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At work there is a worker who often laughs loudly, and often says the same words over and over. And loudly. 

I once asked him why in annoyance.

He claimed it was from a song stuck in his head. I believe he is lying to conceal some form of mental illness. Since I know of no song where any human loudly says "Beep!" or "Whoa!" on a regular basis...though I am sure Kerbaloid will try find it if one even exists.

I almost think for him it's a way to announce his presence so people can acknowledge him or speak to him when he walks past, since he once said "Beep!" And then my name. After that was when I asked him why, to which he gave a lame excuse as far as I am concerned.

He also does not seem to understand social hints. Like if someone is curt with him on the regular, he will still seek them out and try to engage in conversation when it is obvious they do not wish to be bothered.

 

Can anyone diagnose his apparent illness so I can understand how better to deal with him as opposed to me just seeing him as annoying. If he has an actual illness I may pity him and also know how to deal with him.

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1 minute ago, antipro said:

I don't think you can make a serious diagnosis, just by reading 2 lines of a post, but I throw it there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourette_syndrome
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive–compulsive_disorder

I have absolutely no medical training or experience so I’m only guessing here and anything I say should be taken with a huge amount of salt but Im getting the same vibe as you from what op said. 

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1 hour ago, Spacescifi said:

Since I know of no song where any human loudly says "Beep!" or "Whoa!" on a regular basis...though I am sure Kerbaloid will try find it if one even exists.

I can't say about @Kerbaloid, but sounds like a  Symphony No. 9 by Beethoven, he just doesn't have a pipe organ at his place, so tries his best with whistles made of pens.

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1 hour ago, antipro said:

I don't think you can make a serious diagnosis, just by reading 2 lines of a post, however I throw it there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourette_syndrome
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive–compulsive_disorder

 

Thanks. Now I only need to know how to deal with him.

He has this OCD habit of greeting a person in the morning, and then everytime he passes by saying "Wassup *name*" to initiate more conversation, even if it is clearly unwanted.

So far he seems to sort of take the hint, but it must be very ingrained though, as I saw him once almost say something and stop himself with one who did not wish to speak with him. Even then he will still slip up and greet a person twice (which is less than five or six or seven he would otherwise with no hint).

52 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

I can't say about @Kerbaloid, but sounds like a  Symphony No. 9 by Beethoven, he just doesn't have a pipe organ at his place, so tries his best with whistles made of pens.

I know this is a joke, but that is not so.

He prefers mariachi music. 

Which ironically does feature a lot of laughing and random yelling....I never have liked it. No doubt partially because I can't speak that language.

But at least he does not play it often so he has that going for him.

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19 minutes ago, Popestar said:

Sounds like he has Tourette's combined with a bit of Asperger's.

 

So...how do I deal with all of that?

Added to this he out of the blue tells me he was abused by a priest as a child.

I told him I did not want to know more and he goes on to give graphic details upon which I rose from the lunch table and walked away.

So...any suggestions?

Good ones?

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On 12/27/2020 at 11:25 AM, Spacescifi said:

Can anyone diagnose his apparent illness so I can understand how better to deal with him as opposed to me just seeing him as annoying. If he has an actual illness I may pity him and also know how to deal with him.

Well, first and foremost, of course, the important thing to bear in mind is that nobody here is going to be in a position to "diagnose" someone.

We could make some educated guesses... though if we do, it's important to remember that, 1. we're just speculating and could easily be wrong, and 2. this is a person who is just as deserving of respect as anyone else, so I hope we treat the matter accordingly.

It's also worth noting, I think, that "people are different" and just because someone's wired a bit differently doesn't necessarily mean they're "ill" or that that there's something "wrong" with them.  So I hope we won't be too hasty to rush to judgment.

That said,

19 hours ago, Popestar said:

Sounds like he has Tourette's combined with a bit of Asperger's.

...this was kinda my first thought, as well.

I've never known anyone with Tourette's, personally, but from what I've heard, it's seriously un-fun to have, and there's really nothing they can do about it, so if that is the case, all you can do is respect them by not focusing on it.  Same as it would be impolite to stare at someone who has a prominent birthmark on their face.

