[1.12.5] Cormorant Aeronology - Mk3 Space Shuttle

[gusteks13]

what i installed the mod and launched the ksp but loading has freezed what

[StahnAileron]

1 hour ago, Jasseji said:

I'm sorry to necro this reply but i have really big problems with docking, no other vessel creates those as this shuttle...

I have moved the Docking adapter as far back as possible, it's not in the CoM of course but that wasnt the case during the earlier pictured MiR docking

I am not able to dock this at all when controlling from docking port, the torque on the OMS pods is just too big - i have tried precision mode as well but no luck.

Any tips here ?

Manual, MechJeb, all no success

Are you also using the RCS nosecone this mod includes? I haven't flown a shuttle with this mod yet (I've tested a design, but haven't tried it out in all scenarios), but I would think the OMS pod and the nosecone together should be somewhat balanced when used together.

On the other hand, in precision mod, are you using short, quick bursts, or long, continuous bursts? The former I find is far easier to keep control (it gives SAS time to catch up on the stability and the output is kept low since it takes time to ramp thrust power.)

Lastly, you realize you can adjust/limit the thrust level on RCS ports like you can with engines, right? That should help with minimizing torque on translations.

[Jasseji]

32 minutes ago, StahnAileron said:

Are you also using the RCS nosecone this mod includes? I haven't flown a shuttle with this mod yet (I've tested a design, but haven't tried it out in all scenarios), but I would think the OMS pod and the nosecone together should be somewhat balanced when used together.

On the other hand, in precision mod, are you using short, quick bursts, or long, continuous bursts? The former I find is far easier to keep control (it gives SAS time to catch up on the stability and the output is kept low since it takes time to ramp thrust power.)

Lastly, you realize you can adjust/limit the thrust level on RCS ports like you can with engines, right? That should help with minimizing torque on translations.

Yes, i am using both, my main problem is the roll, i somehow cant get it under control no matter what i do

[StahnAileron]

5 hours ago, Jasseji said:

Yes, i am using both, my main problem is the roll, i somehow cant get it under control no matter what i do

Ah... Yeah, roll would be a problem due the offset of the OMS RCS pack. The only thing I could suggest would be to add secondary RCS thruster underneath the rear of the shuttle to balance out the top OMS RCS. In fact, there IS an underside RCS part in this pack, though I have yet to figure out how it should be attached to look right without lots of manual offsetting.

[Spike88]

On 3/24/2017 at 8:51 AM, Pak said:

I don't think there's a Tac-LS patch but I may have missed it. Right now I have Snacks and USI-LS

I'm a scrub at code, any suggestions on where to start so I can write one?

[Jasseji]

9 hours ago, StahnAileron said:

Ah... Yeah, roll would be a problem due the offset of the OMS RCS pack. The only thing I could suggest would be to add secondary RCS thruster underneath the rear of the shuttle to balance out the top OMS RCS. In fact, there IS an underside RCS part in this pack, though I have yet to figure out how it should be attached to look right without lots of manual offsetting.

yes, have tried to put it there already, anyway, will have to try maybe with RCS Aid but for now - Back to Apollo Style

[Pak]

@Spike88 You could check out the included LS patches for the basic structure and a Tac-LS patch for the details on those resources.

 

@Jasseji Your best bet is to disable yaw on the OMS pods and Pitch/roll on the nose. Using the RCS in short bursts when translating left/right will limit the rolling. Unfortunately the stock RCS will fire any engine within 90degrees of the desired direction, so there's a bit of extra torque caused by the OMS pod set up. I've tried a few ways to cheat the system but nothing has panned out so far.

Take it slow and you'll get there. Keep in mind it's a huge heavy craft, so you'll want to keep your docking speeds lower than you might be used to

[Capt. Hunt]

17 hours ago, gusteks13 said:

what i installed the mod and launched the ksp but loading has freezed what

this is a common problem, you probably ran out of usable RAM.  If your computer has more then 4GB of RAM, run KSP from the x64 executable, if not, get more RAM.

