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[1.12.x] Cryogenic Engines: Liquid Hydrogen and Methane Rockets! (August 13, 2024)

Nertea

By Nertea
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Ignalion

Ignalion

Posted
Posted (edited)

I don't know how much support for the mod is there, but maybe someone can help me figure this out.

Some crafts give me a very bad stutter. Like every second game is freezeing for another second. I have one of this crafts, it's only 40 parts all stock except for the first stage which is 4 H250-32 and Engine plate with 3 MR-420 Methane engines but the stutter is SO bad even on the launchpad. If I launch the craft (which is a pain) it goes that way all the time until the moment I decouple that stage, immediately all the stutter disappears.

Having less cryotanks (for instance) reduces stutter, adding makes it worse. Removing engines also helps but not fully.

Also, that happens not with every craft, some have 100+ parts and it doesn't seem to affect it.

I know it's not much but maybe any help how to debug this issue?

 

UPD: I actually have another question for this one. The only reason I use CryoTanks for this one is because I cannot set Methane for usual Rockomax Jumbo-64, there is only Lqd Hydrogen option. Is that supposed to be that way, i.e. only hydrogen and no Methane for stock tanks?

Edited by Ignalion
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mikegarrison

mikegarrison

Posted
Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Ignalion said:

The only reason I use CryoTanks for this one is because I cannot set Methane for usual Rockomax Jumbo-64, there is only Lqd Hydrogen option. Is that supposed to be that way, i.e. only hydrogen and no Methane for stock tanks?

Vanilla KSP does not have methane. But it also doesn't have hydrogen. The only fuel is "liquid fuel", which is presumed to be RP-1 (kerosene). If you have a liquid hydrogen option for your fuel tank, that's coming from a mod.

Edited by mikegarrison
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Ignalion

Ignalion

Posted
Posted
13 minutes ago, mikegarrison said:

Vanilla KSP does not have methane. But it also doesn't have hydrogen. The only fuel is "liquid fuel", which is presumed to be RP-1 (kerosene). If you have a liquid hydrogen option for your fuel tank, that's coming from a mod.

Mhm, B9PartSwitch, it should be (should it?) the part of this mod. Anyway, I can edit tanks so I guess that's where it from. I can choose Cryogenic but it only has LiquidHidrogen but not Methane...

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mikegarrison

mikegarrison

Posted
Posted
17 minutes ago, Ignalion said:

Mhm, B9PartSwitch, it should be (should it?) the part of this mod. Anyway, I can edit tanks so I guess that's where it from. I can choose Cryogenic but it only has LiquidHidrogen but not Methane...

If you are editing the mods, that could be the cause of your issues. All I can say is that I have never had the problem you describe.

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Ignalion

Ignalion

Posted
Posted
On 7/16/2024 at 2:57 AM, Cheesecake said:

@IgnalionWhich Fuel-Switch-Mods do you have? CryoTanks? InterstellarFuelTanks? RealFuels?
I think your stuttering are coming from another mod oder mod-incompatibility.  A log and/or a modlist would be helpful.

Sure! I have full Nertea setup but I don't think I have any others fuel mods.

Here is CKAN export list: 

