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[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.13.0 "Забытый" 13/Aug/2023)

CobaltWolf

By CobaltWolf
in KSP1 Mod Releases

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Nertea

Nertea

Posted
Posted

I can't speak for what exact values, but if you want to convert things to CryoEngines fuel configuration levels, it's pretty simple:

  1. Take the total volume of the tank in KSP units (eg, 6400 for the Jumbo-64)
  2. Multiply the total volume by 6 to get the amount of LH2 and 0.4 to get the amount of Oxidizer
  3. Multiply the total volume by 0.0004 to get the new dry mass of the tank

Your total stage mass will decrease significantly, I make no promises about how realistic this is or what. 

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CobaltWolf

CobaltWolf

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20 minutes ago, SpaceBadger007 said:

I DIDN'T KNOW THERE WAS A MANUAL! so much stuff to do now and how to do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh I forgot to put this in the post above but when trying to dock with the Gemini, the service modual has no reverse/forward RCS, making it a little tedious when docking, if you go to fast, having to turn around and thrust way, so if its possible to add that in, that would be awesome!

15 minutes ago, Cdw2468 said:

I haven't played with Gemini in a while as I'm still in mercury in 1 career save, and in the shuttle era in another, but isn't there external rcs blocks that you put on? I remember reading that in the manual

Yes, there are two sets of RCS blocks you need to put on. I figured he'd figure it out after seeing the manual. :) There are 4 that go at 45 degrees around the bottom of the SM, which provide the rotation control for the whole Gemini. And then 4 that go at the top of the SM, which have all the missing translation thrusters. I recommend disabling the attitude control on those, and disabling the translation on the 2way ones to put on the bottom of the SM. The RCS in the nose was, IRL, used for control during reentry and is disabled by default.

1 minute ago, awsumindyman said:

@Jso, I know, I'm in a 2x rescale, so I guess I should probably fill the tanks to max?

I think that 2x is 'realistic - easy' and 3x is more 'realistic-harder'. Like, you still have a fair bit of leeway with a 2x I *think*. I don't playtest the mod that much (Maya and Photoshop 4 dayz) so that's just hearsay.

 

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Noah_Blade

Noah_Blade

Posted
Posted (edited)
35 minutes ago, awsumindyman said:

 

35 minutes ago, awsumindyman said:

@Jso, I know, I'm in a 2x rescale, so I guess I should probably fill the tanks to max?

 

30 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

I think that 2x is 'realistic - easy' and 3x is more 'realistic-harder'. Like, you still have a fair bit of leeway with a 2x I *think*. I don't playtest the mod that much (Maya and Photoshop 4 dayz) so that's just hearsay.

 

@awsumindyman and @CobaltWolf all currently 'full release' parts scale perfectly with 2X scale, better than stock solar system IMO.

Edited by Noah_Blade
edit mode merged instead of editing my post :p
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Jso

Jso

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Posted
18 minutes ago, Nertea said:

I can't speak for what exact values, but if you want to convert things to CryoEngines fuel configuration levels, it's pretty simple:

  1. Take the total volume of the tank in KSP units (eg, 6400 for the Jumbo-64)
  2. Multiply the total volume by 6 to get the amount of LH2 and 0.4 to get the amount of Oxidizer
  3. Multiply the total volume by 0.0004 to get the new dry mass of the tank

Your total stage mass will decrease significantly, I make no promises about how realistic this is or what. 

We just let the CryoEngines configs handle it now. What I'm pondering is changing that to 3.75 units LH2 and 0.25 oxidizer, with a 0.0002 dry mass. Basically reduce the 10 liters of LH2 per fuel unit to 5 liters per unit, and keep the fuel mass ratio the same. I'm hesitating, because if you scroll back 50 or so pages we downscaled Saturn quite a bit to appease the 3.75 meter gods. That should have killed it when we upscale kerbin beyond 3x or so, but we've got it flying in 64k. The overstuffed LH2 (and cheating a little on the S-IC stage) saved it.

 

32 minutes ago, awsumindyman said:

@Jso, I know, I'm in a 2x rescale, so I guess I should probably fill the tanks to max?

I don't know the dv requirements for 2x off the top of my head. You've got about 7500 with full tanks. That's probably too much for 2x but I'm not sure.

