[1.12.x] Cryogenic Engines: Liquid Hydrogen and Methane Rockets! (August 13, 2024)

[betus]

I just started a new career mode with CE. I am trying to use LH2+OX on an FL-T400 stock tank, but I do not see an option for LH2+OX. Does something need to be upgraded? What am I missing?

[Cheesecake]

2 hours ago, betus said:

I just started a new career mode with CE. I am trying to use LH2+OX on an FL-T400 stock tank, but I do not see an option for LH2+OX. Does something need to be upgraded? What am I missing?

Do you have all dependencies in your GameData?

Quote

Dependencies (Required and Bundled)

• Module Manager 
• B9 Part Switch
• Community Resource Pack
• Cryo Tanks
• Deployable Engines
• Dynamic Battery Storage

 

[betus]

On 7/28/2023 at 2:33 PM, Cheesecake said:

Do you have all dependencies in your GameData?

 

yes, I have all of the dependencies.

[Cheesecake]

5 hours ago, betus said:

yes, I have all of the dependencies.

Log?

[betus]

4 hours ago, Cheesecake said:

Log?

ksp.log

[Cheesecake]

22 hours ago, betus said:

ksp.log

Could be Interstellar Fuel Switch. Interstellar Fuel Switch does the same thing as Cryotanks. So the two could get in each other's way. You should only use one of the two.

[Sans]

On 8/9/2023 at 5:41 PM, Cheesecake said:

Could be Interstellar Fuel Switch. Interstellar Fuel Switch does the same thing as Cryotanks. So the two could get in each other's way. You should only use one of the two.

I've the same issue. Uninstall Interstellar Fuel Switch did reeastblish LF for tanks that had it before installing Cryo Tanks, but the new tanks don't have LF/OX or LF option (1.12.4)

[Sans]

On 11/1/2023 at 11:19 AM, Sans said:

I've the same issue. Uninstall Interstellar Fuel Switch did reeastblish LF for tanks that had it before installing Cryo Tanks, but the new tanks don't have LF/OX or LF option (1.12.4)

I'm cursed. I can feel it...

Anyone know how to resolve that. I've uninstalled Interstellar Fuel Switch and even tested downgrading Cryo Tanks. No LF, LH2, Methane or anything. I've to keep Interstellar Fuel Switch installed, to get Liquid Fuel on other tanks

[bungling]

can someone help me out? i like the look and potential of all of these engines but i struggle to see the purpose of any of these engines

compared to liquid fuel, these engines are seemingly worse to build rockets with, needing many more fuel tanks to even start being more efficient

what are the applications for these engines? i dont see myself ever building a rocket large enough to get some noticeable effects out of them, the only time i see myself using these guys are for orbitally assembled interstellar vessels... but then again, i have nuclear engines for this

i am not saying the mod is bad, it looks really cool, im just wondering where id use these? am i missing something?

[JadeOfMaar]

Hi there @bungling. There are a few cases where you'll see their value. They include:

• When your system scale goes up, there's less "getting away" with the extra dV you happen to have and less ignoring how heavy everything is. The tyranny of the rocket equation starts to dig its claws in more, because most of your weight will be the dry mass of your tanks, and you'll really notice when your tanks actually weigh less (CryoTanks) and the engines (CryoEngines) offer you their Isp.
• LFO isn't exactly a thing anymore if you play with RealFuels or Realism Overhaul. If you step into the RO camp, what replaces LFO are fuel mixes that are easily storable (aren't cryo, no boiloff worries) but have worse Isp.
• (I'm not sure about how much this applies in KSP but) Cryofuels are easier to produce off-world if you look at off-world ISRU. Part of the whole interest in these is rooted in the fact that you just have to split water directly to make Hydrolox, and Mars habitation programs have the hype train of bringing Hydrogen or water to Mars and processing that with the ambient Carbon Dioxide there to produce Methalox for the return trip. Players who additionally want to have the exact ISRU recipes available to play with aren't going to give any thought to "bringing Ore drills as usual." (Or maybe they will. It depends.)

In addition, there are many players who sorely disagree with the stock convention of "LiquidFuel is whatever your chosen engine needs it to be: It's Kerosene for your Atlas/Delta; It's Hydrogen for your NERV; It's Methane for your Starship..." Having the right engine, with the right specs and the explicit demand for these resources, and having the rocket weigh properly because it's holding actual Hydrogen, is quite satisfying to many.

All of these pluses aside, there's the very real negative of Hydrogen's un-dense nature making it a horrible thing to deal with, but everyone knows that, and we deal with it.

Edited November 22, 2023 by JadeOfMaar

[bungling]

 @JadeOfMaar 

ohhhh, yeah that makes significantly more sense, thank you for the response
i might do RSS/RO eventually when i have the patience to set it up, make it look good (especially with volumetric clouds) and have the brainpower to figure out what the hell is going on

Edited November 22, 2023 by bungling

[jthero7]

On 11/21/2023 at 4:22 PM, bungling said:

can someone help me out? i like the look and potential of all of these engines but i struggle to see the purpose of any of these engines

compared to liquid fuel, these engines are seemingly worse to build rockets with, needing many more fuel tanks to even start being more efficient

what are the applications for these engines? i dont see myself ever building a rocket large enough to get some noticeable effects out of them, the only time i see myself using these guys are for orbitally assembled interstellar vessels... but then again, i have nuclear engines for this

i am not saying the mod is bad, it looks really cool, im just wondering where id use these? am i missing something?

