[1.12.5] Cormorant Aeronology - Mk3 Space Shuttle

[Pak]

I'm seeing it now but can't say it's ever given me enough issue to notice. Might be something that happened more recently. My guess would be a slight drag error someplace since it doesn't seem to effect things higher up. I'll poke around and see if I can find what it is

[RandyRawgust]

UPDATE

I've found the cause. I'm an idiot, I accidentally hid a fuel tank side ways in the engine compartment. I have no idea what it was doing in there. Being closest to the engines and on the orbiter it began to draw from it first, thing fly's spectacularly now. Ughh, what a frustrating day over something so stupid. Sorry everyone.

By the way Pak, stellar mod dude. I love how you have this setup with the texture switching and all. Well executed my friend, thanks!

[DJ Reonic]

So, after seeing this latest conversation, I have to ask the stupid question: Is the Shuttle launchable with MechJeb/Gravity Turn? I've tried doing it manually and haven't gotten the results I wanted.

[drtedastro]

The shuttle launches perfect with MechJeb.  You just need to make a few tweaks to the parameters / settings.  I followed Pak's instructions on how to fly and what to do when and added this info to the flight profile for the shuttle in mechjeb.

Rock Solid.

Flying by hand is tricky, but doable.  But i rather spend my time pushing the engineering than flying...

I am working on a short vid to show what i have done for flight to orbit.

But again, Pak's shuttle is rock solid and a joy to fly ..

[DJ Reonic]

I will eagerly await your video, as I want to be able to get a good launch setup to get it into orbit. Last time I tried using MJ to get to orbit, things went badly.

[Pak]

Put together a 2.5x Scale patch with thanks to TheRedTom and PickledTripod for their work they sent in. You can check it out now on Github. It's not perfect, but I'd call it "pretty okay." I'll likely tweek it some more

Works well with QRSS by @pap1723

@RandyRawgustNo worries. Glad you got it figured out.

@DJ Reonic Atmospheric Autopilot and Gravity Turn work great as well. They're both linked in the OP.

 

[drtedastro]

5 hours ago, DJ Reonic said:

I will eagerly await your video, as I want to be able to get a good launch setup to get it into orbit. Last time I tried using MJ to get to orbit, things went badly.

it will be later today or tomorrow.  currently watching eclipse...

cheers.

[DJ Reonic]

On 08/21/2017 at 2:22 PM, drtedastro said:

 

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by DJ Reonic

[drtedastro]

Oh crap, Jeb hit Kerbol AGAIN.

[DJ Reonic]

Deleted

Edited August 29, 2017 by DJ Reonic

[Dgraz22]

@Pak gonna have to check that patch out! i've been using @Nertea's Near Future parts for my ET

[drtedastro]

9 hours ago, DJ Reonic said:

I will eagerly await your video, as I want to be able to get a good launch setup to get it into orbit. Last time I tried using MJ to get to orbit, things went badly.

here is simple vid

Ok, now this shuttle has extra rcs added as it is used to carry my heavy loads up station and LKO orbit (128km).  so at the end, when dumping the ET, it goes squirmy. That was my fault for not turning down / off the extra RCS.

Now, I am getting pics of the AG's, and SRB, SSME and OMS settings.  This was very important for getting this thing to settle down.  but now i am more than happy with what it can do and how well it does it.

I will keep posting stuff as i get it.

Cheers.

[RandyRawgust]

Again, thanks to everyone that helped lol. Can't wait to see that MechJeb video. I start on the pad with the orbiter's back to the water. I just don't know how to setup Mechjeb to not roll, or, to do a 180 roll maneuver so I can launch with my orbiter facing the VAB. (Pretty sure NASA did this to protect the pad and crawler way from acoustics because of the asymmetric launch.)

[drtedastro]

5 hours ago, RandyRawgust said:

Again, thanks to everyone that helped lol. Can't wait to see that MechJeb video. I start on the pad with the orbiter's back to the water. I just don't know how to setup Mechjeb to not roll, or, to do a 180 roll maneuver so I can launch with my orbiter facing the VAB. (Pretty sure NASA did this to protect the pad and crawler way from acoustics because of the asymmetric launch.)

look one post above yours.

cheers.

i am working on getting all of the settings put together.

 

Vid and screen shots for going to orbit with MechJeb

ACTION GROUPS are set as:

1 = toggle fuel cells (all)
2 = toggle SSME gimbal
3 = shutdown SSME 
4 = toggle oms gimbal
5 = toggle oms
6 = 
7 = 
8 = toggle control surfaces (note:I use Mod Actions by Diazo to allow me to control the control surfaces from the action groups)
9 = toggle airbrake deploy
0 = 

Ok, looking at the 01 SRB Settings.png, I have set the Yaw, Pitch and Roll to ON. The gimbal is free BUT the range has been toned down to 5.0

For 02 SSME (for both lower).png, NOTE: These settings are for BOTH of the LOWER SSME. Gimbal is LOCKED for liftoff.  Pitch and Roll are ON and Yaw is OFF.  Gimbal range for the SSME's has been lowered to 10.5

For 03 SSME (for upper single).png, NOTE These settings are for ONLY the UPPER SSME. Gimbal is LOCKED for liftoff.  Pitch, Roll AND YAW are on.  Gimbal range is set to 10.5.

