[WIP][1.8.x] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [11-18-18]

tater · January 16, 2018

5 minutes ago, StickyScissors said:

Trying to dock them parallel with multiple ports, not face to face

KSP really needs a radial docking port. I set the SSTU ports to have angle snap, and managed to do it then...

Jimbodiah · January 16, 2018

If you use mechjeb you can specify the angle you want to dock :wink:

tater · January 16, 2018

6 minutes ago, Jimbodiah said:

If you use mechjeb you can specify the angle you want to dock

Never tried mechjeb... but I actually like docking.

StickyScissors · January 16, 2018

17 minutes ago, Jimbodiah said:

If you use mechjeb you can specify the angle you want to dock

The problem isnt the angle, the problem is something in mechjebs code broke with one of the updates, and now it completely overshoots when turning the vessel to line up ports, and never stabilizes enough to dock. it'll get really close, while still flailing, and then it will disengage, which causes the ships to bump and spin eachother

selfish_meme · January 16, 2018

1 hour ago, tater said:

KSP really needs a radial docking port. I set the SSTU ports to have angle snap, and managed to do it then...

You can use radial adapters and docking ports, not as good looking as SSTU

Jimbodiah · January 16, 2018

@StickyScissors Are you using the dev builds? I'm using the latest one and have no problem docking. Only if RCS in unbalanced will it behave erraticaly, more so than old version. RCS has never worked really properly since KSP 1.2 for some reason, I think they nerfed the PIDs behind it.

StickyScissors · January 16, 2018

40 minutes ago, Jimbodiah said:

@StickyScissors Are you using the dev builds? I'm using the latest one and have no problem docking. Only if RCS in unbalanced will it behave erraticaly, more so than old version. RCS has never worked really properly since KSP 1.2 for some reason, I think they nerfed the PIDs behind it.

I downloaded the latest dev build earlier today, but apparently it gave me 2.6.1 instead of 2.7.0-776. Also i dont *think* the RCS is unbalanced, as the ship hasn't ben modified in a way that would move the CoM anywhere significant, but i'll get RCS Balancer and check anyways.

Edit: nope, still doesnt work even with dev build. oh well, ill find something else to play

Edited January 16, 2018 by StickyScissors

Shadowmage · January 16, 2018

16 hours ago, OscarJade said:

Silly question: I recently loaded this mod...and some of the parts are invisible when I try to load them in the VAB. (They show the blue dots as connection points, but remain invisible when you attach them) Has anyone else experienced this? Thanks in advance

This is either caused by improper versions (you need KSP 1.3.1 + the latest SSTU downloads), or is caused by an incorrect install (wrong locations and/or missing dependencies).

If you cannot get it figured out, please post a .log file, and/or show screenshots of the contents of your GameData folder -- either should likely allow for some diagnosing of what the problem is.

Shadowmage · January 16, 2018

12 hours ago, StickyScissors said:

I downloaded the latest dev build earlier today, but apparently it gave me 2.6.1 instead of 2.7.0-776. Also i dont *think* the RCS is unbalanced, as the ship hasn't ben modified in a way that would move the CoM anywhere significant, but i'll get RCS Balancer and check anyways.

Edit: nope, still doesnt work even with dev build. oh well, ill find something else to play

Yeah, MechJebs' RCS/docking controls have been wonky for a few versions. I would recommend against using it. Even when it -did- work, it was terribly inefficient from a propellant usage viewpoint.

I've only done manual docking since KSP 0.90 though, mostly for that reason. Well, 'mostly manual'. Instead of letting MJ control all of the RCS thrust/etc, I just use MJ to do 'target hold'. Get into a close RV range (<1km), and the following steps work for me 100% of the time.

1.) 'Control from here' on the docking port on the spacecraft. Target docking port on the station. Set MJ on the 'spacecraft' to 'target hold' mode. Optionally put in a rotation/roll offset value.
2.) Switch to the station. 'Control from here' on the docking port on the station. Target the port on the spacecraft. Set the MJ on the station to 'target hold' mode, with optional rotation/roll offset.
3.) Now that the two craft have their docking ports pointed directly at each other, and are at the proper roll/rotation, simply provide some small forward thrust to the spacecraft (~1ms if >100m away, otherwise ~0.5ms is plenty).
4.) Wait for things to get within ~20m separation. Might have to make very minor course corrections on the spacecraft by using the translation controls (IJKL) to keep the prograde vector pointed directly at the target.
5.) Once within ~20m of separation, set BOTH vessels to 'orientation hold' / 'stop rotation' mode. If you leave them in 'target hold' mode, they can get into some sort of fighting oscillation. Leaving -one- in target hold is okay, but not both.
6.) Wait the final 20-30s to close the last few meters. If you did 1-5 properly, you should already be at a perfect approach angle, and at a proper docking speed. Just take your hands off the controls and let it coast in.
7.) You should already be docked at this point..., or just coming back from getting coffee or something....

