[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[TheBigOne]

I also have this problem. I have the parts, but nothing shows up on the window ( with the little green cube). I shot a kerbal into orbit just to see the mechanic and he has been there for 50 days now and nothing. He is a regular gray suit. I have KSP 1.0 with only KER and this installed. does it only work in career mode?

I'll add that I also have KER installed (as well as EVE and MKS/OKS).

[therealcrow999]

Do a test using orange kerbals. That should tell if it is a USI-LS issue.

I'm sure orange Kerbals will work. My thing is, what if I want to send up a single pod with regular Kerbal to a space station, with not tank, and I want to use Ship Manifest. Will them be in the yellow be to much for them to use Ship Manifest, because they are a little grouchy from hunger, lol.

- - - Updated - - -

Well nevermind, Ship Manifest seems to be working OK for now. I am able to activate the icon and bring it up.

[Fedge]

Ok, so I did a completely fresh install of KSP (redownloaded from steam). Launched a pod in sandbox mode, everything seems ok. Then I copied the USI/LS folder into GameData. Relaunched the game, launched the stock Kerbal-X with 3 grey suits. "Supplies" do not show up in the resource list. The green LS button shows a completely empty window. I can see the 3 LS containers in the parts catalog in the VAB, but other than that, the mod does not appear to be working for me.

Am I missing some sort of dependency? Log file available upon request.

EDIT: Ok, I feel dumb. I installed Module Manager and that seems to have fixed the empty/blank life support window. D'oh

Edited April 28, 2015 by Fedge

[Torham234]

Yeah, that fixes it. Put the dll into the zip folder, or include install instructions at the first page, people might not think of it( I didn't ).

[rabidninjawombat]

Will orange suits be susceptible to death if the death option is activated?

Was curious on this as well. Also if we arnt using the death option, if there is a way or option to make the Orange Suits susceptible to hunger the same way all the other Kerbals are too. (Hey Jeb get hungry too! )

[Granite]

ModuleManager fixed it.

I've now noticed that EC usage doesn't scale properly with time warp. 1000x warp consumes only .01 EC/s/kerbal.

[Ballistic Idiot]

You're a mad man, Rover. You gave me ways build Kerbal Kennels on other planets and how you give me a way to starve them.

I mean feed them.

Feed them.

Yeah.

[Akira_R]

Is there a way to adjust how long with no supplies before kerbals starve?

I see a SupplyTime parameter in the settings cfg but don't know what it does or what units it's in

[Svm420]

Is there a way to adjust how long with no supplies before kerbals starve?

I see a SupplyTime parameter in the settings cfg but don't know what it does or what units it's in

Its seconds

[Akira_R]

Its seconds

makes sense, and is that what controls how long with out supplies before kerbals starve?

[vardicd]

saw the video.. it was working. The pioneer module goes straight from mulch to supplies.

Oh okay. Thanks.

[Svm420]

makes sense, and is that what controls how long with out supplies before kerbals starve?

Yes 60s*60m*6h*15days get you 32 thousand and something which is what the default is.

[jbmacnchee]

Was curious on this as well. Also if we arnt using the death option, if there is a way or option to make the Orange Suits susceptible to hunger the same way all the other Kerbals are too. (Hey Jeb get hungry too! )

I just wanted to +1 this train of thought, as I personally like the possibility of death for all kerbals. I do like how kerbal-esque this life support system is out of the box, but I tend to torture myself with hardmode and the possibility of losing Jeb forever due to life-support is good motivation for proper design beforehand. I looked through configs and it seems you can't adjust anything concerning how this mod affects orange suits (unless I missed something). I'd like to be able to change that in configs.

Also, amazing work in general! Your mods are absolutely amazing. You have my loyalty

[KerbMav]

N.O.M.S. - glorious.