For 04 OMS both.png. Pitch, Yaw and Roll are on and Gimbal is locked.

For 05 control surfaces.png, All control surfaces are INACTIVE.  This keeps them locked and keeps from introducing any wobble into the system during trip to orbit.  AG8 is set to toggle Pitch and Roll on for the large Elevons, Pitch on for the small Elevons, pitch on for body flap and Yaw on for the vertical stab fin.

For 06 MechJeb Ascent Guidance.png, Ok, lots going on here.  First I use "Classic Ascent Profile" for guidance.  In the Ascent Path Editor, i am not using Auto Alt Turn, i prefer to set to what is shown.  Turn Start is at 2.5.  I DONT want to do anything other than roll maneuver until i get some alt and speed.  The turn shape is at 60% and turn end at 80.  I use 128 km's for all of me KSS "Kerbal Space Shuttle" missions as the target injection orbit.  The turn shape, end alt and final flight path angle work for ME for these flights.

I set the limit throttle to 60% for low weight flights.  If really low weight I will lift off with the 60% set.  If i have < 10 ton then I will start with 70%.  For heavier liftoffs I will de-select the limit throttle until start of gravity turn and then turn it on to ease the flight.  I am watching the Ascent Path Editor to see how the shuttle is handling the cargo and adjust % power to the SSME's as needed. 

I use -180 for forced roll climb and turn.  NOTE:  I deselect it for liftoff and do not turn it on until i have cleared the tower "so to speak".  I wait to make sure all gimbals and guidance have stabilized and THEN is turn on the forced roll.  Again, I turn this on after I have 80 to 100 meters above ground.

I keep the gimbals lock during initial vertical part of climb.  Pak has done and excellent job in balancing this beast and this keeps any excess wobble from being introduced.  The gimbals in the SRB's do fine for most of the work and do all of the work to establish my head down, external tank up flight mode.

Once the gravity turn has started i use AG2 to unlock gimbals for SSME's.  you will see the pitch indicator go from hard lock to mid = trimmed in a few seconds.  Again, Pak did excellent with the balance of these shuttles and external tank/srb's.  Rember that one of the SSME's has YAW enabled.  that is the upper single one.  it does fine at keeping ship centered on desired inclination and does not introduce excessive wobble.

I keep eye on the ascent path to see how we are doing.  if starting to go under curve, add more power (little bit at at time in the "limit throttle %", and if above, pull some power.

depending on how much cargo the ship will get into orbit just using the LF / ET which means it gets stuck in orbit if you dont force the dropping of it before periapsis get too high.  if you have 10-14 tons you will drop ET usually during circ burn and then switch to OMS to finish.

 

Ok, lots done and i am sure i missed somethings, but hopefully you get the idea.  Let me know if you need more help and i will try.  I dont have much time this week, but i will try.

Again, this has all come from what Pak put together on flying these shuttles.  I just did many, MANY flights to get it down for MJeb to handle it for me.  I dont do ksp for flight sim.  been there, done that.  I enjoy ksp for engineering and 'other' fun.  I let MechJeb do its part and i am just there is something goes wrong.  Don't let Bill drive.  He and shuttles do NOT get along and he WILL crash it...  lol..

Cheers and all the best to anyone who want to try this.

Cheers.

 

 

Edited August 22, 2017 by drtedastro
more info

[Dgraz22]

hey @Pak , if you wouldn't mind taking a look at the 2.5x scale SRB thrust curves, that would be awesome. they seem to fly perfectly nominal until 1/5ths fuel remaining, and then coast at 375kn until burnout, which (with a 18t test payload) doesn't happen until over 70km in altitude. other than that, the orbiter stack flies great in 2.5x scale. keep up the good work!

Edited August 22, 2017 by Dgraz22
fractions are hard sometimes...

[notJebKerman]

@Pak The new CryoEngines patch has a few problems... The engine now has both a cryogenic and LFO engine and on staging both ignite. Also, LH2 engine has no FX

[gc1ceo]

8 hours ago, drtedastro said:

look one post above yours.

cheers.

i am working on getting all of the settings put together.

 

Vid and screen shots for going to orbit with MechJeb

 

 Two initial questions:

How did you edit the gimbal roll? TweakEverything is utterly broken for me, so wasn't sure if you had another mod that did that?

