[1.12.x] USI Life Support

[Crabman]

8 minutes ago, Kermanzooming said:

That was it! Activating habitat increased the habitat value, although it's still different from the VAB value. Also the supplies number is higher on the launchpad than on the VAB...

If you write a good report showing steps to reproduce, what was expected and what happened, maybe even attaching a save file it will be easier to help

[DStaal]

@RoverDude - Given the currently common 'Habitation isn't the same as it was in VAB!  Help!' requests, I've added a GitHub feature request: Have a column in the VAB LS window that shows the habitation+bonuses separately from the habitation without the activatable bonuses.  The idea here is to increase discoverablity: Currently, people see that the habitation in the VAB is different then on the launchpad, figure something is wrong, and come ask for help.  With an extra column, they are more likely to notice that 'wait, it matches *this* column, but not that one', and figure that there is some way to get it to match the other - which leads to 'doing things with parts': pulling up right-click menus and looking at options.  Even if they don't make that connection, they'll likely come here and ask 'how to I 'activate habitation' or whatever you decide to call it, and get a quick answer.  (And after a couple of times it's been answered, Google will be able to point them to it.)

Related and optional - but would also increase discoverablity and planning - would be to add another section (or another column to the part breakdown) to the VAB LS window with the EC costs of activating the habitation bonuses.  Then people will be able to see there's a trade-off, and that EC is being used for something.  (I'm guessing this is technically redundant data to the standard part info, but I'm not sure.)

[Damon]

5 hours ago, Kermanzooming said:

That was it! Activating habitat increased the habitat value, although it's still different from the VAB value. Also the supplies number is higher on the launchpad than on the VAB...

I think your Kerbals are scared to death so they dont eat as much 

[Kermanzooming]

16 hours ago, DStaal said:

Related and optional - but would also increase discoverablity and planning - would be to add another section (or another column to the part breakdown) to the VAB LS window with the EC costs of activating the habitation bonuses.  Then people will be able to see there's a trade-off, and that EC is being used for something.  (I'm guessing this is technically redundant data to the standard part info, but I'm not sure.)

That would be very useful; I haven't found in the stock parts (e.g. The Hitchhiker) any reference to the EC cost of habitation.

[Uberns]

On 11/5/2016 at 9:48 AM, DStaal said:

@RoverDude - Given the currently common 'Habitation isn't the same as it was in VAB!  Help!' requests, I've added a GitHub feature request: Have a column in the VAB LS window that shows the habitation+bonuses separately from the habitation without the activatable bonuses.  The idea here is to increase discoverablity: Currently, people see that the habitation in the VAB is different then on the launchpad, figure something is wrong, and come ask for help.  With an extra column, they are more likely to notice that 'wait, it matches *this* column, but not that one', and figure that there is some way to get it to match the other - which leads to 'doing things with parts': pulling up right-click menus and looking at options.  Even if they don't make that connection, they'll likely come here and ask 'how to I 'activate habitation' or whatever you decide to call it, and get a quick answer.  (And after a couple of times it's been answered, Google will be able to point them to it.)

Related and optional - but would also increase discoverablity and planning - would be to add another section (or another column to the part breakdown) to the VAB LS window with the EC costs of activating the habitation bonuses.  Then people will be able to see there's a trade-off, and that EC is being used for something.  (I'm guessing this is technically redundant data to the standard part info, but I'm not sure.)

I came to this thread to ask the very question you are referring to.  I thought you only had to "turn on" deployable habitats and never thought to try right clicking on my hitch hiker module.  In retrospect this makes sense. But when your first figuring out USI-LS, Habitation is something I like to call the "elusive obvious".

[bertibott]

hi,

I have noticed some strange behaviour concerning the habitation time.

I have built a small craft consisiting of a Mk1-2 Command pod and a Mk2 Lander can. They are connected via docking ports. I have put hte craft on a trajectory to Minmus and it is well underway. The habitation timer reads 35 days everything seems to be working as it should. So now I go into timewarp and wait for about an hour and all of a sudden the habitation timer switches to  23days. I wait another hour or so and it switches to 10 days (at wich point the mission is doomed to fail...).

