Multiplayer real or Vaporware?

[Tiberion]

Another thing to keep in mind, they announced they were going to do multiplayer in that PCGamer article, but they also said around that time that it wouldn't be under active development right away because they still intended to get "scope complete" before tackling it. That has only recently happened (0.25 to 0.90 timeframe)

If you do go back and read the devnotes between the announcement and now you'll see that there has been people working on it off and on, mostly core design and then server/backend stuff, so it has been moving along at its own pace.

I personally am glad they havent dived into it yet, I wanted them to get a lot more of the "core game" finished and polished up, which as of 1.0 is much closer to reality (not that there isn't lots left to do)

[FrostyMug]

Another thing to keep in mind, they announced they were going to do multiplayer in that PCGamer article, but they also said around that time that it wouldn't be under active development right away because they still intended to get "scope complete" before tackling it. That has only recently happened (0.25 to 0.90 timeframe)

If you do go back and read the devnotes between the announcement and now you'll see that there has been people working on it off and on, mostly core design and then server/backend stuff, so it has been moving along at its own pace.

I personally am glad they havent dived into it yet, I wanted them to get a lot more of the "core game" finished and polished up, which as of 1.0 is much closer to reality (not that there isn't lots left to do)

I guess my whole issue with it was that they stated it would be in the finished release version which in every game is 1.0. The game is no longer in Beta they have offically released the game. This is the finished version 1.0 and it has no Multiplayer as they stated there would be. This is the main issue. I am glad they are working on it but I wish when a developer states something like that they make a note of it and if not possible them redact it or at least do more then was done here about keeping us in the loop about it.

[briansun1]

I guess my whole issue with it was that they stated it would be in the finished release version which in every game is 1.0. The game is no longer in Beta they have offically released the game. This is the finished version 1.0 and it has no Multiplayer as they stated there would be. This is the main issue. I am glad they are working on it but I wish when a developer states something like that they make a note of it and if not possible them redact it or at least do more then was done here about keeping us in the loop about it.

Except there not finished with the game far from it. Just look at all the bugs the got fixed in the recent patch and even then there are still some things that need to be worked on. Just be patient.

[Temeter]

I wonder if they bring out multiplayer before updating to unity 5. Would be a huge delay, but I imagine porting an mp-system into another engine would be rather work intensive.

[FrostyMug]

Except there not finished with the game far from it. Just look at all the bugs the got fixed in the recent patch and even then there are still some things that need to be worked on. Just be patient.

Every game has fixes to it and expansions and DLC added to it after it releases. This is the release version or we would still be in Beta. It is not in Beta so it is released. Im not argueing they are not still working on the game Im just argueing that they stated they would have a MP mode in release version and they don't.

[tetryds]

they stated they would have a MP mode in release version and they don't.

As RIC stated and gave sources, they did not say that, they clearly stated MP will come later.

[Tiberion]

I guess my whole issue with it was that they stated it would be in the finished release version which in every game is 1.0. The game is no longer in Beta they have offically released the game. This is the finished version 1.0 and it has no Multiplayer as they stated there would be. This is the main issue. I am glad they are working on it but I wish when a developer states something like that they make a note of it and if not possible them redact it or at least do more then was done here about keeping us in the loop about it.

They did redact it, several times. not in a PCGamer article though.

[FrostyMug]

As RIC stated and gave sources, they did not say that, they clearly stated MP will come later.

The finished release of Kerbal Space Program will include official multiplayer modes, according to developer Squad. How exactly a multiplayer mode will work mechanically is undecided, but Squad says it's committed to building beyond the current singleplayer model.

“Multiplayer is something we had planned to do after it was all said and done, but it's time for us to start looking at it now,†developer Felipe Falanghe said at a team meeting in Mexico City today. Squad envisions four discrete game modes: the classic sandbox, the newly launched career mode, and multiplayer versions of both sandbox and career mode.

Directly from the DEC 2013 PC Gamer article. It was said and they cannot dispute that.

- - - Updated - - -

They did redact it, several times. not in a PCGamer article though.

I would like to see the redations. Were they in the forums on twitter? I hope not on Twitter because to me that is not a redaction it is a chat not a place to be redacting major features. Forums would be acceptable but I have not seen one post.

[Red Iron Crown]

They certainly did say it, it's just that their plan changed between then and now. I know that's disappointing for those who are eagerly awaiting multiplayer, but so it goes sometimes.

Edit: It was mentioned in an article here on the official forum: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/313-Beta-Than-Ever-The-Future-of-KSP

[Slam_Jones]

Okay, so one time, two years ago, they said they will include Multiplayer. I suppose they should have used more discretion, but it's their game, their decision.

Do you hold 100% to everything you said two years ago? I personally can't recall anything I even said two years ago.

The point is: things change. Some features get pushed to the top and some to the bottom. I'm sure they're sorry MP isn't released yet, but I'm also sure there's plenty more to work on before turning to that.

[tetryds]

Q: What about Multiplayer?