Yes, this even works when docking multiple ports -- you just need to set up the roll/rotation offset stuff properly in MJ. If you don't have/use MJ, you can still do this same setup using the stock SAS 'target hold' setting, though it doesn't have any roll control. If you've done it well, this docking method should use a total of < 5m/s dV worth of propellant, and usually <2m/s once practiced.

Shadowmage · January 16, 2018

15 hours ago, tater said:

KSP really needs a radial docking port. I set the SSTU ports to have angle snap, and managed to do it then...

<< I've actually written a special 'multi-docking-port' module for exactly this purpose -- orbital assembly. Includes two docking modules in a single part, both with specific dock types and snap angles to ensure that it will only dock in one orientation. While it wouldn't help you actually dock the thing, it -would- ensure that it only docked into the proper orientation, and supply 'multi-joint' stability with multiple docking nodes in use (though unsure on the utility of that, as the docking port part itself only has a single attach point to its parent part....).

But alas, I have not had time to create any models for it. Require a new model as it needs two docking port transforms, with unique/different names. Not even really sure what it should look like... probably some sort of rail/beam assembly.

Norcalplanner · January 16, 2018

@Shadowmage What you described is nearly identical to what I do when docking, and the technique works great. The only refinements I would suggest are to hit caps lock for fine RCS control (this helps a lot if the RCS thrusters arent perfectly lined up with the CoM), and to use the "PAR-" hold for the actively maneuvering craft during the final approach. This particular hold keeps the docking port lined up perfectly parallel and opposite of the target port. It's also great when you have a truly massive station you don't want to rotate.

Jimbodiah · January 16, 2018

Wait, whut?! Fine rcs controls?

Edited January 16, 2018 by Jimbodiah

Norcalplanner · January 17, 2018

1 hour ago, Jimbodiah said:

Wait, whut?! Fine rcs controls?

Yep. All the indicators on the lower left will turn blue. Also works great with aircraft that have too much control authority at higher speeds.

Starwaster · January 17, 2018

@StickyScissors @Shadowmage

Having trouble with docking then give this a try please (assuming KSP 1.3.1)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9swbqvqrhxfjptq/MechJeb2.dll?dl=1

Added another safeguard to move away from the dock if it's too close and hasn't yet lined up.

OscarJade · January 17, 2018

On 1/15/2018 at 7:46 PM, Jimbodiah said:

Running KSP 1.3.1?

Do you have the 3 directories needed from the SSTU install? (SSTU, 000_TexturesUnlimited, KSPWheel)

I am running 1.3.1...but those directories don’t look/sound familar. Are they something I need to unpack during install?

StickyScissors · January 17, 2018

50 minutes ago, Starwaster said:

@StickyScissors @Shadowmage

Having trouble with docking then give this a try please (assuming KSP 1.3.1)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9swbqvqrhxfjptq/MechJeb2.dll?dl=1

Added another safeguard to move away from the dock if it's too close and hasn't yet lined up.

That dosnt fix mechjeb over-burning RCS. It still does this: https://giant.gfycat.com/GlassDeliriousAngora.webm

I doubt Sarbian will get to it any time soon, because this has been a problem since at least november and has gone pretty much un-acknowleged by him so far. Anyways, lets not get too far off topic before the mods intervene

Jimbodiah · January 17, 2018

1 hour ago, OscarJade said:

I am running 1.3.1...but those directories don’t look/sound familar. Are they something I need to unpack during install?

Those should be the three folders you have moved to the gamedata directory. You also need the Community Resource Pack by the way.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Jimbodiah

Kaa253 · January 17, 2018

@StickyScissors I am a big fan of MechJeb and have it installed all the time. For the docking problems a year ago or more I installed and tried the Docking Port Alignment Indicator mod. Now I have it at all times too.