Any ideas? Am I missing something?

[monstah]

I haven't used USI-LS ever since habitation time was just future talk. This seems very interesting

[eberkain]

Anyone else getting the the life support parts listed under fuel tanks?

[Deimos Rast]

2 hours ago, eberkain said:

Anyone else getting the the life support parts listed under fuel tanks?

Personally, I would prefer they be there.

----

Anyone getting NRE's on the lifesupport window on starting a new game? In the past it's been a lack of USI tools, but I have it installed. Hmm, seems to be in the editor to.

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at LifeSupport.LifeSupportMonitor_SpaceCenter.GuiOn () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at LifeSupport.LifeSupportMonitor_SpaceCenter.GenerateWindow () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at LifeSupport.LifeSupportMonitor_SpaceCenter.OnWindow (Int32 windowId) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at UnityEngine.GUILayout+LayoutedWindow.DoWindow (Int32 windowID) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at UnityEngine.GUI.CallWindowDelegate (UnityEngine.WindowFunction func, Int32 id, UnityEngine.GUISkin _skin, Int32 forceRect, Single width, Single height, UnityEngine.GUIStyle style) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
 
(Filename:  Line: -1)

 

Edited November 10, 2016 by Deimos Rast

[RoverDude]

2 minutes ago, Deimos Rast said:

Personally, I would prefer they be there.

----

Anyone getting NRE's on the lifesupport window on starting a new game? In the past it's been a lack of USI tools, but I have it installed. Hmm, seems to be in the editor to.

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at LifeSupport.LifeSupportMonitor_SpaceCenter.GuiOn () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at LifeSupport.LifeSupportMonitor_SpaceCenter.GenerateWindow () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at LifeSupport.LifeSupportMonitor_SpaceCenter.OnWindow (Int32 windowId) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at UnityEngine.GUILayout+LayoutedWindow.DoWindow (Int32 windowID) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at UnityEngine.GUI.CallWindowDelegate (UnityEngine.WindowFunction func, Int32 id, UnityEngine.GUISkin _skin, Int32 forceRect, Single width, Single height, UnityEngine.GUIStyle style) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
 
(Filename:  Line: -1)

 

Provide more specific repro steps and I'll look

[Waxing_Kibbous]

2 hours ago, eberkain said:

Anyone else getting the the life support parts listed under fuel tanks?

Yes, both there and the new LS tab. Personally I think this is way too cluttered in the end game with all fuel tanks unlocked, best in it's own tab only.

[Deimos Rast]

40 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

Provide more specific repro steps and I'll look

Thanks for the response.

Log here if curious (there are other NRE's in the log, specifically related to the Workshop mod, but those are confined to creating a new game and the difficulty screen).

It seems to have sorted itself out after (just a guess) I unlocked Survivability, or within the time it took me to progress that far (~30min-1hr maybe).

Repro steps were:

- Start a new game.

- Click Life Support button in KSC > Cause above NRE.

- Go to editor.

- Click Life Support button > Cause below NRE.

Like I said, things seem fine now, but I seem to recall this happening last time I installed it as well (although then it never self-corrected).

GUI Error: You are pushing more GUIClips than you are popping. Make sure they are balanced)
 
(Filename:  Line: 422)

NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object
  at LifeSupport.LifeSupportMonitor_Editor.GenerateWindow () [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at LifeSupport.LifeSupportMonitor_Editor.OnWindow (Int32 windowId) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at UnityEngine.GUILayout+LayoutedWindow.DoWindow (Int32 windowID) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
  at UnityEngine.GUI.CallWindowDelegate (UnityEngine.WindowFunction func, Int32 id, UnityEngine.GUISkin _skin, Int32 forceRect, Single width, Single height, UnityEngine.GUIStyle style) [0x00000] in <filename unknown>:0 
 
(Filename:  Line: -1)

 

[steve_v]

5 hours ago, eberkain said:

Anyone else getting the the life support parts listed under fuel tanks?

