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The Elcano Challenge : Ground-based circumnavigation

Fengist
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Fengist

Fengist

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UPDATED... ok, so getting back to this the other day didn't work as planned, but I did make it back.

Congratulations to Claw for THREE!.. wait three??? more orbital bodies. (I only got two posted. I'll have to do a badge up for Ike) It seems my challenge has created an exploration monster. Just one question, who's been moderating the forums during your sabbatical jk ;) By the way, I'm getting concerned. There is this bacterial infection of farm animals called Listeriosis that causes them to walk in circles... have you been checked lately?

Congratulations to The Cardinal for completing a circumnavigation of Minmus. While everyone else does these circumnavigation in a dune buggy, I love seeing a proper land yacht. Welcome to our most exclusive and humble group of explorers.

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Well, now this has been stickied I should circumnavigate a body to honor it ;P

Probably doing a Kerbin water circumnavigation, using your mod. Perhaps even my yacht with minor tweaks. Have to think about a solution for that land bridge though...

EDIT: Fengist, am I allowed to put a buggy on the yacht, and then when I have arrived at the land bridge use it to cross the land? I do leave the yacht at that point, this is why I ask the question

EDIT EDIT: I reread the text and apperently I don't need to cross the part for master mariner, I'll do that instead XD

Glad you got that figured out but just thinking about it... I'd say that I'd allow that. While this challenge is more about 'rover' exploration, in the spirit of true explorers, they used some pretty creative ways of surmounting obstacles and didn't confine themselves to one vehicle to do so. Since this rover would technically be a part of the boat until undocked then it's not like you dropped it somewhere and met up with it. It would have been part of the vessel the entire trip and therefore, I'd have no problem with it. However, if your rover starts to look more like a Matryoshka doll than a rover, I might have to draw the line somewhere.

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RexKramer

RexKramer

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Fengist

Here's my entry for a circumnavigation of Kerbin. This is a 100% stock game, by the way.

"Amphib2"

Crew: 6 max. I sent her out with a crew of 4.

Max Sailing Speed (full fuel): 38m/s

Max Sailing Speed (1/3 fuel): 52-55m/s

Sailing Range: 400km+

Max Water Entry Speed: 6m/s. Anything faster risks damaging an engine.

Max Beaching Speed: I usually tried for 6-8m/s or less for safety. I accidentally hit a beach at ~26m/s once, and came out OK. Scared me though.

Circumnavigation: Westbound, mostly over water. There was one place where land travel was required, plus I cut across the continent south of KSC to see how well it would perform on land. (Not too well..)

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There's a few notes if you go to the Imgur album.

I did lose some parts along the way, but thankfully had some redundancy. For electric generation I started with 2 RTGs, 12 OX-STATs, 4 Gigantors, plus of course the 4 jet engines also produce electricity while running. Along the way I managed to lose both RTGs (very early) and 6 of the OX-STATs. The RTGs were mounted in the cargo bay, which I suspect doesn't completely protect it's occupants like I expected. The loss of the 6 OX-STATS came at a particularly bad time- right before crossing the land bridge. The land bridge is a ways north of the equator, so solar efficiency isn't great. I still had the Gigantors, but they can't be used while in motion of course.

To make up for the loss of the RTGs and OX-STATs, I ran the jet engines at low thrust while going across the land bridge. Worked out OK. A further help was the fact that I had finally figured out that the vessel was much more durable without full fuel tanks (duh).

Hope this doesn't disqualify me, but I did mount one aerodynamic surface, a rudder, on the back of the ship. This was because there aren't any water rudders in stock KSP, and I needed something to help keep the ship pointed forwards at 'high' speeds. 'High' meaning a whopping 38m/s. I can assure you that this vessel is in no way even remotely capable of flight. Even catching a little air going over hills almost always resulted in broken wheels at best, often followed by explosions and a debris field.

One lesson I learned is that redundancy is a good thing- I was lucky I had so many sources of electric generation since I lost so many. The first thing I would change on a rebuild is to add batteries. Amphib2 only had a single giant battery, if I had lost that I don't think I could have completed the trip. So next time (Laythe, here I come..) I'll put at least two batteries on board, maybe more. They don't weigh much, and it's hard to operate without them.