All Y'All (AllYAll 1:0.11.21)
AT Utils (AT-Utils v1.10.1)
B9 Part Switch (B9PartSwitch v2.20.0)
Background Resources (BackgroundResources 1:v0.18.0.0)
Breaking Ground (BreakingGround-DLC 1.7.1)
Chatterer (Chatterer 0.9.99)
ClickThrough Blocker (ClickThroughBlocker 1:2.1.10.21)
Community Category Kit (CommunityCategoryKit v112.0.1)
Community Resource Pack (CommunityResourcePack v112.0.1)
Community Tech Tree (CommunityTechTree 1:3.4.4)
Community Terrain Texture Pack (CommunityTerrainTexturePack 1:1.0.5)
Configurable Containers (ConfigurableContainers 2.6.2.1)
Contract Configurator (ContractConfigurator v2.9.2.0)
Contract Pack: Exploration Plus (ContractConfigurator-ExplorationPlus 2.0.1)
Contract Pack: Field Research (ContractConfigurator-FieldResearch 1.2.2)
Contract Pack: Tourism Plus (ContractConfigurator-Tourism 1.5.2)
Crew R&R (CrewQueueTwo 1.1.11.4)
Crowd Sourced Science (CrowdSourcedScience v6.1)
Cryo Tanks (CryoTanks 1.6.5)
Cryo Tanks Core (CryoTanks-Core 1.6.5)
Cryogenic Engines (CryoEngines 1:2.0.6)
Custom Barn Kit (CustomBarnKit 1.1.22.0)
Deployable Engines Plugin (DeployableEngines 1.3.1)
Distant Object Enhancement /L (DistantObject v2.1.1.16)
Distant Object Enhancement /L default config (DistantObject-default v2.1.1.16)
Docking Port Alignment Indicator (DockingPortAlignmentIndicator 6.10.0.0)
Dynamic Battery Storage (DynamicBatteryStorage 2:2.2.5.0)
Easy Vessel Switch (EVS) (EasyVesselSwitch 2.3)
Far Future Technologies (FarFutureTechnologies 1.2.0)
Final Frontier (FinalFrontier 1.10.0-3485)
Firespitter (Firespitter v7.17)
Firespitter Core (FirespitterCore v7.17)
Firespitter Resources config (FirespitterResourcesConfig v7.17)
Harmony 2 (Harmony2 2.2.1.0)
Heat Control (HeatControl 0.6.1)
IndicatorLights (IndicatorLights 1.8.3)
Kerbal Atomics (KerbalAtomics 1:1.3.3)
Kerbal Attachment System (KAS 1.12)
Kerbal Inventory System (KIS 1.29)
Kopernicus Planetary System Modifier (Kopernicus 2:release-1.12.1-205)
KSP Community Fixes (KSPCommunityFixes 1.35.2)
Making History (MakingHistory-DLC 1.12.1)
ModularFlightIntegrator (ModularFlightIntegrator 1.2.10.0)
Module Manager (ModuleManager 4.2.3)
Near Future Construction (NearFutureConstruction 1.3.1)
Near Future Electrical (NearFutureElectrical 1.2.3)
Near Future Electrical Core (NearFutureElectrical-Core 1.2.3)
Near Future Exploration (NearFutureExploration 1.1.2)
Near Future IVA Props (NearFutureProps 1:0.7.1)
Near Future Launch Vehicles (NearFutureLaunchVehicles 2.2.0)
Near Future Propulsion (NearFuturePropulsion 1.3.5)
Near Future Solar (NearFutureSolar 1.3.2)
Near Future Solar Core (NearFutureSolar-Core 1.3.2)
Near Future Spacecraft (NearFutureSpacecraft 1.4.3)
Outer Planets Mod (OuterPlanetsMod 2:2.2.10)
Outer Planets Mod - Parallax with Scatters (Parallax-OuterPlanetsMod v1.0.5)
Parallax (Parallax 2.0.6)
Parallax - Stock Planet Textures (Parallax-StockTextures 2.0.0)
Parallax - Stock Scatter Textures (Parallax-StockScatterTextures 2.0.1)
PlanetShine (PlanetShine 0.2.6.6)
PlanetShine - Default configuration (PlanetShine-Config-Default 0.2.6.6)
Precise Maneuver (PM) by Morse (PreciseManeuver 2:2.4.99.0-adoption)
RasterPropMonitor (RasterPropMonitor 1:v0.31.13.4)
RasterPropMonitor Core (RasterPropMonitor-Core 1:v0.31.13.4)
Real Plume (RealPlume 2:v13.3.2)
Real Plume - Stock Configs (RealPlume-StockConfigs v4.0.8)
ReStock (ReStock 1.4.5)
ReStock Extra - Rigid Legs (RestockRigidLegs 1.4.5)
Restock Waterfall Expansion (RestockWaterfallExpansion 3.1.0)
ReStock+ (ReStockPlus 1.4.5)
RSMP (SRBWaterfallEffects 2:4.0.1)
SCANsat (SCANsat v20.4)
Scatterer (Scatterer 3:v0.0876)
Scatterer Default Config (Scatterer-config 3:v0.0876)
Scatterer Sunflare (Scatterer-sunflare 3:v0.0876)
SmokeScreen - Extended FX Plugin (SmokeScreen 2.8.14.0)
Space Dust (SpaceDust 0.4.4)
SpaceTux Library (SpaceTuxLibrary 0.0.8.6)
Stockalike Mining Extension (StockalikeMiningExtension 1.1.6)
Stockalike Station Parts Expansion Redux (StationPartsExpansionRedux 2.0.10)
Stockalike Station Parts Expansion Redux - Internal Spaces (StationPartsExpansionRedux-IVAs 2.0.10)
System Heat (SystemHeat 0.6.0)
System Heat - Nuclear Engine Configuration (SystemHeat-FissionEngines 0.6.0)
System Heat - Nuclear Reactor Configuration (SystemHeat-FissionReactors 0.6.0)
System Heat - Resource Converter Configuration (SystemHeat-Converters 0.6.0)
System Heat - Resource Harvester Configuration (SystemHeat-Harvesters 0.6.0)
TAC Life Support (TACLS) (TACLS 1:v0.18.0.0)
TextureReplacer (TextureReplacer v4.5.3)
Toolbar (Toolbar 1:1.8.1.1)
Toolbar Controller (ToolbarController 1:0.1.9.11)
Waterfall - Restock (WaterfallRestock 0.2.3)
Waterfall Core (Waterfall 0.9.0)
WaypointManager (WaypointManager 2.8.4.2)