2 hours ago, Waxing_Kibbous said:

Yes, both there and the new LS tab. Personally I think this is way too cluttered in the end game with all fuel tanks unlocked, best in it's own tab only.

Read up a couple pages, this should fix it:

[PocketBrotector]

On 11/9/2016 at 5:52 PM, eberkain said:

Anyone else getting the the life support parts listed under fuel tanks?

There is a typo in several of the LS part configs that causes them to be listed under Fuel Tanks (I think that Tanks is a fallback category when parts aren't correctly assigned one). I reported it here. And here is a workaround for the meantime:

@PART[Fert_Tank_*,USILS_*,*MiniPack,LS_Tank_*]{
  %category = none // Fix typo: "Category" should be "category"
}

 

Edited November 11, 2016 by PocketBrotector

[Vorg]

Do the recyclers apply base wide or just the craft they are attached to?

[Vorg]

On 10/22/2016 at 2:36 PM, Norcalplanner said:

I found that adding two of the NoM 25000s radially works really well.  Have one run in agroponics mode, and the other run in recycler mode.  Although the recycler mode uses a lot of power (34 EC/s iirc) it recycles at 77%, meaning that your Kerbals go through less than half the food compared to using the MPL recycler (which admittedly is much cheaper in EC use).  If you're looking to do more than four Kerbals, however, you'll probably need a total of 4 of the radially attached NoM 25000s, with two set at each function. Going to use a heck of a lot of power when transiting the dark side of a planet, though.

Went back a bit in the thread trying to understand LSI, so maybe something changed since that post. The Nom's don't have modes.

 

On 10/22/2016 at 3:43 PM, RoverDude said:

Side note.  There's a pretty hefty mass disparity between a recycler and a greenhouse for comparable volume (i.e. greenhouses weigh a lot less since they are mostly empty space, vs. equipment).  As a result, I'll be moving the current modules to legacy (to avoid breaking saves), and update with dedicated greenhouse vs hab parts to address this.  I also have a smaller model that I had not released yet to stand in as a recycler.

So the Recyclers RT-500 and RT-5000 are being removed? In the current CTT, you get the 5000 before any green houses. So while it may be heavy, it extends the nom's output. Looking at supply tank mass, maybe it is better just to take more supplies. Does it still work out that way when figured against a Nom's? Because in that case, there would be a cumulative as the mulch is getting reused effectively adding a lot more supplies per mulch.

[Norcalplanner]

14 hours ago, Vorg said:

Went back a bit in the thread trying to understand LSI, so maybe something changed since that post. The Nom's don't have modes.

 

So the Recyclers RT-500 and RT-5000 are being removed? In the current CTT, you get the 5000 before any green houses. So while it may be heavy, it extends the nom's output. Looking at supply tank mass, maybe it is better just to take more supplies. Does it still work out that way when figured against a Nom's? Because in that case, there would be a cumulative as the mulch is getting reused effectively adding a lot more supplies per mulch.

Yeah - RoverDude has removed that ability for balancing purposes. My old post is outdated now.

[Gilph]

Hi, Wanted to ask a terminology question.

I believe I understand the difference between converter, recycling and efficiency parts. I know that documentation is on the way to help in figuring out things.  I am have some issues with the difference between the "Life Support" button and the "Recycler" button, and the efficiency parts function.