@bungling Yeah, I felt the same way about them too. They looked amazing, but felt like they were way too close, balance wise, to the regular engines. At least in stock anyways.

I ended up boosting them up, slotting them in between LFO, and nukes. For hydrogen, I kept thrust the same, but increased the isp. And for methane, I increased the thrust a touch and increased the isp.

This also balanced it very nicely with the cryogenic extensions mod as well. Not quite realistic, but it makes for a nicer progression of engines in my view.

[Cheesecake]

The advantage is that cryogenic engines have a significantly higher ISP, which makes them much more efficient. This means that less fuel is required.
Secondly, hydrogen is significantly lighter, which makes the rocket much lighter overall.

[Kerballlistic07]

Does this use Waterfall or Realplume?

[Bizobinator]

Hello! My game is spamming exception errors in the console whenever I use Hydrolox. I haven't been able to determine if it's b/c of the tanks, fuel, engine, or from another mod like B9PartSwitch. Any idea what I've done wrong?

Here are my logs: 

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/u6snpn8mchgt04d1glapq/another-edu-spamming-exections-in-console-in-game.log?rlkey=kz03n842l1w8j9g5f86ycs08w&dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/4qfztw5vjvifgzbgzkyca/Player-spamming-console-errors.log?rlkey=ra71841dkp5d3lue57zswq1nl&dl=0

[WolfieKSP]

is this mod compatible with real fuels? i have a very annoying optimalization bug that makes the engines useless, terrier has 10X the dV of Tharsis while using LH2/LO2

[Cheesecake]

1 hour ago, WolfieKSP said:

is this mod compatible with real fuels? i have a very annoying optimalization bug that makes the engines useless, terrier has 10X the dV of Tharsis while using LH2/LO2

I think it`s a problem with RealFuels because Cryogenic Engines are intended to use with the FuelSwitch of CryoTanks.

[RunaDacino]

Is there a trick to getting accurate deltaV readouts in VAB when designing things? I often end up with a lot of deltaV left over (sometimes a whole thousand!) on my launch vehicles. I'm not complaining since it is far faster ejection burns but... it's also more expensive and I'm constantly broke.

 

I'm using Near Future 5/7.5M tanks as my launch vehicles using the multi-couplers (like 4-6 etnas or fujis)

[Cheesecake]

On 5/10/2024 at 8:37 AM, RunaDacino said:

Is there a trick to getting accurate deltaV readouts in VAB when designing things? I often end up with a lot of deltaV left over (sometimes a whole thousand!) on my launch vehicles. I'm not complaining since it is far faster ejection burns but... it's also more expensive and I'm constantly broke.

 

I'm using Near Future 5/7.5M tanks as my launch vehicles using the multi-couplers (like 4-6 etnas or fujis)

 

[Capt. Hunt]

I vaguely recall that previous versions of this mod included a guide for converting other engines to Cryogenic fuel, but I couldn't find it in the current version.

Can anyone give me some help?  I tried just changing the LiquidFuel callout to LiquidHydrogen, and it worked, but it broke all the visual effects.

[TURPEG]

Cryo engines? thats really cool!

[mikegarrison]

On 5/9/2024 at 11:37 PM, RunaDacino said:

Is there a trick to getting accurate deltaV readouts in VAB when designing things? I often end up with a lot of deltaV left over (sometimes a whole thousand!) on my launch vehicles. I'm not complaining since it is far faster ejection burns but... it's also more expensive and I'm constantly broke.

 

I'm using Near Future 5/7.5M tanks as my launch vehicles using the multi-couplers (like 4-6 etnas or fujis)

I use MechJeb, and the MechJeb deltaV calculations in the VAB seem to be correct.

[Grenartia]

Potentially dumb idea, and I know Nertea's got a lot more important things on his plate RN (plus, I think it could be done by someone else), I think it'd be a neat QoL feature for the fuel switcher to default to the fuel intended for the tank (i.e., stock tanks keep LF as default, cryotanks keep LH2 or methane, etc.). Its just a real PITA to build a plane in early career, and try to fly it, only to realize that the LF tank got defaulted to 'structural' and does not, in fact, contain any of the thing it was meant to contain. 

[Davi SDF]

5 hours ago, Grenartia said:

Potentially dumb idea, and I know Nertea's got a lot more important things on his plate RN (plus, I think it could be done by someone else), I think it'd be a neat QoL feature for the fuel switcher to default to the fuel intended for the tank (i.e., stock tanks keep LF as default, cryotanks keep LH2 or methane, etc.). Its just a real PITA to build a plane in early career, and try to fly it, only to realize that the LF tank got defaulted to 'structural' and does not, in fact, contain any of the thing it was meant to contain. 

Cryogenic Tanks (the fue switcher) does not have any "Structural" tank option.

You might be using Rational Resources, if you are, they have a patch for fuel tank switching too, and their's overrides Cryotanks. That's where the "Structural" tank option might be coming from and why it might be the default in all tanks.

Edited June 29 by Davi SDF

[Grenartia]

6 hours ago, Davi SDF said:

Cryogenic Tanks (the fue switcher) does not have any "Structural" tank option.

You might be using Rational Resources, if you are, they have a patch for fuel tank switching too, and their's overrides Cryotanks. That's where the "Structural" tank option might be coming from and why it might be the default in all tanks.

Thanks, I am using RR, so that explains it perfectly.