Asperger syndrome (or other autism-spectrum conditions), I wouldn't call an "illness"-- there's nothing "wrong" with such people, they're just wired differently from neurotypicals and deal with the world in different fashion.

Again, though-- we don't actually know that this person has either of these conditions, so best not to leap to conclusions.

On 12/27/2020 at 11:25 AM, Spacescifi said:

He also does not seem to understand social hints. Like if someone is curt with him on the regular, he will still seek them out and try to engage in conversation when it is obvious they do not wish to be bothered.

This right here is extremely typical of people on the autism spectrum, such as folks with Asperger's.  (Which we still don't know that this guy has, but it's not out of the question.)

"Blindness to social cues" is the key to the condition.  This is not a failing on their part, it's not deliberate, and they're not "less" than other people; but they tend not to pick up on nonverbal cues.  This tends to lead to misunderstandings, because neurotypicals (i.e. most people) think these signs are obvious and tend to leap to the conclusion that the person must be deliberately ignoring them, which makes them mad.  And the Aspergian doesn't realize that the signals are even there, and wonders why people are suddenly so rude for no reason.

A not-uncommon type of situation that Aspergians find themselves in, described in spoiler.

Spoiler

Let's say there's an Aspergian, A, interacting with a neurotypical person, B.

A does something that (unintentionally) annoys B.  B wants to make it clear he's not happy about that, so he "acts annoyed" with A (facial expression, body language, tone of voice, etc.), and assumes that A will "get the message" and knock it off.  A, on the other hand, totally doesn't pick up on any of the "I'm annoyed" signals, and keeps on doing whatever-it-is, under the mistaken impression that they're having a normal friendly interaction and that B is interested.  This goes on until B can't stand it any longer and then blows up angrily at A.

In such a situation, what's going on in B's head is probably something like this:

  • When A starts the behavior:  "Gosh, that's obnoxious.  He must know that would be annoying to anyone, but he clearly doesn't care, so he must be a rude jerk.  I'm annoyed at him."  (goes on to demonstrate annoyance)
  • When A continues the behavior:  "What the hell!  I clearly showed him that this is unwelcome and he's irritating me, but he keeps doing it!  He must really be a serious jerk.  Maybe he's deliberately trying to bother me."
  • B eventually blows up.

Whereas the same interaction, from A's perspective, would look something like this:

  • "Hey, there's something neat I want to share with B because he's my friend!"
  • When B doesn't say anything:  "Oh hey, he's listening!  I should keep talking, this is great!  We're having a nice discussion."  (Totally misses B's "annoyance" signals.)
  • When B eventually blows up:  "What?!  What the hell!  We were having a nice conversation and then suddenly he's exploding at me for no reason!  What a rude, obnoxious jerk!"

And afterwards... if someone tried to explain to B that A just didn't realize he was annoyed, B might react with disbelief-- "Oh come on, I was being so obvious about it, no one could possibly miss  that signal."

And if someone explained to A that B had been annoyed all along and was somehow "sending secret signals" that he was annoyed, A's reaction might be frustration, along the lines of "Well, if he didn't like it, why the heck didn't he say so in the beginning?"

 

19 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

So...how do I deal with all of that?

For the most part, "just take it in stride" would be my advice.  Presumably he is the way he is because he likely can't help it.  If he does this kind of thing routinely, I wouldn't be surprised if he is on the receiving end of social ostracism, which I could easily imagine causing a lot of unhappiness and anxiety-- which, in turn, might express itself in stimulating such behavior.

So "just cope and don't make a big deal of it" would be my suggestion.

If he is on the autism spectrum-- which we don't know, but it seems possible-- then one concrete thing you could do that would help both of you is to be very verbally explicit.  Folks on the autism spectrum tend to miss nonverbal cues, and they tend to interpret what you say very literally.  For example, if something bad happens and you say with exaggerated sarcasm "Oh, great!" ... they might think you're expressing approval, since being "great" is a good thing, right?

So, just be very literal, and say things in literal words.  If he's annoying you about something, just come right out and say "I really don't feel like talking about that, it bothers me."