 

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  • 1 month later...
Nertea

Nertea

Posted
  • Author
Posted

Released 2.0.7

  • Updated CryoTanks to 1.6.6
  • Updated ModuleManager to 4.2.3
  • Updated DynamicBatteryStorage to 2.3.1
  • Updated B9PartSwitch to 2.20.0
  • Bumped KSP versioning
  • Fixed incorrect title for Iguanodon 1.875m variant
  • Add support for VABOrganizer
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urturino

urturino

Posted
Posted (edited)

I love Cryogenic Engines, but i have a proposition for a minor modification.

I also have CryoEngines Extensions and the mods work good together except for one tiny thing.

The Sustainer Hydrolox Engine "Etna" have a worst vacuum  ISP (410) than the Booster Hydrolox Engine Kunlun (412), which is also lighter.

So there is no real reason to use the Etna over the Kunlun. Should we raise the Etna ISP a bit , maybe to 420 (still less than Fuji, but more than Kunlun and Arso)?

 

Spoiler

bG5x15S.png

 

Edited by urturino
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Cheesecake

Cheesecake

Posted
Posted (edited)
57 minutes ago, urturino said:

I love Cryogenic Engines, but i have a proposition for a minor modification.

I also have CryoEngines Extensions and the mods work good together except for one tiny thing.

The Sustainer Hydrolox Engine "Etna" have a worst vacuum  ISP (410) than the Booster Hydrolox Engine Kunlun (412), which is also lighter.

So there is no real reason to use the Etna over the Kunlun. Should we raise the Etna ISP a bit , maybe to 420 (still less than Fuji, but more than Kunlun and Arso)?

 

  Hide contents

bG5x15S.png

 

Since the Kunlun comes with CryoEngines Extension, this should be adapted rather than the other way around.
But the Etna has a different role than the Kunlun.
The Kunlun is intended more for a conventional rocket, as it produces quite a lot of thrust at a low weight. The first rocket stage is dropped relatively early here. Therefore, the Isp in the atmo is higher here than with the Etna and the T/W ratio is also much better. A relatively powerful upper stage is also required here to get the payload into orbit.


