KSP is coming to the Wii U

[magnemoe]

That's the PROBLEM. They released a very much so unfinished product. In my personal opinion, realistic aero and reentry damage should have been put in before a full version. Those are pretty big changes to be placing in the first full release. At least Minecraft had their stuff together before releasing a full. Now they're IMPROVING on what they've done.

Squad is by no means a bad company, and I'll stick with them. Hell, I'd sink with them if KSP was a sinking ship. But they're not perfect, they've made alot of mistakes. They're bound to make more. Scrutinizing every mistake isn't how things are fixed. Civilized discussion is.

Not sure if I've just contradicted myself there, but in the end...

TL;DR: Squad is definitely messing up, and they definitely have messed up, and will mess up. But they- like us- are human, and so we should give them the benefit of the doubt.

Aero and reentry damage is just config? or is I wrong here? Its nothing who has to be developed but just tweaked so planes and rockets work well.

Reentry has the problem that either its so weak you don't need heat-shields or planes burns up, currently it makes aerobraking at Jool and Eve very hard, main problem about that is that the atmosphere is too dense in the upper parts.

However this has nothing to do with development but mostly with the small planets and atmospheric cutoff. Probably easier to tweak.

[KerbMav]

When did being tactful ever get anywhere? All I've seen from KSP people is tactful since the porting madness started months back, and it hasn't done anything (except give us more ports). If you bought the game and want to influence it, being clear and opinionated is the way to save it. Not being milquetoast until its too late.

Consoles are great for arcade games, but not simulations, and nearly everyone on this forum wants some sort of simulation. The console market will not want the same things we do, and will move development in another direction.

So by your logic, one does either do everything to sell the exact same product to every market there is without adaptation or ignore other markets completely?

Let's see, there is a Batman video game like Arkham City - and there is LEGO Batman ... for sure releasing a product more suitable for children will severely hurt the "Batman brand" and we will never hear or see anything of it again.

Squad has been "warned" countless times to change PC gameplay in favor of consoles and they have assured the players that this will not happen, that console development is being outsourced and independent from PC development at Squad HQ.

The public backlash of not keeping this promise would be harsh. While avoiding this specifically by withholding even the tiniest piece of information regarding unreleased features still in the planning phase, why should they say something like this now if they plan otherwise?

[Albert VDS]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong here.

The Wii U CPU is a 1.24Ghz tri-core, meaning that it could potentially run the game faster than a 3Ghz single core.

It uses a specific OS, tailor made for it's hardware and runs on a separate CPU (not core but a 2nd CPU), thus it takes no resources from the main CPU.

When a game is running the OS is off and does use up memory, which means it can use the total 2GB of ram.

Couple this with lower settings and I don't see why people think it couldn't run KSP.

As a reminder there are tons of factors which make a PC game playable, most of them are due to things beyond the control of the game developer.

There's the OS which tries to cater to a wide variety of hardware setups, it shares the system ram at all times, and is depended on properly installed and updated software.

Hardware drivers need to be compatible and kept up to date, unless these updates cause problems.

Then there's 3rd party software; anti virus and other software take up resources(Windows machines), just like any other software constantly loaded into the system memory.

And then there's the worst of them all; malware. This is something which can potentially take a massive impact on the system resources. (Windows machines)

I'm quite positive that it could turn out to be a very enjoyable game on Wii U.

[Kershu5]

Jesus Batman Christ, vampire hunter. Seems a lot of people are whining like murlock caught in a trash compactor like they can read the future and this is somehow the most horrible thing since JFK's skull got superfluous ventilation. Like this is somehow BAD. I'd laugh if it wasn't so horrendously sad, and in some cases hilariously elitist. The only thing any of you should even be remotely concerned about is whether or not Nintendo is making overtures to Squad for a buyout and taking control of the IP. Which, as of the writing of this post, is not occurring. They are simply trying to fill up their console's library with "titles that are really well liked that people will buy, that they can convince third party developers to port to their console." This is an action taken by smart companies. Nintendo gets something popular as hell sold on the Wii U, both they and Squad make more money (perhaps not hand over fist, but they make more money) and Squad-operating under the presumption that they love the beast they have created and wish to make it even more double plus good, which as I recall they wish to do given Squad member statements to such effects- can afford to put more effort into the game and heck maybe even hire more people to help do that.

tl;dr: Squad stands to profit and profit means bettergood KSP for us in the long run.

[Majorjim!]

The part limits will be so low on console. I truly see this all blowing up in Squads face when the consumers realise a craft of 200 parts runs at 10 frames per second.

[KSK]

Long range prediction: Given the proven market, in two years we'll see competent KSP clones dividing the market. Squad will be neck deep trying to sell schools Wii's, faxing NASA for more licensing rights, and creating yet another set of jet engine parts.

KSP has an opportunity to be the king space simulator for a long time, but they're wasting their lead.