[Spike88]

On 4/3/2017 at 1:17 AM, Pak said:

@Spike88 You could check out the included LS patches for the basic structure and a Tac-LS patch for the details on those resources.

I'll take a look at it on Friday and see what I can come up with.

[smotheredrun]

So I stuck some Apollo Launch Clamps on the wings, an Umbilical arm on the ET, and 2 Launch Towers (1 on either side) on the Cockpit, (all from FASA) and when I staged the tower gantry the entire vehicle suffered a C.R.U.D* incident.

I'll try to replicate and post a pic or two, but every part had Autostrut to root or grandparent and Rigid Attachment.

Thoughts?

[minepagan]

7 minutes ago, smotheredrun said:

So I stuck some Apollo Launch Clamps on the wings, an Umbilical arm on the ET, and 2 Launch Towers (1 on either side) on the Cockpit, (all from FASA) and when I staged the tower gantry the entire vehicle suffered a C.R.U.D* incident.

I'll try to replicate and post a pic or two, but every part had Autostrut to root or grandparent and Rigid Attachment.

Thoughts?

Welcome to launch clamps.

It helps if you install KJR, I've found.

[Pak]

Rigid attach is the issue. I wouldn't recommend it on the shuttle body either as it'll fall apart on landing sometimes. 

On launch, craft loading creates a bunch of weird forces and the clamps tend to make that much worse. Making everything rigid means nothing will bend so you get huge breaking torque on all the joints in that short loading time. 

KJR is also useful as it eases that physics load

If you just auto strut the shuttle and SRB noses to the ET you shouldn't have any issues

Also I noticed the Fasa gantry collider seems to clip into some parts,  so when you stage it'll shove your craft pretty hard

[notJebKerman]

I have a problem with docking this spacecraft. At first, I thought the problem is docking port (CxA's APAS) but I have no trouble docking capsules or even bigger space station modules. But both STS-12 and STS-13 failed to dock. The problem is, that for some reason navball and alignment indicator show me that the target (PMA-2/3) is ~1m above its actual position. And once I do the soft docking, turning on SAS and pointing to target to fully align the ports before retracting the ring results with shuttle just starting to move uncontrollably. Anyone with the same problem?

[Pak]

Could you recreate and show some pictures along with what your 'control from' is set to?

[notJebKerman]

1 minute ago, Pak said:

Could you recreate and show some pictures along with what your 'control from' is set to?

'control from' is set to the shuttle docking port. I'll post some screenshots when I get to my computer. 

[smotheredrun]

10 hours ago, Pak said:

Rigid attach is the issue. I wouldn't recommend it on the shuttle body either as it'll fall apart on landing sometimes. 

On launch, craft loading creates a bunch of weird forces and the clamps tend to make that much worse. Making everything rigid means nothing will bend so you get huge breaking torque on all the joints in that short loading time. 

KJR is also useful as it eases that physics load

If you just auto strut the shuttle and SRB noses to the ET you shouldn't have any issues

Also I noticed the Fasa gantry collider seems to clip into some parts,  so when you stage it'll shove your craft pretty hard

Rigid attach - scrapping - will test Soon^TM

Physics Load - yeah.. weird s%&@# happens to some of my bigger ships on launch.

KJR - will try it again.  It had issues with one or two mods in my current career save.

Auto Struts - will continue to Auto-strut the $^&# out of stuff

FASA Gantry - yeah, it has decapitated a few KSO shuttles and my Mun Rockets when I don't have them in pairs.  I just figured out some MM patches for another mod, maybe I'll see if I can find something in the Gantry cfg to make them less "Decapitatey"

[Spike88]

@PakAlright, I've taken a look at things and I'm ready to start the patch, but I have a few questions on how you balanced your version of the shuttle. First, from my research the shuttles were originally designed for 7 Earth days of food per crew member, and any mission over any 10 days was considered EDO missions. Is it fair to assume that your shuttle would fly 7 Kerbin day missions on average, and thus would need that amount of supplies?