Firstly, when MechJeb is behaving perfectly well you can sit back and watch what it is doing on the indicator and quickly learn what things should look like on the indicator when approach and docking is proceeding well. Next, when you encounter a docking job where MechJeb is struggling then you can jump in manually (yes you can still have attitude hold assistance from MechJeb if you like) and get it done efficiently by hand. Added bonus is you learn to dock efficiently for yourself (eventually, even with the indicator off!). For general docking tasks I find MJ is 3 or 4 times faster than I am and so for straight-forward simple docking jobs I often just leave it to MJ. On the other hand, if I do take the time to do it manually I generally use only 10-20% of the monoprop / RCS fuel that MechJeb uses! So for odd shapes, odd docking angles or when RCS fuel is getting very low then do it manually with the DPAI .

ps. If you have mastered taking a spacewalking kerbal out to 500 meters from your ship and then bringing her back with the jetpack to a nice smooth and slow rendezvous with the crew hatch (and I bet you can do this) then in fact you already know how to dock ships well. The principle is essentially the same.

pps. I can also highly recommend @Shadowmage's 7 step MJ assisted method as he describes a few posts back. I use this method as well and it is very effective.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Kaa253

Pappystein · January 17, 2018

On 1/15/2018 at 11:13 PM, StickyScissors said:

The problem isnt the angle, the problem is something in mechjebs code broke with one of the updates, and now it completely overshoots when turning the vessel to line up ports, and never stabilizes enough to dock. it'll get really close, while still flailing, and then it will disengage, which causes the ships to bump and spin eachother

I assume you are using SSTU docking ports when this happens? I to have had this problem. I solved it by Right clicking on the docking port and clicking the angle snap Gui button. I did not have to make any adjustments and Mechjeb would AUTO dock. You have to do this on the RECEIVER craft more than the Docking (controlled by Mechjeb) craft. it even worked with my rescaled DP docking ports (1.5m and 0.9375m)

@Kaa253 NavHUD (maintained by @linuxgurugamer) does an even better job because it is graphics on the screen instead of just the attitude indicator, and you don't have to worry if a pro-grade or retrograde symbol is being occluded so you can't tell which one it is.

22 hours ago, Starwaster said:

@StickyScissors @Shadowmage

Having trouble with docking then give this a try please (assuming KSP 1.3.1)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9swbqvqrhxfjptq/MechJeb2.dll?dl=1

Added another safeguard to move away from the dock if it's too close and hasn't yet lined up.

Starwaster, Actually it is an OVER-correction on the Controls (lets say you need 1 degree of pitch Mechjeb goes for 2 for the sake of argument.) I have seen this with all the 1.3x builds including the latest dev build. Figured it was a mod on my end but obviously others are having issues. I had a Rocket launch under accent guidance to 8000km with a 180degree roll through out the flight (to keep the poor Kerbals from Redding out you know,) and it took from ~180m to almost 26 km for the 90 degree roll to complete because it was constantly oscillating left to right with FULL control deflection + full SAS roll. If removed movable controls and kept RCS off Mechjeb gives a perfect control but add either/both to the built in SAS and Mechjeb over-controls.

Currently Mechjeb is causing MJIO (MechJeb Induced Oscillation) when more than one control system is concurrently in operation. (in my experience.)

On 1/16/2018 at 1:51 PM, Shadowmage said:

<< I've actually written a special 'multi-docking-port' module for exactly this purpose -- orbital assembly. Includes two docking modules in a single part, both with specific dock types and snap angles to ensure that it will only dock in one orientation. While it wouldn't help you actually dock the thing, it -would- ensure that it only docked into the proper orientation, and supply 'multi-joint' stability with multiple docking nodes in use (though unsure on the utility of that, as the docking port part itself only has a single attach point to its parent part....).

But alas, I have not had time to create any models for it. Require a new model as it needs two docking port transforms, with unique/different names. Not even really sure what it should look like... probably some sort of rail/beam assembly.

So since I continued the derailment of the thread with my last post (SORRY!) let me ask a question that is apropos to this thread. A Rail? I assume no passage over this port would be allowed? If you don't mind an opinion on the subject, I think you would be better served with 2 circles of different sizes. one is for "resource transfer" and the other is for "Crew Transfer" It still forces the strict orientation, but gives you a plausible way to have an internal crew transfer. So model wise you could easily use the DP-0 + an off centered DP-1 port with a single point of docking and being Gendered would have only one way to dock (game wise would only dock at one point but it will LOOK like two separate docking connections have happened.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Pappystein

StickyScissors · January 18, 2018

~~-snip-~~

~~Fixed i think~~

Edit: Nope, still borked. Even the MJ assisted method, which relies on Smart A.S.S, couldnt keep its composure and did the same thing, oh well. With lots of manhandling and Capslock fine control, i got them together, albeit a couple degrees off :I

Edited January 18, 2018 by StickyScissors

Starwaster · January 18, 2018

1 hour ago, StickyScissors said:

~~-snip-~~

~~Fixed i think~~

Edit: Nope, still borked. Even the MJ assisted method, which relies on Smart A.S.S, couldnt keep its composure and did the same thing, oh well. With lots of manhandling and Capslock fine control, i got them together, albeit a couple degrees off :I

Are you able to translate those without angular momentum being introduced?