My biggest concern by far during this journey was having a crew member accidentally fall into the cargo bay. I didn't include any ladders to get out, so that would have been a big problem. I decided to have a rule of nobody moving on the roof while the cargo doors were open.

Anyway, almost all of the travel was over water. I did cut across the continent south of KSC to test out the rover capabilities before I got too far into the journey, but otherwise I stuck to the water.

Oh, the whole journey took about 48 days, but a lot of that was spent refilling the fuel tanks.

Edited by RexKramer
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nigelvn

nigelvn

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Not neccesarily, just keep adding boosters until you get there. You can also consider assembling it in orbit (if not the tank, the ship which brings and lands it)

Anyway, I am about 1/3 of my Kerbin circumnavigation

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damerell

damerell

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well there goes my plans of circumnavigating Minmus in a rather large tank, complete with 203mm naval guns.

I submit that we now have two (two!) working Project Orion mods and with those you can send anything you like to Minmus.

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Claw

Claw

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My Kerbin circumnavigation is done! And i finished it with a bang!

Oh nice. I remember seeing you start with this thing. Was curious if it would make it all the way around. It's a rather unique design. Nice job. :)

Congratulations to Claw for THREE!.. wait three??? more orbital bodies. (I only got two posted. I'll have to do a badge up for Ike) It seems my challenge has created an exploration monster. Just one question, who's been moderating the forums during your sabbatical jk ;) By the way, I'm getting concerned. There is this bacterial infection of farm animals called Listeriosis that causes them to walk in circles... have you been checked lately?

Haha. Yeah, I've been missing from the forums a bit lately. :) Working on a variety of projects at the moment, and even Elcano has slowed a little. :(

I think my friends are planning an intervention this weekend. :o

Cheers,

~Claw

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HighExplosives12

HighExplosives12

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Not neccesarily, just keep adding boosters until you get there. You can also consider assembling it in orbit (if not the tank, the ship which brings and lands it)

Anyway, I am about 1/3 of my Kerbin circumnavigation

Actually, the 203 mm guns are from the Naval artillery system mod and have a mass of nearly 200 tons (and are huge), plus the tank body.... HOW am i going to get all that to minmus?

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Did you want to (re-)create the Landkreuzer P. 1000 Ratte?

Sort of.... but with antisat missiles, and you can guess what mods I am going to be using... (also the Ratte had twin 280 mm guns, my creation has twin 203mm main guns from the Naval Artillery Systems mod)

Edit: So many edits...

Edited by HighExplosives12
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RexKramer

RexKramer

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I'm currently working on a Laythe circumnavigation (stock). One of the many problems I've encountered is determining wether my vessel can make the next waypoint before running out of fuel. There are some large stretches of open water on Laythe, and I'm finding that just 'eyeballing' distances on the map may not be sufficient. I have a pretty good idea what the range of my ship is, now I just need accurate distance estimates between points on Laythe.

I've been using a formula to calculate the distance in radians between two points, and multiplying by the radius to come up with a great circle distance. (I'm still 'eyeballing' the headings..) You just need to know the Lat/Long coordinates of your waypoints, and let a spreadsheet do the math (or do it by hand if you're a sadist). The Lat/Longs need to be converted to radians for the formula to function, but again that's something the spreadsheet will do painlessly.

The formula to determine the radians between two points is ArcCos(SinLat1*SinLat2 + CosLat1*CosLat2*Cos(absolute difference Lon1-Lon2)) Again, the Lat and Long values need to be converted to radians. Once you know how many radians separate two points, just multiply by the radius of the body (Laythe's radius is 500km). You should end up with a pretty accurate distance value.

I couldn't remember how to do this from navigation courses I took decades ago, so Wikipedia to the rescue! Here's the link to the relevant formulas to determine great circle distance- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great-circle_distance

Lat/Longs for celestial bodies can be found at kerbalmaps.com. Hope this helps someone. Laythe is turning out to be a real challenge.

- - - Updated - - -

Here's a couple of challenges that came up on my Laythe attempt-

First, the rockets I used to get my floating rover to Laythe didn't want to decouple properly. Spent a couple of hours figuring out how to get them off the ship.

Next, I deployed my drill and discovered that it didn't reach the ground! Missed by about a half meter! After a few minutes of panic, I tried lowering the landing gear, which was just enough to allow the drill to reach the surface. Phew!