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Jimbodiah

Jimbodiah

Posted
Posted

2x is not that much different than stock Kerbin. 3.2x is an optimum for stock parts and realistic looking rockets without needing to tinker with ISP/Thrust in custom patches. I'm actually running RSS with a custom patch to raise ISP/Thrust of engines so that stock parts work in RSS without needing the insane Realism Overhaul to balance everything out, yet still having rockets that look like the real thing and having roughly real-life values (the Saturn V will just make it to the moon, instead of having enough dV to go to Jool). It's quite easy and a lot of fun playing with a real scaled earth that does not look like a distant basketball when only in a 300km orbit, but where 300km is actually just out of the atmosphere with a huge earth whizzing by underneath. The Saturn would feel much more at home there and I would recommend trying it out to anyone. I can link to the patch if anyone wants to try but does not know how to use Module Manager patches to change their parts (it's really simple, no rocket science or anything, but those are often the best solutions).

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CobaltWolf

CobaltWolf

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2 hours ago, birdog357 said:

Will this work in an RO/RSS install?

30 minutes ago, legoclone09 said:

I think a few engines have RO configs, but that's all.

Correct. The only stuff with RO configs are most of the engines. I'm hoping the RO guys take another look at the mod in the future. :)

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CobaltWolf

CobaltWolf

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Hey y'all, today's dev notes have solidified my course of action. Given that we wont have a release this week, Friday will only be a dev release for BDB. I'm aiming to stream Friday and possibly Thursday to put the finishing touches on Saturn, and pack it up for a 1.2pre dev release. You'll be able to play with all the finished parts and test them for us while Squad finishes up the 1.2 release. Once that's out, hopefully we'll be able to push out BDB v1.0 'Eagle', and move to the Add-on Releases board. :)

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komodo

komodo

Posted
Posted
8 hours ago, Jso said:

We just let the CryoEngines configs handle it now. What I'm pondering is changing that to 3.75 units LH2 and 0.25 oxidizer, with a 0.0002 dry mass. Basically reduce the 10 liters of LH2 per fuel unit to 5 liters per unit, and keep the fuel mass ratio the same. I'm hesitating, because if you scroll back 50 or so pages we downscaled Saturn quite a bit to appease the 3.75 meter gods. That should have killed it when we upscale kerbin beyond 3x or so, but we've got it flying in 64k. The overstuffed LH2 (and cheating a little on the S-IC stage) saved it.

 

I don't know the dv requirements for 2x off the top of my head. You've got about 7500 with full tanks. That's probably too much for 2x but I'm not sure.

Does that entail adjusting the propellant ratios on the engines? I'm all for balancing for fun and profit (duh), but I can just see a potential issue if someone tried to use the engines on a non-BDB tank. This is also at 3 am, so i'm probably misunderstanding something.

(Wasn't it only going sanely in 64x due to massive SMURFFage?... or is that more or less what you mean here... hm.)

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Jso

Jso

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2 hours ago, komodo said:

Does that entail adjusting the propellant ratios on the engines? I'm all for balancing for fun and profit (duh), but I can just see a potential issue if someone tried to use the engines on a non-BDB tank. This is also at 3 am, so i'm probably misunderstanding something.

(Wasn't it only going sanely in 64x due to massive SMURFFage?... or is that more or less what you mean here... hm.)

It's purely a tank volume change, and then only in regards to the LH2 portion. Same 15-1 mixture (check my math, 3.75/0.25=15). Changing that would cause problems, and there's no reason to.

If you want to play:

Spoiler 

B9_TANK_TYPE
{
	name = LH2OStd
	tankMass =  0.00025
	tankCost = 0
	
	RESOURCE
	{
		name = LqdHydrogen
		unitsPerVolume = 3.75
	}
	RESOURCE
	{
		name = Oxidizer
		unitsPerVolume = 0.25
	}
}

 

