Nuclear engines useless?

[Jacob Kerman]

10 hours ago, Superfluous J said:

using this logic, the Rhino is also useless.

Oh, 100% is not. It's thrust almost doubles when you breach the atmosphere in KSP1, very useful for stations. I would assume the stats are the same for KSP2

[cocoscacao]

7 hours ago, mcwaffles2003 said:

Done

I wonder who the heck put a like on a weird and unrelated comment.

[zeekzeek22]

I'll chime in to agree that there doesn't need to be any balance in Sandbox Mode. It's in the name. The whole resource collection aspect of gameplay will balance things on their own...harvesting nuclear material will probably be a challenge mid-game, as will as tech tree progression. Could be viable that you hoard your nuclear material till you unlock the SWERV, or you spend the first you get on a NERV to enable stuff. I'm really looking forward to the resource system's progression balance, even though I'm sure the balance will be broken at first.

[Starwaster]

On 3/14/2023 at 8:28 AM, Fullmetal Analyst said:

i dont get the point of using nuclear engines, they seem to need huge tanks to get a reasonable amount of dV, and seem to be worse than other engines in general

here some example:

two rockets with same payload, both have almost same dV, but the hydrogen version is a lot bulkier while actually having 100 less dV

(hydrogen / terrier engine)

so whats actually the point of these nuclear engines?

they dont seem really useful compared to other fuel types

 

when i remove the truss and SAS the stats are still ridiculous

You're taking a bare minimum design there which is not good for comparison purposes. You don't really have a payload except for the capsule. Nuclear isn't a PnP option that's going to be great for all designs and it's definitely not always better. 

It's going to be orbital only (or upper stage, at a minimum). It'll probably be assemble-in-orbit where you don't want to be transporting tanks of dense propellants into orbit. In the real world we'd be talking 8-10m diameter. Not sure what that would be for Kerbin.

To give a real world example of where nuclear could have been used for an upper stage, it was considered for use in Saturn V's third stage, the S-IVB. It would have been less powerful than the J2 but would have ditched the LOX tank. The tank would have been lengthened a bit but would have been lighter overall because they would also have ditched the common bulkhead between the H2/O2 tanks. The end result would have been either greater dV because of reduced third stage mass or more payload.

So there are times and designs you'd use nuclear, but you can't just drop it in any design and expect it to be better.

[Bej Kerman]

On 3/14/2023 at 3:18 PM, Strawberry said:

1. Increase the density of hydrogen.

Edited March 21, 2023 by Bej Kerman

[EnderiumSmith]

The SWERV is not comparable to the other engine. its a sneak peak at the start of the far future tier engines. its niche is sending large payloads to the middle system. if stock had an outer system it would be obvious that its not even that good. if you wanted to get to Plock in 1 year then its ISP might as well be 0. you need ISPs of 3000 to start considering that. I expect there to be some divide between the standard tech tree and the far future one.

[magnemoe]

On 3/21/2023 at 11:28 PM, Starwaster said:

You're taking a bare minimum design there which is not good for comparison purposes. You don't really have a payload except for the capsule. Nuclear isn't a PnP option that's going to be great for all designs and it's definitely not always better. 

It's going to be orbital only (or upper stage, at a minimum). It'll probably be assemble-in-orbit where you don't want to be transporting tanks of dense propellants into orbit. In the real world we'd be talking 8-10m diameter. Not sure what that would be for Kerbin.

To give a real world example of where nuclear could have been used for an upper stage, it was considered for use in Saturn V's third stage, the S-IVB. It would have been less powerful than the J2 but would have ditched the LOX tank. The tank would have been lengthened a bit but would have been lighter overall because they would also have ditched the common bulkhead between the H2/O2 tanks. The end result would have been either greater dV because of reduced third stage mass or more payload.

So there are times and designs you'd use nuclear, but you can't just drop it in any design and expect it to be better.

This. Its like using an mainsail engine in an smallest rocket to orbit contest.  Its designed to push heavy stuff hard. Nuclear thermal and especially the SWERV is for pushing heavy stuff hard. 
In late game they would be niche as they can melt ice for hydrogen, who makes sense if you are a billion km from civilization. 
We will get orion pulse nuclear engines who are much heavier but beat them in trust and isp, but the fuel is nuclear bombs, not something you mass produce if you don't have an serious industrial base. 
This is that you need to build an industrial base at Jool who you need to go interstellar. 
 

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

13 hours ago, magnemoe said:

This is that you need to build an industrial base at Jool who you need to go interstellar

All of which (and related mechanics) will turn KSP2 into an actual game. 

- and something fun to play! 

 

 

 

 

(Says the guy clutching the rabbit's foot) 

[Starwaster]

On 4/9/2023 at 6:40 PM, magnemoe said:

This. Its like using an mainsail engine in an smallest rocket to orbit contest.  Its designed to push heavy stuff hard. Nuclear thermal and especially the SWERV is for pushing heavy stuff hard. 
In late game they would be niche as they can melt ice for hydrogen, who makes sense if you are a billion km from civilization. 
We will get orion pulse nuclear engines who are much heavier but beat them in trust and isp, but the fuel is nuclear bombs, not something you mass produce if you don't have an serious industrial base. 
This is that you need to build an industrial base at Jool who you need to go interstellar. 
 

Also, another thing to consider is that NERV is based on late 50s technology and SWERV represents technology that is still on the drawing board for us even now.