[eddiew]

They are still in the pod. they still take up a seat. But they can't fly, can't EVA, and essentially do the Kerbal equivelant of spinning around in their office chairs, refusing to work, until resupplied. This is a design consideration in that all of us, at least once, has just flat out done goofed, and lost a whole colony of Kerbals via glich or other sadness. Yes, death/despawn will be an option. Not the default one tho. Mechanics wise, they are transformed into tourists, as they are essentially on a self-imposed vacation

Once resupplied, they are happy as clams and will return to work.

This. Is. Perfect!

One of the biggest griefs I've had to date with life support mods is that it discourages rescue missions. Command pods are very good at surviving misjudged landings, but if your crew is beyond Mun, the odds of them both crashing and surviving until rescue have been basically none. The approach you've taken here allows for failure without disaster, and makes it much easier to resist the lure of the F9 key

Although I think I'll consider them to be in photosynthesis mode rather than just on strike xD Do probe cores still work as a control mechanism when kerbals are in this state? I feel like there's space saving to be had by only packing supplies for the outbound trip...

[Torham234]

This. Is. Perfect!

Although I think I'll consider them to be in photosynthesis mode rather than just on strike xD

I was thinking that they might just fall into deep hibernation when starved.

[Blue_J]

So, I've look at it a bit, and I have a few comments:

First, this looks like a solid concept for a LS-lite. I would agree that it is stock-like in its simplicity and softer consequences. There's a lot of potential here, especially since it's integrated with the USI mods.

Second: There are plans to add additional supply containers/form factors, yes? I ask because right now, there's a pretty big leap between the standard 15-day window in a pod with no supplies and the 1.25 m pod that can keep a single kerbal fed for over a year. Empty mass seems pretty low, so only packing what you need isn't too bad, but the 1.25 m inline part is a fairly large volume if you only need 10 extra days or so of supplies.

Third, I would very humbly suggest that you may want to reconsider adding supplies to command modules, and possibly decreasing the "no-snack" window if you want the balance to be the same. Just because a kerbal can work for 15 days without snacks doesn't mean it would be particularly thrilled about the idea. Sending him/her off with no supplies whatsoever for a short trip to the Mun doesn't feel quite right. Moreover, if you're shooting for stock-like integration into career mode, I don't know that it makes sense to go from "supplies don't matter" to "supplies on everything" around the time you start getting interested in Minmus.

Anyway, I'm excited about this because I really like the USI suite of stuff, and having an integrated life support system makes sense. Thanks, RD.

[eddiew]

I was thinking that they might just fall into deep hibernation when starved.

Same thing in my head It's been theorised for years that they photosynthesise, but I like the idea that it's an emergency backup plan to eating and would just keep them ticking over while they sleep for N years on the way to Jool

Now the real question... is whether RoverDude made it possible to lock off supply cannisters so as to force the crew to hibernate. Or whether they could be stored in a ship section that doesn't have crossfeed, and manually pumped over to the accessible area when you need to wake them up. A week's worth of rations for a Duna run? Suuuuure... we can do that. Or maybe not, I dunno, I can't test these things out while at work

*edit*

Note that a Kerbal about to starve (i.e. no supplies for 15 days) will in fact happily break open said biscuit tin. witty screen message included

Dang. Always one step ahead of me... he giveth with one hand, and with the other he taketh away.

(I actually love this idea even more.)

Edited April 29, 2015 by eddiew

[RoverDude]

I just wanted to +1 this train of thought, as I personally like the possibility of death for all kerbals. I do like how kerbal-esque this life support system is out of the box, but I tend to torture myself with hardmode and the possibility of losing Jeb forever due to life-support is good motivation for proper design beforehand. I looked through configs and it seems you can't adjust anything concerning how this mod affects orange suits (unless I missed something). I'd like to be able to change that in configs.

Also, amazing work in general! Your mods are absolutely amazing. You have my loyalty

Thanks And sure, if someone logs a github issue for this I will add it in.

This. Is. Perfect!