The Etna is used more like the Delta IV or Ariana 5/6 and has a rather poor T/W ratio. In most cases, boosters are required to support the launch. However, it should run as long as possible, while the upper stages are usually not as powerful. The first stage then brings the payload into orbit almost on its own, or at least to a very high orbit, where the weaker upper stage (as mentioned above), which then usually has a higher ISP and burn time, then has enough time to bring the payload to the desired orbit.


For comparison:
Delta IV
Thrust of the first stage: 3140kn
Burn time: 245s
Thrust of the second stage: 110kn
Isp: 462
Burn time: 850-1125s

Falcon 9:Thrust of the first stage: 7600kn
Burn time: 162s
Thrust of the second stage: 934kn
Isp: 348
Burn time: 397s

Source: Wikipedia

Edited by Cheesecake
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IBIS-CELL

IBIS-CELL

Posted
Posted

Good day! I would like to inquire if you have any plans to add engines and an external air cooler similar to the HOTOL liquid air cycle engine, such as the Rolls-Royce RB545. Additionally, I am interested in a cooler for incoming air for further use as an oxidizer. Would you consider incorporating these technologies into your projects?

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Nertea

Nertea

Posted
  • Author
Posted

CryoEngines 2.0.8

  • Removed Deinonychus and Eagle engines
    • They are soft-deprecated so crafts in flight will not be affected.
    • The reasons for doing this should be evident.
    • They may be replaced in the future by different models.
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Ryaja

Ryaja

Posted
Posted
21 hours ago, Nertea said:

CryoEngines 2.0.8

  • Removed Deinonychus and Eagle engines
    • They are soft-deprecated so crafts in flight will not be affected.
    • The reasons for doing this should be evident.
    • They may be replaced in the future by different models.

Sticking to 2.0.7 I guess. 

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funnelton

funnelton

Posted
Posted
23 hours ago, Nertea said:

CryoEngines 2.0.8

  • Removed Deinonychus and Eagle engines
    • They are soft-deprecated so crafts in flight will not be affected.
    • The reasons for doing this should be evident.
    • They may be replaced in the future by different models.

stupid idea maybe, but rename their replacements something like... Churchill? Roosevelt? 

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Luneo Lucy

Luneo Lucy

Posted
Posted
On 2/2/2025 at 5:39 AM, Nertea said:

CryoEngines 2.0.8

  • Removed Deinonychus and Eagle engines
    • They are soft-deprecated so crafts in flight will not be affected.
    • The reasons for doing this should be evident.
    • They may be replaced in the future by different models.

Nice

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Rakete

Rakete

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 2/2/2025 at 5:39 AM, Nertea said:

CryoEngines 2.0.8

  • Removed Deinonychus and Eagle engines
    • They are soft-deprecated so crafts in flight will not be affected.
    • The reasons for doing this should be evident.
    • They may be replaced in the future by different models.

eeehhh... for non-americans... What's the reason behind it? Maybe I live under a rock, but for me as un-knowing european the reason is not evident. Can you please explain? Are those engines broken? Never notices any issue - but maybe i haven't used them... don't know... Or is it something political I am not aware of as a non-native-english-speaker?

Edited by Rakete
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MinimumSky5

MinimumSky5

Posted
Posted
54 minutes ago, Rakete said:

eeehhh... for non-americans... What's the reason behind it? Maybe I live under a rock, but for me as un-knowing european the reason is not evident. Can you please explain? Are those engines broken? Never notices any issue - but maybe i haven't used them... don't know... Or is it something political I am not aware of as a non-native-english-speaker?

It's a politics issue, which due to forum rules I can't discuss. Look at the real life inspiration of those rockets, the owner of the company that made them, and bear in mind that Nertea is Canadian.

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dave1904

dave1904

Posted
Posted

Please reconsider. Rocket existence in general is an ethical problem because we all know that it wasn't the demand for satellite TV that paid for the development. They are inanimate objects without opinions. 