They're not wasting it at all. They're using that lead to capture as much market share as they can by porting to different platforms. That gives them a more secure income which they can then use to further develop the game. In the longer term, they're far better off doing that than wasting their time trying to 'finish' one version of the game on one platform. Especially since development on that platform clearly hasn't stopped.

If Squad are still releasing parts and pulling in licensing rights from NASA in two years time, then I'd say they've picked exactly the right strategy. Why? Because they'd still be focusing on the core strengths of their game, which are a) the ability to build your own spacecraft the kerbals themselves and c) all the good publicity from NASA etc.

Space simulators, with realistic orbital mechanics are not a new thing.

[cantab]

It's not meaningful to compare processors by core count and clock speed, you need benchmarks. Which are hard to come by for the Wii U's chip, whereas PS4 and XBone performance can be extrapolated from similar PC chips.

The whole OS thing isn't what it used to be. As recently as the PS2 consoles had basically no "operating system", the game would start up and be all that was running. But now the consoles have a whole bunch of stuff going on in the background just like PCs do.

The majority of KSP players will I hope not have malware on their computers.

[Renegrade]

Re: Competent KSP clones - if I weren't so lazy about calculus, I'd be writing one right now.

It's not meaningful to compare processors by core count and clock speed, you need benchmarks. Which are hard to come by for the Wii U's chip, whereas PS4 and XBone performance can be extrapolated from similar PC chips.

Aside from specific task improvements (ex, an AES-NI chip will perform AES encryption about 50% faster than a non-AES-NI chip, assuming the AES software is AES-NI aware*), no, you can totally compare chips by clock rate in the post-Pentium-4 world. In fact, you can do so across the entire Pentium and Core lines (and equivalent AMDs) EXCEPT the P4 and original Pentium (P5). The IPC is something like 2/clock max~

That being said, yeah, cores*mhz is rather meaningless.

* - this is why these narrow-focus/task improvements are so common these days. Gets Intel/AMD their planned obsolescence for only ten percent of the cost. Intel, for instance, plans out these new instruction sets many generations in advance.

The Wii U CPU is a 1.24Ghz tri-core, meaning that it could potentially run the game faster than a 3Ghz single core.

It uses a specific OS, tailor made for it's hardware and runs on a separate CPU (not core but a 2nd CPU), thus it takes no resources from the main CPU.

When a game is running the OS is off and does use up memory, which means it can use the total 2GB of ram.

Couple this with lower settings and I don't see why people think it couldn't run KSP.

Read this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahl's_law

Or if it's too long, here's the TL;DR: Multiprocessing isn't some goddamn panacea. There are many (I'd say MOST, to be honest) real-world problems that have extremely low parallelization opportunity levels. Processor performance will always be M > (M/N)*N (M being mhz, N being number of processors, assuming all other things equal. 3000mhz > (3000mhz/3)*3) )

Physics calculations are one of those low parallelization things; the state of each component relies on the state of other components, so any multi-threaded approach will spend a great deal of time waiting on other components to update, giving it a low percentage maximum improvement.

Here's a short, abstract, and very simple example of the problem (assume some pseudo-C that doesn't do constant math at compile time ):

int A,B;

A = 5 + 1;

B = A / 2;

There's no way to solve the second line without first solving the first line. If each line is assigned to a thread (and thereby potentially a CPU or core, assuming your thread library doesn't suck eggs), the second line's thread will have to wait on the result of the first line's result, giving you a maximum 0% speedup. Note that thread synchronization isn't free, so the speedup number would actually be negative.

Granted this is a very simplified example, but it shouldn't be too hard to extrapolate this to an impulse arriving at part A, which then moves, and that movement causes an impulse on part B due to them being attached by a spring-like physics connection.

To see the opposite of this scenario, there's always the famous Mandelbrot Fractal, where individual pixels are entirely unrelated. Although even here in this best-case scenario, you have to take into account thread creation/retirement time and such and realize that limiting the subdivision may result in faster execution (ex. one thread per span/row/set of rows of pixels instead of one per pixel).

(NB: multi-core CPUs aren't magic. It's just SMP-on-a-chip)

I'm quite positive that it could turn out to be a very enjoyable game on Wii U.

Sure, if it(KSP..well, or the Pee) was redesigned from the ground up.

EDIT: Wow. My long post is long. Here's a summary: No, u~

[Randazzo]

If you bought the game and want to influence it, being clear and opinionated is the way to save it.

Save it from what? Making oodles of cash?

Or from personal predictions based on assumptions that it will fail on [insert console here]?

KSP has an opportunity to be the king space simulator for a long time, but they're wasting their lead.

Name another that's even similar?

You can say Orbiter, I suppose, but the similarities end with "making rockets go up".

Squad was a marketing company before they dabbled in the arcane and created KSP. They know how to sell things (and therefore make money), and that's what they are doing. This is not even to mention that fact that they said they would be releasing KSP on every compatible outlet way back in the early days, so they are actually keeping their promise.