Finally, one the drill reached the surface, I was informed there was no ore, because I was in Laythe's Sagen Sea biome. Uh oh, I landed with just enough fuel to sputter to this hunk of land and refuel. I headed inland, and after about 2km finally found a spot the game would allow me to drill (with landing gear retracted of course).

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Fengist

Fengist

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For water circumnavigations, can we use Better Buoyancy?

Yep.

This is not edited, this rover is just that freaking fast, and stable! It is a pleasure to drive, and should be coming out on the spacecraft exchange soon!

umm... dood. I'm seeing a LOT of images where you're not even on the ground. On a body like Minmus or even the Mun, I can understand, but on Kerbin? This is a ground circumnavigation and from the looks of your screenshots, you spent half the time in the air. Plus, you've got two control surfaces that are at 45 degree angles. Combine those with body lift and jet engines and yea... it'll fly real well.

I mean let me be honest here... catching some air off a hill is one thing. Being able to fly over KSC is entirely different.

I dunno... this one has me perplexed.

Fellow circumnavigators, your comments on this entrant to our group?

update... complete.

Claw, the Ike badge is finally up and I've got you added as first on the list. Congrats again, it's now official.

Rex - The rudder... noooo problem. Unless you've found a way to roll 90 degrees and fly with one wing, I seriously doubt you'd catch any air with that. Besides, the rudders for my part pack are just a tweaked canard. Rudders are perfectly fine. I think, I'm not sure, but I think you're the first to complete a circumnavigation using Mk3 parts. It looks like you discovered the disadvantages of stock tires with big rovers. Congrats on your circumnavigation and welcome brother. I shall be awaiting your next adventure.

I couldn't remember how to do this from navigation courses I took decades ago, so Wikipedia to the rescue! Here's the link to the relevant formulas to determine great circle distance-

Funny you mention that. In my recent adventures into modding (plugins to be precise) I needed exactly that calculation. Here's some C# code for anyone who mods and wants a great circle.


        public static double ToRad(double degrees)
        {
            return degrees * (Math.PI / 180);
        }

        public static double ToDegrees(double radians)
        {
            return radians * 180 / Math.PI;
        }

        public static double ToBearing(double radians)
        {
            // convert radians to degrees (as bearing: 0...360)
            return (ToDegrees(radians) + 360) % 360;
        }

        public static double CalculateDistance(Vessel v, double DesLat, double DesLong)
        {
            double PlanetRadius = v.orbitDriver.orbit.referenceBody.Radius;
            double deltaLat = ToRad(DesLat - v.latitude);
            double deltaLong = ToRad(DesLong - v.longitude);
            var a = Math.Sin(deltaLat / 2) * Math.Sin(deltaLat / 2) + Math.Cos(v.latitude * Math.PI / 180) * Math.Cos(DesLat * Math.PI / 180) * Math.Sin(deltaLong / 2) * Math.Sin(deltaLong / 2);
            var c = 2 * Math.Atan2(Math.Sqrt(a), Math.Sqrt(1 - a));
            var Distance = (PlanetRadius * c);

            return Distance;
        }

Simply plug in the vessel you want to calculate from, the destination lat and long and it returns the distance.

Edited by Fengist
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RexKramer

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Rex... - I think, I'm not sure, but I think you're the first to complete a circumnavigation using Mk3 parts. It looks like you discovered the disadvantages of stock tires with big rovers.

Heh, yeah the stock tires certainly are challenging. Although my entry was primarily intended for water travel anyway, my brief experience over land certainly convinced me that the medium wheels on MK3 parts was a recipe for, uh, not being on land any longer than absolutely necessary.

As for using the MK3 parts, feel free to laugh, but I brought basically the same vessel to Laythe. It was my most expensive single launch to date, and still required two refuelings before leaving Kerbin, plus another top off reaching Jool. I did at least replace the rover wheels with aircraft landing gear, but that was more of an effort to increase efficiency, I still miss having rover wheels that can go in reverse. I did manage to increase the range to about 750km. Still not enough to do a true Equatorial circumnavigation of Laythe (the big stretch of water is about 1125km..), but should be enough for a respectable entry. I hope.

By the way, Fengist, I will probably be shooting for a Master Mariner badge at some point also. I think my first Kerbin entry doesn't qualify due to cutting across the continent south of KSC, so I'll probably be redoing the Kerbin circumnavigation at some point.