19 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

I told him I did not want to know more and he goes on to give graphic details upon which I rose from the lunch table and walked away.

...which it sounds like you did do on this occasion, which seems reasonable.  In this case it didn't work, alas.  But that's basically all you can do, I think.

(I wouldn't be surprised if he was honestly completely clueless about how socially inappropriate the subject matter was-- he may have just been lonely and was trying to be friendly.  "Hm, to get someone to want to be your friend, you need to share interesting topics with them.  Hey, I have a good story!"  I could be totally misreading that, but I wouldn't be surprised if it may be the case.)

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@Snark, you said that far more eloquently than I could have.  My basic advice is really to be compassionate, treat this person like a person as you yourself would want to be treated, and speak directly and honestly.  But without sarcasm or anger; they may not truly understand subtext or subtlety

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6 hours ago, Snark said:

Well, first and foremost, of course, the important thing to bear in mind is that nobody here is going to be in a position to "diagnose" someone.

We could make some educated guesses... though if we do, it's important to remember that, 1. we're just speculating and could easily be wrong, and 2. this is a person who is just as deserving of respect as anyone else, so I hope we treat the matter accordingly.

It's also worth noting, I think, that "people are different" and just because someone's wired a bit differently doesn't necessarily mean they're "ill" or that that there's something "wrong" with them.  So I hope we won't be too hasty to rush to judgment.

That said,

...this was kinda my first thought, as well.

I've never known anyone with Tourette's, personally, but from what I've heard, it's seriously un-fun to have, and there's really nothing they can do about it, so if that is the case, all you can do is respect them by not focusing on it.  Same as it would be impolite to stare at someone who has a prominent birthmark on their face.

Asperger syndrome (or other autism-spectrum conditions), I wouldn't call an "illness"-- there's nothing "wrong" with such people, they're just wired differently from neurotypicals and deal with the world in different fashion.

Again, though-- we don't actually know that this person has either of these conditions, so best not to leap to conclusions.

This right here is extremely typical of people on the autism spectrum, such as folks with Asperger's.  (Which we still don't know that this guy has, but it's not out of the question.)

"Blindness to social cues" is the key to the condition.  This is not a failing on their part, it's not deliberate, and they're not "less" than other people; but they tend not to pick up on nonverbal cues.  This tends to lead to misunderstandings, because neurotypicals (i.e. most people) think these signs are obvious and tend to leap to the conclusion that the person must be deliberately ignoring them, which makes them mad.  And the Aspergian doesn't realize that the signals are even there, and wonders why people are suddenly so rude for no reason.

A not-uncommon type of situation that Aspergians find themselves in, described in spoiler.

  Reveal hidden contents

Let's say there's an Aspergian, A, interacting with a neurotypical person, B.

A does something that (unintentionally) annoys B.  B wants to make it clear he's not happy about that, so he "acts annoyed" with A (facial expression, body language, tone of voice, etc.), and assumes that A will "get the message" and knock it off.  A, on the other hand, totally doesn't pick up on any of the "I'm annoyed" signals, and keeps on doing whatever-it-is, under the mistaken impression that they're having a normal friendly interaction and that B is interested.  This goes on until B can't stand it any longer and then blows up angrily at A.

In such a situation, what's going on in B's head is probably something like this:

  • When A starts the behavior:  "Gosh, that's obnoxious.  He must know that would be annoying to anyone, but he clearly doesn't care, so he must be a rude jerk.  I'm annoyed at him."  (goes on to demonstrate annoyance)
  • When A continues the behavior:  "What the hell!  I clearly showed him that this is unwelcome and he's irritating me, but he keeps doing it!  He must really be a serious jerk.  Maybe he's deliberately trying to bother me."
  • B eventually blows up.

Whereas the same interaction, from A's perspective, would look something like this:

  • "Hey, there's something neat I want to share with B because he's my friend!"
  • When B doesn't say anything:  "Oh hey, he's listening!  I should keep talking, this is great!  We're having a nice discussion."  (Totally misses B's "annoyance" signals.)
  • When B eventually blows up:  "What?!  What the hell!  We were having a nice conversation and then suddenly he's exploding at me for no reason!  What a rude, obnoxious jerk!"