I made a Kerbin Space Station with Tundra parts:

• 1 Pioneer Module
• 1 Expandable Habitat 2.75 as Habitat
• 1 Expandable Habitat 2.75 as Greenhouse
• 2 Nom o Matic 25000
• 1 RT-5000 Recycling Module
• 1 MPL-LG-2
• 1 Kerbitat as Recycler

Ok...issues and questions

1. Pioneer - There is a start recycler button.  If I start it, no lowering of supplies in LS Status, so it looks like it is not recycling.
2. Expandable Habitat 2.75 as Greenhouse - It states it's an efficiency part, but to what? the Nom o Matics? Enabling this shows no difference in LS Status.
3. RT-5000 and MPL-LG-2 - The button says "Start Life Support". Should it really say "Start Recycler"? Is there any difference in the terms? Starting it lowers supplies per day.
4. Kerbitat - It does have a Start Recycler button, and it does lower supplies consumption.  That looks normal to me.

TIA for your help.

Edit: For item 1, Loaded the exact same craft file onto launchpad five times, using 1-5 kerbals.  Supplies were reduced correctly when I started Pioneer recycling.  Went back to the one in orbit, turned everything off and just tried to enable Pioneer recycling and nothing happened.  Seems like this one is blarged somehow. Not sure why yet.

Edited November 14, 2016 by Gilph
Testing

[danielboro]

im starting to move a 1.1.3 save to 1.2.1
I'm getting sum missing parts warning

is ther a recommended way for the move?

will copying the missing .cfg be all I need?

[Gilph]

1 hour ago, danielboro said:

im starting to move a 1.1.3 save to 1.2.1
I'm getting sum missing parts warning

is ther a recommended way for the move?

will copying the missing .cfg be all I need?

I just finished my move.  It really depends on the mods you have and where the missing parts belong.  I had to delete several of my craft to get it to run, once I moved all the Kerbals back to Kerbin.  I moved my crafts from old to new and loaded them in VAB to see which ones would not load due to missing parts, which helped a little.

[danielboro]

USILS.Greenhouse
its missing from the new USILS but I have it on all long term bases and ships(duna mission, still at duna ,tourist tugs and all space stations )
at the moment I think my best option is to copy Greenhouse.cfg to the new game
but is this the recommended thing to do?
(its my first cross version migration. I started playing at 1.0.5 and I lost my save wen the computer died ten started a new on at 1.1.1).

Edited November 14, 2016 by danielboro

[Terwin]

2 minutes ago, danielboro said:

USILS.Greenhouse
its missing from the new USILS but I have it on all long term bases and ships
at the moment I think my best option is to copy Greenhouse.cfg to the new game
but is this the recommended thing to do?
(its my first cross version migration. I started playing at 1.0.5 and I lost my save wen the computer died ten started a new on at 1.1.1).

Roverdude said that the USI mods were getting a save-breaking over-haul for KSP 1.2

I believe the recommended approaches for migrating are:

1) start a new game

2) recover or abandon all craft with USI parts and expect them to vanish due to missing parts when you upgrade

3) stay on 1.1.3 with the old version until you are ready to start a new game.

[danielboro]

thanks

so since I think that the Weill problem of 1.1.3 is horrendous (cross out 3)my next thing is
research how to edit the save game to get a working ship

p.s.
hyper edit to get new ships is an option I suppose
I have some planning to do

thanks

[Terwin]

1 hour ago, danielboro said:

p.s.

hyper edit to get new ships is an option I suppose
I have some planning to do

thanks

You know, in 1.2 you the cheat menu can hyper-edit objects into any orbit you like, so if you bring home all your kerbals, you can replace everything by just placing landing-capable bases in orbit of each body where you currently have a base.(you may need to re-scan for resources however, no idea if that will change at all)

[NeuroticGamer]

On 10/31/2016 at 3:48 PM, Tarheel1999 said:

Provided that you don't exceed the crew capacity of the habitat. The cupolas have a crew capacity of 1.   And will provide a multiplier of 1.5 with one kerbal, 1.25 with two kerbals, etc.  Also two cupolas for two kerbals only provide a multiplier of 1.25 for each kerbal instead of the expected 1.5 for each. 

Wait, what?  I'm a math major and I don't understand the last sentence.  What is the hidden factor you didn't mention?  Why would you ever add the second cupola if you get screwed out of the multiplier after the first one?  The first 2 statements make sense mathematically.