One of the biggest griefs I've had to date with life support mods is that it discourages rescue missions. Command pods are very good at surviving misjudged landings, but if your crew is beyond Mun, the odds of them both crashing and surviving until rescue have been basically none. The approach you've taken here allows for failure without disaster, and makes it much easier to resist the lure of the F9 key

Although I think I'll consider them to be in photosynthesis mode rather than just on strike xD Do probe cores still work as a control mechanism when kerbals are in this state? I feel like there's space saving to be had by only packing supplies for the outbound trip...

Yep that was the idea. RE probes - I'm disinclined to allow probe control just to plug this hole.

So, I've look at it a bit, and I have a few comments:

First, this looks like a solid concept for a LS-lite. I would agree that it is stock-like in its simplicity and softer consequences. There's a lot of potential here, especially since it's integrated with the USI mods.

Second: There are plans to add additional supply containers/form factors, yes? I ask because right now, there's a pretty big leap between the standard 15-day window in a pod with no supplies and the 1.25 m pod that can keep a single kerbal fed for over a year. Empty mass seems pretty low, so only packing what you need isn't too bad, but the 1.25 m inline part is a fairly large volume if you only need 10 extra days or so of supplies.

Third, I would very humbly suggest that you may want to reconsider adding supplies to command modules, and possibly decreasing the "no-snack" window if you want the balance to be the same. Just because a kerbal can work for 15 days without snacks doesn't mean it would be particularly thrilled about the idea. Sending him/her off with no supplies whatsoever for a short trip to the Mun doesn't feel quite right. Moreover, if you're shooting for stock-like integration into career mode, I don't know that it makes sense to go from "supplies don't matter" to "supplies on everything" around the time you start getting interested in Minmus.

Anyway, I'm excited about this because I really like the USI suite of stuff, and having an integrated life support system makes sense. Thanks, RD.

tbh, I really wanted to avoid cluttering up the RMB of pods with extra resources and such. Tho I will very likely add a series of radial NOMS containers

And you are welcome

[JumpsterG]

I'm starting to use this mod now and it's fantastic! I would love to take advantage of mulch recyclers and a method to generate supplies off-kerbin, but I'm hesitant to install Kolonization Systems. As awesome as it is, I don't necessarily want to add more resources to scan for beyond ore (at least for now; once I've played for a while, I'll enjoy tweaking the difficulty up).

So, I'm putting together a pair of quick MM cfgs to add space for mulch to the supplies containers and to add an ore-to-supplies conversion to the stock ore converter. Will share for folks thinking like me.

---

Edit:

Ok, not a good idea to keep mulch around on ships without a converter, so I left the supply containers alone. Instead, I've modified the Hitchhiker module, adding supplies and mulch capacity (just the equivalent of the small 1.25 supply tank) along with a 50% efficient mulch-to-supplies converter (Takes as much power as the ore converter and the same amount of time... Not sure if this should be tweaked). This makes the hitchhiker more than just a 4-seat sardine can, it now serves as a life support module (and all those snack and rubbish bins in the IVA now make sense, too).

Also, I made the ore-to-supplies converter use a 1:2 ratio. Note that ore masses 10x what supplies do, so 10kg of ore becomes 2kg of supplies with the remaining mass thrown away as waste. This was chosen mostly arbitrarily, so hopefully balance isn't too weird. For half a moment, I was tempted to have the converter turn ore into mulch instead of supplies, adding a second conversion step... Then I remembered that I wanted to simplify the system, not make it more complicated.

I implemented both of these changes into separate cfgs. If you want one and not the other (Maybe you don't care about managing mulch or don't feel that ore should be used for supplies), you can remove the cfg you don't like.

Anyway! Link:

-Adds Supplies, Mulch, and Converter to Hitchhiker

-Adds Ore-To-Supplies Converter to ISRU part:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100018891/UmbraSpaceIndustryAdjustments/UmbraSpaceIndustryAdjustments.zip

Drop UmbraSpaceIndustryAdjustments and the ModuleManager dll (If you don't already have it) into your GameData folder and you're good to go!