And afterwards... if someone tried to explain to B that A just didn't realize he was annoyed, B might react with disbelief-- "Oh come on, I was being so obvious about it, no one could possibly miss  that signal."

And if someone explained to A that B had been annoyed all along and was somehow "sending secret signals" that he was annoyed, A's reaction might be frustration, along the lines of "Well, if he didn't like it, why the heck didn't he say so in the beginning?"

 

For the most part, "just take it in stride" would be my advice.  Presumably he is the way he is because he likely can't help it.  If he does this kind of thing routinely, I wouldn't be surprised if he is on the receiving end of social ostracism, which I could easily imagine causing a lot of unhappiness and anxiety-- which, in turn, might express itself in stimulating such behavior.

So "just cope and don't make a big deal of it" would be my suggestion.

If he is on the autism spectrum-- which we don't know, but it seems possible-- then one concrete thing you could do that would help both of you is to be very verbally explicit.  Folks on the autism spectrum tend to miss nonverbal cues, and they tend to interpret what you say very literally.  For example, if something bad happens and you say with exaggerated sarcasm "Oh, great!" ... they might think you're expressing approval, since being "great" is a good thing, right?

So, just be very literal, and say things in literal words.  If he's annoying you about something, just come right out and say "I really don't feel like talking about that, it bothers me."

...which it sounds like you did do on this occasion, which seems reasonable.  In this case it didn't work, alas.  But that's basically all you can do, I think.

(I wouldn't be surprised if he was honestly completely clueless about how socially inappropriate the subject matter was-- he may have just been lonely and was trying to be friendly.  "Hm, to get someone to want to be your friend, you need to share interesting topics with them.  Hey, I have a good story!"  I could be totally misreading that, but I wouldn't be surprised if it may be the case.)

 

Well said. 

As a Klingon would say, you speak with honor.

And now I will drive my car...with HONOR! For KAHLESS!

But seriously...thank you.

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I don't think asking largely random people on the internet will help you. We can communicate through written words, sure, but it's no replacement for actual direct observation.

On 12/27/2020 at 11:25 PM, Spacescifi said:

At work there is a worker who often laughs loudly, and often says the same words over and over. And loudly. 

I once asked him why in annoyance.

Is it an office setting ? Are you not the only one bothered then ? I can't imagine you'd be annoyed if you were working in a noisy setting to start with (ie. industrial machinery / workshops or construction sites or roads/rails/ports etc).

Honestly if there're other people around both of you maybe you should ask them first, esp. if there are others who've been there longer (with the person you're wondering about). Other than that, if the two of you really only work together without anyone else, then it might be a good idea to open up, perhaps ?

In any case, writing in text about an observed symptom on the internet on a forum about a computer game is not a replacement for directly talking with the involved parties and seek out proper professional help.

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On 12/27/2020 at 7:54 AM, antipro said:

I don't think you can make a serious diagnosis, just by reading 2 lines of a post, however I throw it there:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tourette_syndrome
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsessive–compulsive_disorder

idk but ocd is a lot more severe than people give it credit. im pretty sure my mom has it, and she treats any minor interruption (like misplacing a pen or taking too long on her sudoku) to here routine as a life threatening emergency. then she panics and makes the situation many times worse in the process. eventually she tires herself out and thus ends the crisis, until the next one. with frequencies on the order of hours to a couple days.

id actually shoot for perhaps a mild autism spectrum disorder which would explain the social awkwardness . a pinch of narcissistic personality disorder could explain the need for self announcement (though there are many others that would account for this behavior, like an attachment disorder) . its entirely possible the noises he makes do come from a song or tv show.  there is no limit to the amount of annoyances those two things can produce. he simply appropriated them as his personal theme noises for making entrances. 

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5 hours ago, YNM said:

I don't think asking largely random people on the internet will help you. We can communicate through written words, sure, but it's no replacement for actual direct observation.