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Rakete

Rakete

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 2/8/2025 at 4:55 PM, MinimumSky5 said:

It's a politics issue, which due to forum rules I can't discuss. Look at the real life inspiration of those rockets, the owner of the company that made them, and bear in mind that Nertea is Canadian.

ewwhhh okay... I am not aware of every post some billionaire releases - or what he does (on our side of the atlantic, we don't keep track on everything happening in northern america atm, due to many things going on here right now... I mean... the vote in a very populated european country right now is just 2 weeks away...), but i guess it's up to the mod creator to remove content of his mod as he/she pleases. So i am okay with that. But i am kinda confused, that today's politics affect mod contents, as the engineers who developed those engine's aren't responsible on anything the company owner might post or say - they don't neccessarily share his opinion but just developed stuff as part of their job to keep their families supplied with housing, food and stuff...

If we followed this thought consequently, we'd have to remove a lot of the rocketry content of the mods due to their origin. There's are some mod parts, that refer to rockets that were developed by engineers working for the most evil dictator in mankind's history with parts manufactured by prisoners working under worst possible inhuman conditions. Some others engines in some mods are parts of rocketry of mass destruction (those which refer to nuclear missiles), and so on...

 

But all in all: I am okay with the decision, due to the fact, that the owner of the mod decides which content he wants to to be in his mod.  Just my 2ct...

Edited by Rakete
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lordcirth

lordcirth

Posted
Posted
On 7/15/2024 at 8:12 PM, Ignalion said:

I don't know how much support for the mod is there, but maybe someone can help me figure this out.

Some crafts give me a very bad stutter. Like every second game is freezeing for another second. I have one of this crafts, it's only 40 parts all stock except for the first stage which is 4 H250-32 and Engine plate with 3 MR-420 Methane engines but the stutter is SO bad even on the launchpad. If I launch the craft (which is a pain) it goes that way all the time until the moment I decouple that stage, immediately all the stutter disappears.

Having less cryotanks (for instance) reduces stutter, adding makes it worse. Removing engines also helps but not fully.

Also, that happens not with every craft, some have 100+ parts and it doesn't seem to affect it.

I know it's not much but maybe any help how to debug this issue?

 

UPD: I actually have another question for this one. The only reason I use CryoTanks for this one is because I cannot set Methane for usual Rockomax Jumbo-64, there is only Lqd Hydrogen option. Is that supposed to be that way, i.e. only hydrogen and no Methane for stock tanks?

Are the other craft that work fine using different engines? What's the simplest test case you can create that narrows down the difference?

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harveylates

harveylates

Posted
Posted (edited)
On 2/2/2025 at 3:39 PM, Nertea said:

CryoEngines 2.0.8

  • Removed Deinonychus and Eagle engines
    • They are soft-deprecated so crafts in flight will not be affected.
    • The reasons for doing this should be evident.
    • They may be replaced in the future by different models.

this decision is getting a lot of riddicule online this my have not been a good decsion and you should reconsider as this could break a lot of saves and that could ruin your reputation  but untill you snap out of this i am sticking to an older version :angry: 

Edited by harveylates
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Mr. Kerbin

Mr. Kerbin

Posted
Posted
50 minutes ago, harveylates said:

this decision is getting a lot of riddicule online this my have not been a good decsion and you should reconsider as this could break a lot of saves and that could ruin your reputation  but untill you snap out of this i am sticking to an older version :angry: 

Uh… It won’t break any saves,

On 2/1/2025 at 8:39 PM, Nertea said:

They are soft-deprecated so crafts in flight will not be affected.

In other words, they exist, simply not available for use in the VAB or SPH

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Pxtseryu

Pxtseryu

Posted
Posted
4 hours ago, harveylates said:

this decision is getting a lot of riddicule online this my have not been a good decsion and you should reconsider as this could break a lot of saves and that could ruin your reputation  but untill you snap out of this i am sticking to an older version :angry: 

lol

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