StickyScissors · January 18, 2018

8 minutes ago, Starwaster said:

Are you able to translate those without angular momentum being introduced?

Yes, although the controls are wonky when selecting "Control from here" on the docking port. i cant memorize what keys do what when controlling from the side docking ports

Edited January 18, 2018 by StickyScissors

chrisl · January 18, 2018

I do manual docking as well, but I have Docking Port Alignment Indicator mod which helps a great deal.

I'm using the KSP 1.2.2 compatible version of SSTU, but I have pulled the assets from the latest version just to be sure. I've noticed that the RD-180 (SSTU-SC-ENG-RD-180) is turned 90 degrees compared to the Pyrios engine mount. Is there any way to rotate the graphic for the engine in the cfg file so the Pyrios mount will work? Or a way to rotate the Pyrios engine mount for this one engine?

MacLuky · January 18, 2018

Hi

I'm trying to add Kerbalism to SSTU containers, or better said, the resources that are now cluttering my spaceships ;-) I tried the following:


SSTU_FUELTYPE:NEEDS[Kerbalism]
{
    name = Oxygen
    RESOURCE
    {
	    resource = Oxygen
	    ratio = 1
    }
}

SSTU_FUELTYPE:NEEDS[Kerbalism]
{
    name = Nitrogen
    RESOURCE
    {
	    resource = Nitrogen
	    ratio = 1
    }
}

SSTU_FUELTYPE:NEEDS[Kerbalism]
{
    name = Ammonia
    RESOURCE
    {
	    resource = Ammonia
	    ratio = 1
    }
}

SSTU_RESOURCEVOLUME:NEEDS[Kerbalism]
{
	name = Oxygen
	volume = 1
}

SSTU_RESOURCEVOLUME:NEEDS[Kerbalism]
{
	name = Nitrogen
	volume = 0.8
}

@PART[SSTU-SC-TANK-MFT-A|SSTU-SC-TANK-MFT-S|SSTU-SC-TANK-MFT-R|SSTU-SC-TANK-MFT-LV|SSTU-SC-TANK-MUS|SSTU-SC-TANK-MFT-D]:NEEDS[Kerbalism]
{
	@MODULE[SSTUVolumeContainer]
	{
		@CONTAINER,0
		{
			resource = Nitrogen
			resource = Oxygen
			resource = Ammonia
		}
	}
}

Which screws with the SSTU right click menu, but I can't really figure out why. Help is greatly appreciated ;-)

Jimbodiah · January 19, 2018

That patch will make a button named "oxygen" and "hydrogen" in the container GUI, but will not make the actual resources available. You will need to make a patch to add them to the tanks like such:

@PART[SSTU-SC-TANK-MFT-A|SSTU-SC-TANK-MFT-S|SSTU-SC-TANK-MFT-R|SSTU-SC-TANK-MFT-LV|SSTU-SC-TANK-MUS|SSTU-SC-TANK-MFT-D]:FOR[SSTU]:NEEDS[Kerbalism]
{
	@MODULE[SSTUVolumeContainer]
	{
		@CONTAINER,0
		{
            resource = Oxygen
            resource = Hydrogen
		}
	}
}


As well as to any command- or service module if you desire.

Alternatively you can make a ResourceSet to have them both added instead of seperatly. This will mean 1 button less to clutter the GUI.

SSTU_RESOURCESET:NEEDS[Snacks]
{
	name = Snacks
	resource = Snacks
	resource = Soil
}
@PART[SSTU-SC-TANK-MFT-A|SSTU-SC-TANK-MFT-S|SSTU-SC-TANK-MFT-R|SSTU-SC-TANK-MFT-LV|SSTU-SC-TANK-MUS|SSTU-SC-TANK-MFT-D]:FOR[SSTU]:NEEDS[Snacks]
{
	@MODULE[SSTUVolumeContainer]
	{
		@CONTAINER,0
		{
			resourceSet = Snacks
		}
	}
}
@PART[SSTU-SC-A-SMX]:NEEDS[Snacks]
{
	@MODULE[SSTUVolumeContainer]
	{
		@CONTAINER,1
		{
			resourceSet = Snacks
		}
	}
}

Edited January 19, 2018 by Jimbodiah

[WIP][1.8.x] SSTULabs - Low Part Count Solutions (Orbiters, Landers, Lifters) - Dev Thread [11-18-18]

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