How did you get the ascent profile dropdown menu?

[drtedastro]

5 minutes ago, gc1ceo said:

 Two initial questions:

How did you edit the gimbal roll? TweakEverything is utterly broken for me, so wasn't sure if you had another mod that did that?

How did you get the ascent profile dropdown menu?

Hello gc1ceo,

I am using MechJeb 733 from the dev list.  That is where the ascent types are located.  That came about a few dev versions ago.  Very, very nice.

For the gimbal tweaks, i am using AdvancedTweakables from AquilaEnterprises.  

I am using KSP 1.3 64 bit on a win7 pro 64 machine.  32 GB ram and nvidia GeForce GTX 690 dual GPU video card.  The reason i mention that is that I am running over 80 mods on this test / play build, so i have to look around to see where i get some of this stuff from.  lol.

I hope that helps, please let me know how you are coming along. Keep sending questions and I will keep trying to answer.

Cheers.

 

[gc1ceo]

24 minutes ago, drtedastro said:

Hello gc1ceo,

I am using MechJeb 733 from the dev list.  That is where the ascent types are located.  That came about a few dev versions ago.  Very, very nice.

For the gimbal tweaks, i am using AdvancedTweakables from AquilaEnterprises.  

I am using KSP 1.3 64 bit on a win7 pro 64 machine.  32 GB ram and nvidia GeForce GTX 690 dual GPU video card.  The reason i mention that is that I am running over 80 mods on this test / play build, so i have to look around to see where i get some of this stuff from.  lol.

I hope that helps, please let me know how you are coming along. Keep sending questions and I will keep trying to answer.

Cheers.

 

Oh definitely that works, I can't wait till the profiles are part of the main build, I'm always a bit weary of the dev builds but I might give it a shot.

Ok I'll look up AdvancedTweakables.

32 GB of ram and that video card, I hate you *grins*

I've been tweaking things and having more and more luck, I can get it into orbit most of the time now so mostly just trying to make the process more efficient and precise at this point.

[drtedastro]

sounds good.  

It took me over 25 launches to get to the point i am now.  Not many sat's into orbit, but plenty of abort training, and emergency landings for Val.

Cheers.

[gc1ceo]

3 hours ago, drtedastro said:

sounds good.  

It took me over 25 launches to get to the point i am now.  Not many sat's into orbit, but plenty of abort training, and emergency landings for Val.

Cheers.

Most of mine make it to orbit now, although the AdvancedTweakables button doesn't open up gimbal range though, that's my first major problem left over is I can't modify the gimbal range.

[drtedastro]

5 hours ago, gc1ceo said:

Most of mine make it to orbit now, although the AdvancedTweakables button doesn't open up gimbal range though, that's my first major problem left over is I can't modify the gimbal range.

I will look and try to see where that comes in from.

Strange, i just loaded a bare bones ksp to check.  no mods, none.

and the gimbal free . locked us there and the gimbal limitation.

[gc1ceo]

16 hours ago, drtedastro said:

I will look and try to see where that comes in from.

Strange, i just loaded a bare bones ksp to check.  no mods, none.

and the gimbal free . locked us there and the gimbal limitation.

Yea I got gimbal limit but thats about how much force is applied not its range, I played with gimbal limit some but that actually make the problems worse since then gimbals couldn't compensate as well during the ascent. I also got the gimbal lock too as thats part of the standard advanced tweakables.

 

EDIT:

If anybody wants to see what I'm working with specifically this is my modification of Pak's Mk 3 orbiter with modifications to an extent based on drtedastro's instructions. I have removed the entire payload as an approximation of STS-1. I also removed the decals for simplicity.

 

My STS-1 Orbiter

Edited August 23, 2017 by gc1ceo

[Dano818]

On 8/16/2017 at 11:40 PM, Pak said:

@Sweice in stock no, in RO yes

 

 

Finally tracked down same nagging issues with the new engines so things are getting all cleaned up with the LRBs. Mostly just finishing up textures now.

Here's a little peek at the decals too. Uses mesh switch to change names/styles. I'll provide the real shuttle names and you can plug in your own names to the texture sheet. The name plate and right wing flag use the same texture space, so if you put in your own name it'll be available for both.

Just curious how to get the realistic ones? i tried to edit the photo like you mentioned.. but it just glitched out and tried to have that one whole image on the part.

Thanks,

Dano

[Dgraz22]

@Dano818 if you are able to, use a photo editor like paint.net (downloadable) and edit the file in there (place a text box over the area you want the name to appear, type your text in and deselect the box), save the file to the origin (CA_Decals folder, under assets), and then try running the game from where you normally do. place the part on your shuttle, and shuffle through the names until you get the one you want for that mission! (i recommend you leave the default shuttle names in their places on the folder, and place your new ones in the blank slots on the right side) i hope this helps!