Right now with the default TAC-LS, the shuttle comes with enough food, water, and oxygen for a crew of 4 to last 4 days and 3 hours, or 2 days with a crew of 6. I'm thinking of bumping this so that a standard crew of 4 can get 7 days of supplies just from the cockpit. How many days would you say the EDO and EMS extend the missions by?

 

I tried comparing the Kerbalism patch, but I couldn't find how much a Kerbal consumes in a day in Kerbalism.

Edited April 7, 2017 by Spike88

[Pak]

@Spike88 Sounds great. Thanks for putting the time in.

I shoot for 7 kerbin days for 6 crew with just the cockpit

For EDO missions 2 food boxes should add another 7 days, and the EDO pallet should bring along the extra oxygen needed. If you really want to get into the weeds, the fuel cells produced a lot of the drinking water for the missions as well, but you could just put the extra into the EDO pallet.

 

Speaking of 6-seat cockpits. If you guys aren't using @Daelkyr's mid-deck, you should be.

 

[smotheredrun]

 

@ spike88

Would you mind if I took a look at your TAC-LS patch to see about adopting it into another mod?

 

Edited April 8, 2017 by smotheredrun
my phone hates me

[Spike88]

Just now, smotheredrun said:

http://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/profile/30351-spike88/

Would you mind if I took a look at your TAC-LS patch to see about adopting it into another mod?

 

I'm working on it right now, but sure. I'll probably upload it within an hour.

[smotheredrun]

No rush. I'm at a wedding right now

[Drew Kerman]

3 hours ago, Spike88 said:

but I couldn't find how much a Kerbal consumes in a day in Kerbalism.

visit ShotgunNinja's profile and look back through his posts. Within the last month or so he addressed daily consumption rates

N/m I went back and looked myself because I wanted to bookmark it but the response led me to the Profiles folder in the Kerbalism install and there you will find consumption rates for each Rule{} node, he has them commented. (1.77 Kg per-day of food, for example). But still, worth reading this post because a "day" to Kerbalism always means 6hrs

Edited April 8, 2017 by Drew Kerman

[Pak]

Hey guys,

Some small changes and bug fixes for update 1.2.2a

v 1.2.2a
Fixes and Changes

- MMU-E rack node fixed to prevent clipping on undock

- ST-25 ISP changed. The sea level/vac values were flipped. This adds a bit more dV on launch. Enjoy

- Increased breaking torque on ET parts to help with initial physics load

- Moved the CoM on Shuttle B further back

- Fixed drag issues on the parachutes

- Reduced MMU fuel

- Other things I likely forgot about and will add if I remember

[Spike88]

@Pak, if I knew you were going to release an update I would've gotten this out earlier :P.

 

Either way, loading up KSP for the final check to make sure my numbers are good, and then I'll upload it.

 

Edit: @Drew Kerman I was able to work out the numbers without it, but thank you anyways.

 

Edit2: Here is the TACLS patch: https://www.dropbox.com/s/rc9ijzwjvc861ts/CATACLS.cfg?dl=0

It also covers @MrMeeb's version of the Shuttle Cockpit.

Right now the EDO Pallet adds 7 days of extra oxygen, and the EMS adds 3.5 days of Food/Water. They do not add extra storage for waste products(I.E. Waste, Waste Water, and Carbon Dioxide). However, excess waste products are just dumped overboard anyways and is only stored for using with recyclers. I'm contemplating moving the extra water from the EMS to the EDO, or possibly removing the extra oxygen/water and making it a by product of the EDO.

Edited April 8, 2017 by Spike88

[Pak]

Thanks @Spike88 for the TAC-LS patch. It's been added to the OP in the Comparability Patches tab and I'll include it in the next release.

I updated the craft file in the OP as well.

On the topic of craft files, would there be any interest in different mission loadouts? I wouldn't mind doing some different examples on how the bay could be set up for a few different types of missions, but not sure how useful that would be.

 

In other news IUS is still in the works and starting to get in game. There's some gameplay issues I have to iron out so it's a bit slow going at the moment.

Edited April 8, 2017 by Pak
craft files