A: "Multiplayer is something we’ve been working on for quite a while, but it still has a long way to go before it’s ready. MP is planned for after 1.0. So that’s still coming, but let’s take this one step at a time." - Harvester

Source

Nothing was ever set to stone, PCGamer article is not more official than any official announcement.

There is also a disclaimer that they could change anything during the development of the game with or without prior notice.

Edit: got ninja'd.

[FrostyMug]

They certainly did say it, it's just that their plan changed between then and now. I know that's disappointing for those who are eagerly awaiting multiplayer, but so it goes sometimes.

Edit: It was mentioned in an article here on the official forum: http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/content/313-Beta-Than-Ever-The-Future-of-KSP

Thanks for pointing out where it was I missed that one line in there. Thank you.

[Albert VDS]

I disagree I think updating a completed game would be easier with all its modes instead of doing half the game and then trying to figure out how to update and add the other half later. Seems to be defeating the purpose really. Also please direct me to the responses in relation to release after 1.0. Thanks

You are disregarding the following things just to make a point on having multiplayer in 1.0:

- Making a single player game is a lot of work, adding a lot on your plate isn't making it easier.

- Planned features(like multiplayer) are taken into account when developing the whole game, you don't need to put it all together in one go.

- Squad is a small team.

- The main goal of the game is single player space exploration sandbox game, multiplayer is a bonus.

- Did I mention that it's a lot of work to make a game?

[FrostyMug]

You are disregarding the following things just to make a point on having multiplayer in 1.0:

- Making a single player game is a lot of work, adding a lot on your plate isn't making it easier.

- Planned features(like multiplayer) are taken into account when developing the whole game, you don't need to put it all together in one go.

- Squad is a small team.

- The main goal of the game is single player space exploration sandbox game, multiplayer is a bonus.

- Did I mention that it's a lot of work to make a game?

Im sorry but the success of KSP should automatically take the small team argument off the table. They have made plenty of money on KSP to afford to expand the team. They are small but i is not nessary for them to be small hence that is a moot point and should not be used anymore in relation to squad. The can be bigger they choose not to be so they cannot use this as a crutch anymore.

[Fel]

Yup I do know how hard it would be to implement into the game but it seems people (not the devs) have figured out how to do it already. Referring to the mod out there. So if a bunch of people like me and you can get in there and mod the game to include the multiplayer then what is taking the devs 2 years on something that has already been done. I refuse to play on the mods man I play only Stock KSP.

A) The people working on the mod are NOT like you.

Understand this, you cannot create a multiplayer game if you do not design for a 56k telephone modem. Packet optimization is key to keeping everyone happy, and getting all those tricks in there isn't easy. I could implement multiplayer in an hour, give or take, just spawn vessels and keep a socket open to pass data back and forth... of course without packet optimization I would need to be synced every frame, and have a process interrupting the program until sync, else major issues will happen. This means framerate will drop by a large amount and any delay will cause the game to freeze up until a connection is re-established.

KSP is, of course, an extremely difficult game to packet optimize given how many variables are being applied each frame. Syncing patched conics is simple; syncing real time physics is something else.

People have different experience

There have been several REAL mods on these forums; mods that implement engineering models that you would have to understand to adequately implement, or use advanced mathematics to solve complex equations, using a wrapper to access low level system functions... and then there are compilation mods, "ignored the license update" mods, if-then-else mods, and "look at this interface I found" mods.

The devs are not super human, their choice of unity over a C based engine should show that they're not the best programmers either.

C) Licensing is hell. GPL, as many of the plugin mods are, strictly forbids use in closed-source code (of course, you can sell said source, but you cannot prevent people from forking it or distributing it); I hold doubt as to how much you, as the creator, have control over repealing the GPL, but it can be utterly nasty.

[Slam_Jones]

Im sorry but the success of KSP should automatically take the small team argument off the table. They have made plenty of money on KSP to afford to expand the team. They are small but i is not nessary for them to be small hence that is a moot point and should not be used anymore in relation to squad. The can be bigger they choose not to be so they cannot use this as a crutch anymore.

That's a pretty ignorant thing to say. You cannot possibly begin to know what Squad is working with in terms of budget (or other constraints).

Edited May 1, 2015 by Slam_Jones

[Kagame]

Dude, just chill out. Games take a LOT of work to make. And indie gaming isn't necessarily a tree upon which money grows. Probably better they stay small and make a good game, rather than become EA and go big, yet turn out a crap game. I'd say the max size of a gaming studio would be Valve.... and even they haven't gotten around to making Half-Life 3. =P

[stupid_chris]

Yup I do know how hard it would be to implement into the game but it seems people (not the devs) have figured out how to do it already. Referring to the mod out there. So if a bunch of people like me and you can get in there and mod the game to include the multiplayer then what is taking the devs 2 years on something that has already been done. I refuse to play on the mods man I play only Stock KSP.

Then I have bad news: you're playing on four mods right now. KSPX, FinePrint, SPP+, and an implementation of Regolith.