Switching from 10 liters of LH2 per fuel unit to 5 liters per fuel unit means the cryo tanks will be 62.5% the mass they are now. It's very close to the difference between the 64% scale 4.25 meter S-IVB and the smaller 3.75 meter that we went with. So 64K was working out for Saturn mostly because the cryo stages are fueled as if we went with the bigger scale. That and the S-IC stage got a manually applied similar fuel increase. Were we to make this change we would have to buff the cryo stages back up again for 64K. And rescale the parts 6.375m/4.25m to match the fuel volume. And talk @CobaltWolf into making us a 4.25-2.5m petal adapter to fit it :-)

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Wahgineer

Wahgineer

Posted
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Hey y'all, today's dev notes have solidified my course of action. Given that we wont have a release this week, Friday will only be a dev release for BDB. I'm aiming to stream Friday and possibly Thursday to put the finishing touches on Saturn, and pack it up for a 1.2pre dev release. You'll be able to play with all the finished parts and test them for us while Squad finishes up the 1.2 release. Once that's out, hopefully we'll be able to push out BDB v1.0 'Eagle', and move to the Add-on Releases board. :)

Aw, you're not going to call it Mjolnir like I suggested? Fair enough. Eagle seems more fitting anyways. Maybe us Mjolnir for the MLV/NOVA/ETS update(s)?

Edited by awsumindyman
Posted on mobile. 'nuff said
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CobaltWolf

CobaltWolf

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, awsumindyman said:

Aw, you're not going to call it Mjolnir like I suggested? Fair enough. Eagle seems more fitting anyways. Maybe us Mjolnir for the MLV/NOVA/ETS update(s)?

Probably updates, plural. Once this update is out it will just be working on whatever I feel like working on, so don't expect a massive update with all the missing Saturn stuff. Probably just bits and pieces mixed in with whatever else I worked on during that time. My senior capstone project will continue to ramp up so I don't know how much time I'll have to work on BDB. Probably less than I have for the last few months, but the projects I'm tackling will also be smaller; seeing as the Saturn V / Apollo / LEM stack is pretty much the big daddy of KSP part projects IMO. If possible I'd like to move back to a monthly release schedule, just push out whatever is done at the end of a month or something similar.

23 minutes ago, awsumindyman said:

@CobaltWolf, is this thread gonna die when you move to Add-on releases? Or will it just be transferred?

I was planning on asking for it to be moved. Doesn't feel right to leave behind what is essentially a year of my life :P 

~UPDATE~

So, since my evening opened up, I think I'm going to stream tonight starting ~7PM. Usual place. Be there or be [] (rectangle)

Edited by CobaltWolf
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komodo

komodo

Posted
Posted
9 hours ago, Jso said:

It's purely a tank volume change, and then only in regards to the LH2 portion. Same 15-1 mixture (check my math, 3.75/0.25=15). Changing that would cause problems, and there's no reason to.

If you want to play:

  Reveal hidden contents 


B9_TANK_TYPE
{
	name = LH2OStd
	tankMass =  0.00025
	tankCost = 0
	
	RESOURCE
	{
		name = LqdHydrogen
		unitsPerVolume = 3.75
	}
	RESOURCE
	{
		name = Oxidizer
		unitsPerVolume = 0.25
	}
}

 

Switching from 10 liters of LH2 per fuel unit to 5 liters per fuel unit means the cryo tanks will be 62.5% the mass they are now. It's very close to the difference between the 64% scale 4.25 meter S-IVB and the smaller 3.75 meter that we went with. So 64K was working out for Saturn mostly because the cryo stages are fueled as if we went with the bigger scale. That and the S-IC stage got a manually applied similar fuel increase. Were we to make this change we would have to buff the cryo stages back up again for 64K. And rescale the parts 6.375m/4.25m to match the fuel volume. And talk @CobaltWolf into making us a 4.25-2.5m petal adapter to fit it :-)

I blame 3 am math skills. Yes, that makes sense. It seems as if it's still be a headache non-cryo, but that got hashed out a bit above. 

If not for the petal adapter, 64x dependent scale nodes sound tempting... Hmmmmm!:D

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VenomousRequiem

VenomousRequiem

Posted
Posted (edited)
46 minutes ago, TimothyC said:

Alas, most info on it got pulled in the great NTRS takedown. Given that however, we do have this: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/20000033816.pdf

and this:

You're a saint... AJ260 coming right up. 

 

Update:

0911e46f64.png

Edited by VenomousRequiem
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