Is it an office setting ? Are you not the only one bothered then ? I can't imagine you'd be annoyed if you were working in a noisy setting to start with (ie. industrial machinery / workshops or construction sites or roads/rails/ports etc).

Honestly if there're other people around both of you maybe you should ask them first, esp. if there are others who've been there longer (with the person you're wondering about). Other than that, if the two of you really only work together without anyone else, then it might be a good idea to open up, perhaps ?

In any case, writing in text about an observed symptom on the internet on a forum about a computer game is not a replacement for directly talking with the involved parties and seek out proper professional help.

Not an office. He travels around on a forklift everywhere, but lately not as much.

We do not work together. .but overall he has been quieter for the last two days...probably because his boss has been angry lately. And his best buddy at work angered the same boss too.

He (the beep guy) tends to act out the most oddly with his buddy, where they both make loud silly noises together loudly and he laughs and BEEEPS (that's how he sounds) along with it.

So far so good...although I did hear him make suppressed under his breath 'beep' yesterday while walking.

He just can't quit it LOL.

5 minutes ago, Nuke said:

idk but ocd is a lot more severe than people give it credit. im pretty sure my mom has it, and she treats any minor interruption (like misplacing a pen or taking too long on her sudoku) to here routine as a life threatening emergency. then she panics and makes the situation many times worse in the process. eventually she tires herself out and thus ends the crisis, until the next one. with frequencies on the order of hours to a couple days.

id actually shoot for perhaps a mild autism spectrum disorder which would explain the social awkwardness . a pinch of narcissistic personality disorder could explain the need for self announcement (though there are many others that would account for this behavior, like an attachment disorder) . its entirely possible the noises he makes do come from a song or tv show.  there is no limit to the amount of annoyances those two things can produce. he simply appropriated them as his personal theme noises for making entrances. 

 

LOL.  I don't even have a personal theme. Maybe I should get one LOL?

The only way people know I am near is if they hear classical playing...since just me and one other play it at work.

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18 minutes ago, Spacescifi said:

LOL.  I don't even have a personal theme. Maybe I should get one LOL?

The only way people know I am near is if they hear classical playing...since just me and one other play it at work.

typical conversation normally suffices for most. i usually have the complete opposite problem where i actively avoid detection. fading into the background is something that has become second nature to me. i kind of like it, its sort of like a personal cloaking device.  he could just be a tad extroverted (which usually one does not associate with asds, but i suppose its possible), yet so socially awkward that he has no other means of interacting with the outside world.

i remember when i had my bike gig some 12 years ago (turning boxed bikes into working bikes, the dread of every mechanically inept father on christmas eve). id listen to extreme metal in the back of the stock room.  nobody complained. everybody wanted my job too, and the cashiers used to hit on me a lot. the work was kind of backbreaking though and i had to stop. it helped that i could make a lot of money in a very short amount of time, and that my boss was in another state. 

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1 hour ago, Spacescifi said:

He travels around on a forklift everywhere, but lately not as much.

...

He (the beep guy) tends to act out the most oddly with his buddy, where they both make loud silly noises together loudly and he laughs and BEEEPS (that's how he sounds) along with it.

So far so good...although I did hear him make suppressed under his breath 'beep' yesterday while walking.

He just can't quit it LOL.

Lol, don't forklifts beeps as well ?

idk, honestly I'd be OK with that sort of thing, at least as long as he doesn't jump off a bridge or do something bad with the forklifts, I'd be more worried if someone appears hidden and suddenly made a bad thing happen (oddly enough I often appear hidden). If a tic is what gets his mind in ease, as long as it doesn't threaten anyone's life (including themselves) then I guess you just can't help it.

EDIT : I've only noticed the greeting thing. idk, in my culture it'd be more rude not to greet at all, at least a small head nod or similar in return might be OK IMO. For not understanding others well, I guess the other posts have covered it in more detail, I'm not very good at the whole thing with aspergers or OCD or autism (although one of my nephew is diagnosed with autism - however I'd say this had more with his upbringing perhaps, though his younger brother is normal despite similar situation).