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Fengist

Fengist

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By the way, Fengist, I will probably be shooting for a Master Mariner badge at some point also. I think my first Kerbin entry doesn't qualify due to cutting across the continent south of KSC, so I'll probably be redoing the Kerbin circumnavigation at some point.

Yep, I kinda have to keep firm on rules like that. I bend them once and I'll have to bend them every time. That one little cross country west of KSC locked you into a land circumnavigation. I'll be watching for your next attempt though.

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nigelvn

nigelvn

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Fellow circumnavigators, your comments on this entrant to our group?

as I did some circumnavigations, I think I am allowed to share my opinion: I agree that the craft must have been airborne for quite some time, however I also vaguely understand why it was, maybe as it went so fast, but maybe as you can safely go faster while airborne. Hope this helps in your decision, Fengist.

Furthermore, I am around 2/3 around Kerbin for my master mariner badge. I had some delay as I have been a bit ill, it will probablybe online before monday.

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Van Disaster

Van Disaster

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While I thought my craft was pushing the boundaries a little - although my aero stuff is aimed at the ground and I pull about as much air as a rally car - let alone that one, I have to give the guy props for keeping it in one piece generally.

Investigating mods to help me resuscitate my long-overdue trip.

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damerell

damerell

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While I thought my craft was pushing the boundaries a little - although my aero stuff is aimed at the ground and I pull about as much air as a rally car - let alone that one, I have to give the guy props for keeping it in one piece generally.

Ah, well, as I read it, there was a lot of F5ery (which is permitted, but I don't hold with).

One reason I stuck to craft propelled only by contact with the ground is there could be less doubt about the division between jumping and flying. http://imgur.com/a/xKlgY#5 shows the craft in the air, pointed upwards, jet engines running. I fear I agree with calling foul.

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Van Disaster

Van Disaster

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Ah. Well I think I F9'd once after something went horribly wrong with the game, but yeah that wasn't quite in the spirit of things so I tried to be cautious.

A quick vid of the craft in question might resolve any worries: found a vid of a test run of mine from when people were saying mine was a plane :P

Edited by Van Disaster
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nigelvn

nigelvn

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I'll first make sure to grab fengist's attention XD

Fengist

The water circumnavigation of Kerbin is done. I thought I was further away from the end, and that I had more screenshots (apperently the more screenshots I have, the more time it takes for me to get into the mood of uploading to imgur). I'm not making a separate topic again, as not many people seem to read it in the section, this is more the target group. Anyway here it is:

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That's it, this should be master mariner.

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Bubbadevlin

Bubbadevlin

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Hmm wow.. did not even think of lifting fuselages.. dang... And yes, i know most of the pics are me in the air, but that is because they are the cool pics :confused: I will tell you that that thing cannot get airborne without a hill, and that on none of my jumps did i point the craft purposely upward for more air time. Also more often than not they were at 1/3 throttle, so i was being pushed with about 40 kn of thrust, for a 20 ton rover. When i am taking pics i am not usually piloting, and most of those i had to quick-load after them. I can provide a download if you even care, to show it is a rover. However, i really don't want to have to redo that, as fun as it was. ;.;

Edited by Bubbadevlin
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Fengist

Fengist

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Hmm wow.. did not even think of lifting fuselages.. dang... And yes, i know most of the pics are me in the air, but that is because they are the cool pics :confused: I will tell you that that thing cannot get airborne without a hill, and that on none of my jumps did i point the craft purposely upward for more air time. Also more often than not they were at 1/3 throttle, so i was being pushed with about 40 kn of thrust, for a 20 ton rover. When i am taking pics i am not usually piloting, and most of those i had to quick-load after them. I can provide a download if you even care, to show it is a rover. However, i really don't want to have to redo that, as fun as it was. ;.;

If you say you did it honestly, I shall agree with the others and believe you.

Updates

Bubbadevlin - Congratulations fellow circumnavigator. You have endured the endless whine of jet engines and discovered the secret of putting enough intakes to the bottom of your rover that they look like paint. Well done and welcome to the brotherhood.

nigelvn - Master Mariner - Wow bud, just the image of all those parachutes lagged my machine. My sincere congratulations on achieving Master Mariner. You have earned the fear of every barnacle and a place of honor amongst your fellow circumnavigators. Well done.

Edited by Fengist
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