License: No restrictions.

Edited April 29, 2015 by JumpsterG
Link!

[Enceos]

For some bizarre reason USI Life Support makes crafts in orbit spin and disintegrate.

I have only the MKS and USI LS installed here:

When I remove USI LS, vessels behave normally. The window in the corner is an Exception Detector which shows the NRE and errors logged.

Here's my output_log.txt

[RoverDude]

You loaded a training scenario. How does it behave outside of that?

[Enceos]

You loaded a training scenario. How does it behave outside of that?

Outside of scenarios systems are nominal. There's no kraken shaking the craft on load.

[Gfurst]

Outside of scenarios systems are nominal. There's no kraken shaking the craft on load.

The kraken strikes again XD

Second: There are plans to add additional supply containers/form factors, yes? I ask because right now, there's a pretty big leap between the standard 15-day window in a pod with no supplies and the 1.25 m pod that can keep a single kerbal fed for over a year. Empty mass seems pretty low, so only packing what you need isn't too bad, but the 1.25 m inline part is a fairly large volume if you only need 10 extra days or so of supplies.

Yes please, some smaller bags or canisters? May suggestion searching up that model for bags that someone did for TACLS. Pluss Universal Storage containers too, they tend to be the best at sercive module occupancy stuff. (though I think I already saw something like that for USI a long time ago)

Third, I would very humbly suggest that you may want to reconsider adding supplies to command modules, and possibly decreasing the "no-snack" window if you want the balance to be the same. Just because a kerbal can work for 15 days without snacks doesn't mean it would be particularly thrilled about the idea. Sending him/her off with no supplies whatsoever for a short trip to the Mun doesn't feel quite right. Moreover, if you're shooting for stock-like integration into career mode, I don't know that it makes sense to go from "supplies don't matter" to "supplies on everything" around the time you start getting interested in Minmus.

Yeah I too, feel strangely by this gap between no food need to huge quantities. I suppose there's always a way to configure things for our OCD's sake?

[JumpsterG]

I've made a couple ModuleManager cfgs in case anyone wants a simple mulch container/converter and ore-to-supply converter.

I've modified the Hitchhiker module, adding supplies and mulch capacity (just the equivalent of the small 1.25 supply tank) along with a 50% efficient mulch-to-supplies converter (Takes as much power as the ore converter and the same amount of time... Not sure if this should be tweaked). This makes the hitchhiker more than just a 4-seat sardine can, it now serves as a life support module (and all those snack and rubbish bins in the IVA now make sense, too).

I've added to the existing ISRU converter an option to convert ore to supplies using a 1:2 ratio. Note that ore masses 10x what supplies do, so 10kg of ore becomes 2kg of supplies with the remaining mass thrown away as waste. This was chosen mostly arbitrarily, so hopefully balance isn't too weird. For half a moment, I was tempted to have the converter turn ore into mulch instead of supplies, adding a second conversion step... Then I remembered that I wanted to simplify the system, not make it more complicated.

I implemented both of these changes into separate cfgs. If you want one and not the other (Maybe you don't care about managing mulch or don't feel that ore should be used for supplies), you can remove the cfg you don't like.

Anyway! Link:

-Adds Supplies, Mulch, and Converter to Hitchhiker

-Adds Ore-To-Supplies Converter to ISRU part:

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/100018891/UmbraSpaceIndustryAdjustments/UmbraSpaceIndustryAdjustments.zip

Drop UmbraSpaceIndustryAdjustments and the ModuleManager dll (If you don't already have it) into your GameData folder and you're good to go!

License: No restrictions.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah I too, feel strangely by this gap between no food need to huge quantities. I suppose there's always a way to configure things for our OCD's sake?

There is a settings file for the mod to reduce the time to starve and it should be fairly easy to whip up a ModuleManager cfg to add the Supplies resource to all crewed capsules. I'll take a stab at it in a bit, even.