Edited August 31, 2015 by Randazzo

[cantab]

Name another that's even similar?

You can say Orbiter, I suppose, but the similarities end with "making rockets go up".

SimpleRockets and SimplePlanes, whose own developers have admitted they owe a lot to KSP. Neither game has quite the scope of KSP, SimpleRockets being 2D while SimplePlanes lacks the space aspect, but the similarities are strong. A hypothetical SimpleRockets2 could quite plausibly be a better KSP than KSP itself.

[Randazzo]

SimpleRockets and SimplePlanes, whose own developers have admitted they owe a lot to KSP. Neither game has quite the scope of KSP, SimpleRockets being 2D while SimplePlanes lacks the space aspect, but the similarities are strong. A hypothetical SimpleRockets2 could quite plausibly be a better KSP than KSP itself.

Seems to me it's similarities also end at "making rockets go up", though it's not really "up" when you've only got 2 dimensions. I'd love to delve into how a sequel to this could be better than KSP, but this isn't the thread for it.

[Plume & Akakak]

Nobody shouted at the heavens when Pitfall II was ported to ColecoVision.

[Chowderpat]

In my opinion, even though the Wii U isn't the most powerful and up to date system, I think it'll run pretty smoothly. KSP runs on my laptop, and my laptop can hardly run anything.

[KSK]

Nobody shouted at the heavens when Pitfall II was ported to ColecoVision.

You sure? I'd place a small wager that there were probably a good few grumpy threads on alt.fan.pitfall.

[Superfluous J]

Nobody shouted at the heavens when Pitfall II was ported to ColecoVision.

You sure? I'd place a small wager that there were probably a good few grumpy threads on alt.fan.pitfall.

There was probably an uproar when fire was ported to torches.

"Torch never hold fire! Fire need pit!"

[nightingale]

There was probably an uproar when fire was ported to torches.

"Torch never hold fire! Fire need pit!"

Off topic: "Me am play gods!"

http://dresdencodak.com/2009/09/22/caveman-science-fiction/

On topic: In the end, it's a simple equation - porting to more systems => more revenue => more incentive to continue developing KSP.

[Red Iron Crown]

On topic: In the end, it's a simple equation - porting to more systems => more revenue => more incentive to continue developing KSP.

It baffles me that so many find this so difficult to understand.

[Guest]

It baffles me that so many find this so difficult to understand.

porting to more systems --> terrible ports --> I would rather not write this, but we all know games like this. And how it ends.

[Maizel]

Well, if anything it is good that Wii U-ers get to play KSP.

And I understand them wanting to have as large a consumer base as possible, I just hope they are not spreading themselves too thinly. Lots of work still needs to be done on the PC version.

[Plume & Akakak]

Nobody shouted at the heavens when Pitfall II was ported to ColecoVision.

You sure? I'd place a small wager that there were probably a good few grumpy threads on alt.fan.pitfall.

There was probably an uproar when fire was ported to torches. "Torch never hold fire! Fire need pit!"

My old gas Eden, it's all broken !

[tater]

On topic: In the end, it's a simple equation - porting to more systems => more revenue => more incentive to continue developing KSP.

This.

Plus what Red Iron Cloud added.

My kids have a WiiU, so I'll likely buy this since I feel like the 20-something bucks I paid Squad was't nearly enough.

[absprouse]

Quote

So even if by some miracle it actually runs on that system, it will not sell well at all and is doomed for failure.

The Wii U might not have enough power to run ships built out of 1000 wings, but I bet it can run its way to Eeloo.

Plus Unity should be able to run KSP on a Wii U, as several Wii U games use Unity. (I think) 

 

[Rocket In My Pocket]

Why all the hate? The more the merrier!

As far as technical limitations, have a little faith in Squad, they wouldn't have taken on a huge undertaking like a console port if they weren't confident it could be pulled off, at the end of the day they are a business and they exist to make a profit.

Personally I think a Nintendo console is a great place to reach a wider and younger audience, who may when they get older want to play KSP on the PC with the big boys.

[Overland]

I dont have a wii-u yet..im sure like many others the lack of good games pulled me back from making the purchase.. With that said if KSP came to it..id buy one... Why? Because some casual alternate control scheme KSP would supliment my pc with dedicated steering wheel.. Its a wonderful direction to take ksp.. A less serious approach that will be no doubt enjoyed by many. Perhaps even fire off a spark of science in younger players leading to a better future .

 

Squad is\was a marketing company KSP was a surprise hit...dont blame them for wanting to branch out for more exposure.. It benefits us all in the long run

 

And if KSP on consoles taints those who would be of the master race...

Feel free to boot up orbiter and once again feel exclusive...elite..and somewhat alone

[322997am]

I'm am a pc guy but... Space is for everyone so as long as pc updates don't get delayed I'm all for it.