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5 hours ago, YNM said:

Lol, don't forklifts beeps as well ?

idk, honestly I'd be OK with that sort of thing, at least as long as he doesn't jump off a bridge or do something bad with the forklifts, I'd be more worried if someone appears hidden and suddenly made a bad thing happen (oddly enough I often appear hidden). If a tic is what gets his mind in ease, as long as it doesn't threaten anyone's life (including themselves) then I guess you just can't help it.

EDIT : I've only noticed the greeting thing. idk, in my culture it'd be more rude not to greet at all, at least a small head nod or similar in return might be OK IMO. For not understanding others well, I guess the other posts have covered it in more detail, I'm not very good at the whole thing with aspergers or OCD or autism (although one of my nephew is diagnosed with autism - however I'd say this had more with his upbringing perhaps, though his younger brother is normal despite similar situation).

 

Oh there is more to it...at first I just ignored  it all in the hopes that would make it go away.

At first it was not even BEEEP!

It was SHEEEP! And SEEEP!

Take your pick, he would say one of them in a lower but ringing tone and then my name as he passed by.

I stopped ignoring it after he brought up the priest encounter. Since prior to that he had had been singing, "I've been waitin', for someone like you" and then grinned and pointed toward me in a friendly way, no doubt trying to engage me in some sort of conversation, as I was solemn

Death made me act kind of out of character, at first very solemn, then a lot more nice, since prior to the beep guy engaging me a lot a loved one had died and I was rather open talking about it to everyone since I was REALLY out of character.

Now that I am back to normal, I cannot just brush off the annoyance.

But like I said, over the last few days he has toned it way down so I am content.

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On 12/28/2020 at 8:09 AM, Snark said:

"Blindness to social cues" is the key to the condition.  This is not a failing on their part, it's not deliberate, and they're not "less" than other people; but they tend not to pick up on nonverbal cues.  This tends to lead to misunderstandings, because neurotypicals (i.e. most people) think these signs are obvious and tend to leap to the conclusion that the person must be deliberately ignoring them, which makes them mad. 

This sounds like most wife/husband tiffs. So (women would probably agree) most men are probably at least a little Asperger's. My wife has learned to be more verbal (I didn't think that was possible, but it is!) when I don't seem to get the message.

And I's sure glad she doesn't read this forum lol

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2 minutes ago, StrandedonEarth said:

This sounds like most wife/husband tiffs. So (women would probably agree) most men are probably at least a little Asperger's. My wife has learned to be more verbal (I didn't think that was possible, but it is!) when I don't seem to get the message.

I've heard other people make such observations, but it's a whole other degree when you're interacting with someone on the autism spectrum.

Also, bear in mind that Aspergians and other folks on the spectrum are a tiny minority of the population, which means they will always be misunderstood by the large majority.  That can be... very daunting, dispiriting, and anxiety-producing.  Like living in a land where nobody speaks your language, and where you can't really learn theirs.

Social interactions can be a slippery wall to climb, in such a situation.

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10 hours ago, Spacescifi said:

Since prior to that he had had been singing, "I've been waitin', for someone like you" and then grinned and pointed toward me in a friendly way, no doubt trying to engage me in some sort of conversation, as I was solemn

idk, this could very well be a mutual misunderstanding of each other's intent and reaction. You said that he have a buddy, which means that he's capable of doing social interaction I suppose, albeit not in a way that you welcomed. Perhaps you could convince him that you're OK, while also talk to him directly how you like things or not. Failing that, perhaps you can ask a thing or two to his buddy, or your friends about how you feel about him (who knows if they feel the same way you do ?)

7 hours ago, Snark said:

Like living in a land where nobody speaks your language, and where you can't really learn theirs.

Social interactions can be a slippery wall to climb, in such a situation.

I do have to ask though, while the interaction with OP seems to have failed for him, OP says he have a close friend, I wonder if people within the spectrum find it easier to talk among themselves, or does the same difficulty happens ?

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4 hours ago, YNM said:

I do have to ask though, while the interaction with OP seems to have failed for him, OP says he have a close friend, I wonder if people within the spectrum find it easier to talk among themselves, or does the same difficulty happens ?