And you want to know why it's taking them so long? Because they started nearly 4 months after the mod was released, because they have been focusing on other things, and because the guy who made the mod took well around a year to accomplish that while working solely on that. Take a chill pill and give some the devs some rope. There are things you can point at and as "why", but this isn't one of them.

[biohazard15]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why multiplayer should not be incorporated into KSP.

The vast majority of multiplayer fans tend to be rather... aggressive, I would say. Much more aggressive than any singleplayer community (like that of ours). Don't believe me? Go to any MP game forum and read it for a while. Then go back here and compare.

Do we really want to introduce that cancer of videogaming here? I think not.

[Fel]

Im sorry but the success of KSP should automatically take the small team argument off the table. They have made plenty of money on KSP to afford to expand the team. They are small but i is not nessary for them to be small hence that is a moot point and should not be used anymore in relation to squad. The can be bigger they choose not to be so they cannot use this as a crutch anymore.

Social Imperative?

Squad does NOT need to grow just because they had a success. Staying small has a plethora of benefits, ranging from simply paperwork and also better company unity. Take a look at Maxis; EA saved the company, but then began mismanaging it, firing off their greatest assets, encouraging them to produce "junk" games to satisfy some kind of quota... and EA nearly scrapped the sims which turned out to be a major cash cow for them, it required significant push from Will Wright to keep the game as it needed to be to be successful.

Growing is a choice, sometimes it is a choice to avoid bankruptcy, sometimes it is a choice to get rich, sometimes it is a choice that just happens. But growing is NOT an imperative.

- - - Updated - - -

Fair question. I know that they look at them, but responses from them on the forum are somewhat rare. The reason is that every post they make is scrutinized heavily, squeezed for every ounce of implication, and treated as some sort of binding promise. Understandably, they're a bit reticent about making offhand remarks in here.

I guess my whole issue with it was that they stated it would be in the finished release version which in every game is 1.0. The game is no longer in Beta they have offically released the game. This is the finished version 1.0 and it has no Multiplayer as they stated there would be. This is the main issue. I am glad they are working on it but I wish when a developer states something like that they make a note of it and if not possible them redact it or at least do more then was done here about keeping us in the loop about it.

THIS is why the devs don't post on the forums that often. Because every word said, even 2 years ago, gets pulled up and people make a fuss about it.

[NFUN]

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why multiplayer should not be incorporated into KSP.

The vast majority of multiplayer fans tend to be rather... aggressive, I would say. Much more aggressive than any singleplayer community (like that of ours). Don't believe me? Go to any MP game forum and read it for a while. Then go back here and compare.

Do we really want to introduce that cancer of videogaming here? I think not.

The multiplayer mod is usually pretty friendly, with the only issue being occasional trolls that persist because they can't be punished in any way by the mod. I doubt any 'unsavory' characters would get KSP just because it has multiplayer if they weren't interested in the base game, and they would probably either mellow out after seeing the hostility that we have towards that attitude, get bored because they don't have the patience to play KSP, or stay secluded and harmless from most of the community.

[Frozen_Heart]

The multiplayer mod is usually pretty friendly, with the only issue being occasional trolls that persist because they can't be punished in any way by the mod. I doubt any 'unsavory' characters would get KSP just because it has multiplayer if they weren't interested in the base game, and they would probably either mellow out after seeing the hostility that we have towards that attitude, get bored because they don't have the patience to play KSP, or stay secluded and harmless from most of the community.

KSP strikes me as the kind of game it would be a challenge to be disruptive on. If someone has got it just to be a pain then the chances are they will struggle to even achieve orbit.

[basic.syntax]

KSP strikes me as the kind of game it would be a challenge to be disruptive on. If someone has got it just to be a pain then the chances are they will struggle to even achieve orbit.

I've been surprised by the amount of work some folks will go to, to be disruptive.

EVE Online has the CONCORD "space police" to take someone's ship away, if they shoot you without cause in so-called "safe" high-security space. The illegal shooter also gets a criminal flag for 15 minutes, which heavily restricts what they can do. Most will wait it out in a station until they can shoot someone else, if that's what they really want to do in life.

Some who like to interfere with mining ships in high-sec bypass that: instead of shooting the mining ship, they will spend crazy amounts of time doing nothing but bumping into a mining ship, (this causes no damage) maneuvering around and around, pushing it out of asteroid mining range. Blasting a ship is pretty fast, this bumping stuff takes time and effort. It isn't against the game rules, and has spawned endless forum threads. When several of them band together in a group to perform this ship-bumping activity, they can be fairly effective.

I think KSP multiplayer intends to be more cooperative than competitive, with different servers and game types. I wanted to point out the work some slightly bent people are willing to do, if it will annoy others... they'd learn to orbit ...but if KSP multi is run across many independent servers, I don't see grief play becoming a problem.

[Superfluous J]

I vote "neither."

[Vanamonde]

You are free to disagree with each other, but let's please not insult each other over it. Refering to others as "ignorant" and "a cancer" is only going to make people mad, and less inclined to listen to your points.