Caveat about my following comments:  There are people who are so deeply autistic that they have trouble communicating with anyone at all, but I'll assume we're not talking about such folks, and that we're discussing people who are so-called "high functioning" (at the risk of using a vaguely defined and therefore loaded term), such as Asperger's.

Bear in mind that Aspergians aren't any less than neurotypicals (i.e. so-called "normal" people).  They're just different.

They absolutely can have friends (both Aspergian and neurotypical), romantic partners (both Aspergian and neurotypical), happy marriages, well-adjusted children.  There is absolutely no reason why Aspergian can't get along with Aspergian, or Aspergian with neurotypical.

I would say that Aspergians probably find it somewhat easier to talk to other Aspergians-- just as neurotypicals find it easier to talk to neurotypicals-- because they tend to "speak the same language" more naturally.  Just as Aspergians understand better if you give them very literal speech that doesn't depend on nonverbal cues... they also tend to express themselves very directly and literally.  All people naturally talk the way they'd like to be spoken to.  So yes, that "greases the wheels", to a certain extent.

But Aspergians and neurotypicals can totally get along with each other, too.... if both sides are aware of the other's quirks and are making an effort at it.  This is why you can have friendships, romatic relationships, happy marriages, etc. that "cross the border".  If a neurotypical knows that the Aspergian is, in fact, Aspergian, then they can make an effort to express themselves in a way that's likely to be better understood.  It just takes work, is all.

The problem that Aspergians tend to face, on a daily basis, is simply one of brute statistics.  They are a tiny, poorly understood, and largely invisible minority.  In most of their interactions with neurotypicals, the neurotypicals aren't going to make any effort to meet them halfway, or accommodate them in any fashion, or make any allowances.  That's not because neurotypicals are jerks; it's just that most neurotypicals have never heard of Asperger's, aren't close to anyone who has it, and have no idea what to make of this oddball character who seems to keep putting a foot wrong, socially.  It's the fate of any very small minority, really.

This can result in the Aspergian becoming very lonely and isolated.  In the happier cases, a common pattern I've seen is that they'll tend to form a small circle of close friends who "get" them and have known them a long time.

For anyone who may be interested in learning about what life is like from an Aspergian perspective, here are a couple of very well-written books by Aspergians, which are not only enlightening but touching and entertaining (and very funny!) as well:

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13 hours ago, StrandedonEarth said:

This sounds like most wife/husband tiffs. So (women would probably agree) most men are probably at least a little Asperger's. My wife has learned to be more verbal (I didn't think that was possible, but it is!) when I don't seem to get the message.

And I's sure glad she doesn't read this forum lol

It's not. Maybe it's related to the fact that masculinity, as it is teached and pushed on boys, tends to makes you not talking about your feelings, and just expressing them in ways that will make the other in charge of trying to understand what you're expressing. It's not Autism, or Asperger, it's a whole different set of social interaction and how they shape the society. You can learn to own your feelings, and express them in a way that will puts both you and the other in a capacity to understand them, and find a least stressful way of communication.

Aspergers can't do that. They're not wired the same way, they can't learn to understand social cues, or to express their feelings in a way you'll understands them. They can spend a lot of energy trying to understand those social cues, and trying to figure out what is happening depending on some context they can extract from the situation (if other people are laughing, it was probably sarcasm, so I should laugh to). This is why they can't understand sarcasm or irony for instance.

A friend of mine, who works with autistic kids, said that you can't make jokes when interacting with them. They won't get it, and they'll know they're not getting something, so it hurts them. Stop making jokes. You can find different sources of laughter, but most of neurotypical form of humor are lost to them.

Excepting an asperger / autistic person to be able to get social cues at some point, is like expecting a depressed person to be happy. It's not going to happen, and if you maintain those expectations, you're going to hurt them. Just accept what they are, and work form there, you're not the one spending all their energy trying to figures out each and every interaction happening around you, so you can probably spend a little bit of this energy to it.

As for being more verbal about how you feel, I do not think it's a bad thing anyway, so, we should probably do it a bit more, even if not interacting with non-neurotypical people. It makes everything easier (even if, sometimes, a bit awkward).

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