[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.14.0 "металл" 30/Sep/2024)

[Pappystein]

13 hours ago, Marcelo Silveira said:

I I remember correctly the 5 F-1 engines managed to hit over 210 dBs at the launch pad. Anything beyond 190 dBs isn't even a sound wave anymore, it's a shockwave!
The Space shuttle hit 180 dB at the payload bay (although the space shuttle barely had any sound insulation for the payload bay. The Falcon-9 hits 131 dB inside the Payload fairing and around 160 dB outside.... So yeah...
the F-1 engine sound is quite LOUD hehehe

FATATLAS has a stage and half design, both Kerbal Engineer and Mechjeb are not capable of calculating the TWR, dV and so on... that's why I did the dV math. I would love to make the dV charts for FATATLAS so people could use it (and maaaaybe someone might want to dive deeper in the number), but I will only have some time available to make them by mid to late December... so... until then... ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 Marcelo is right. At the level of the F-1 engine it is beyond loud.....  It is not a subtractive process but I believe a single F-1 is still around 180-190dB.   And @Marcelo Silveira  194dB is the magic number at most sources.   That 4 extra dB might not seem to be a lot but it is literally almost tripling the energy of the sound-wave.   (each 3dB added DOUBLES the power output)  [edit at-least that is what +3dB does with electricity!]

On the subject of Fatlas.  I re-read your exhaustive walkthrough on the math involved and sad to say my mind is no longer able to do the calculus it once did...  You don't use it you loose it after all.   I may experiment with it but I doubt I could do the justice to it that you have done already to standard Atlas!  Time and Patience will tell

 

[The_Franconian]

Thanks BDB for this supreme addition to KSP! After all these years I now took the time to advance my carreer to the point, where I was able to launch Skylab on a friggin Saturn INT-21! Had to autostrut it (this beast wobbled like woodruff jelly) but it feels awesome to recreate history with KSP. That is something that always fascinated me and I tried hard with "Orbiter" Simuator to get near this but it was a more frustrating than immersive experience, so I searched for an alternative and voila, some day there was KSP (the early days of Version 0.2.X).

Now after some time I'm back and in my opinion it was worth all the wait. Never experienced before, any game with such a superb modding community, as this.

So a big big "Thank you!" goes out to all those who contribute here.

Edited November 2, 2019 by The_Franconian
Sent before it was completed. Sorry... ;-) - Second edit: Fixed a typo.

[CobaltWolf]

1 hour ago, The_Franconian said:

So a big big "Thank you!" goes out to all those who contribute here.

<3

 

Done streaming for the day, will continue to work tomorrow!

Delta engine family:

 

Some work-in-progress payload separation mechanisms

[Pappystein]

39 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

<3

 

Done streaming for the day, will continue to work tomorrow!

Delta engine family:

 

First off AWESOME looking AJ10s... and the TRW TR-201 for Delta P!.    LOVE the color on the new payload decouplers.   are you going to animate the 4 with the springs/pistons to push the payload off?   *DUCKS AND RUNS!*

I am joking about the animation.  96% of the time the player wouldn't even SEE it!  But I see pistons and springs and I feel it move... even if it does not.

[birdog357]

I am having a heck of a time with the Mercury/Atlas falling off it's tail. I don't remember having this much trouble in the past. I'm running FAR if that makes a difference.

[DriftedCougar]

On 11/2/2019 at 3:58 AM, CobaltWolf said:

And man... I've noticed there's a lot of Titan 23G fans around... would have loved to see this upgrade, combined with a few Castor IVAs strapped on...

Hmm..

The only change from the idea is some kerolox fuel because screw hypergolics 
And just to show that it has it...

Sadly the nozzle extension only gives extra ISP right now.

[CobaltWolf]

14 hours ago, Pappystein said:

First off AWESOME looking AJ10s... and the TRW TR-201 for Delta P!.    LOVE the color on the new payload decouplers.   are you going to animate the 4 with the springs/pistons to push the payload off?   *DUCKS AND RUNS!*

I am joking about the animation.  96% of the time the player wouldn't even SEE it!  But I see pistons and springs and I feel it move... even if it does not.

I'm not sure if they'll be animated, I'll mess with it on stream today

10 hours ago, birdog357 said:

I am having a heck of a time with the Mercury/Atlas falling off it's tail. I don't remember having this much trouble in the past. I'm running FAR if that makes a difference.

Hmm, I know we have some special FAR compatibility for the Atlas parts but I don't know what the issue could be. None of the dev team uses (and thus, tests) with FAR. The stock aero is "good enough" these days.

3 hours ago, DriftedCougar said:

Hmm..
The only change from the idea is some kerolox fuel because screw hypergolics 
And just to show that it has it...
Sadly the nozzle extension only gives extra ISP right now.

Indeed, you won't always see a thrust increase from a bigger nozzle like that. I'll double check to see if we should have given it one though.

Dev stream booting back up in a minute!

Edited November 3, 2019 by CobaltWolf

[CobaltWolf]

[tater]

Today is a relevant  anniversary...

 

[Pappystein]

9 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

 

Hmm, I know we have some special FAR compatibility for the Atlas parts but I don't know what the issue could be. None of the dev team uses (and thus, tests) with FAR. The stock aero is "good enough" these days.

 

Stupid... cool..... Stupid.... Cool....  Stupid... New work schedule.   Working 4 10s now but Sunday through Wednesday... no dev stream for me

The issue is not FAR.  It is using a Launch clamp on the Booster Skirt.   Switch to Engine Clamps instead of Skirt clamped...  Works fine.  I have the same issue without FAR... But I am using KJR-relaunched or whatever it is called... and both mods were originally by the same Author...

I will try to check this out in the CFGs Once I get done settling in for the evening @birdog357

52 minutes ago, tater said:

Today is a relevant  anniversary...

Thanks tater!   Love History like that.  Too bad (or is it good) that she never REALLY flew.   That was just an aerodynamic mockup.   Also for those of you wondering.  The Nosecone in the photo is almost a perfect match for the new BDB nose cone.  But the TVC tanks on the Side of the UA1205s is not because the actual UA-1205 modeled in BDB is the most flown SECOND generation (you can tell because it has a smaller TVC tank!)    The 2nd Generation SRM also does not have that thick black band at the top.  the band in the photo above is actually part of the Nosecone... And is only used on MAN RATED UA120x SRMs.   The 2nd Generation Nose cone is therefor shorter because it does not have the cylindrical section that is approximately 2.5 feet thick (1/4th of one segment.)  Yes that means a First Generation UA1205 is about 2.5 feet taller than a second generation UA1205.   All in all there are 2 and a half (3) generations of UA1205s that have flown on Titans.   And 4 Generations were DESIGNED to fly on Titans (and Space Shuttle!)

 

[Pappystein]

So Followup.  I did a Survey between the two Atlas Booster skirts (as I stated I only have issues with CELV Skirt exploding on launch clamp decouple...

I found no issues between the two CFGs.  However in the B9PS portion of the CELV skirt I see references to NODES that are NOT NAMED in the cfg....      And B9PS does not seem to do anything on this part for me in game.

I do not know if this could cause the skirt to explode on Launch clamp decouple or not... But It is not fun to have your engines all go away when you are at maximum lift and just starting to accelerate!

stackSymetry =3 means it is 4x Symetry on things attached (for the engines.)  This is the only real difference between the basic CFG between the two Atlas Skirts.   Will do some actual experimentation after KSP finishes loading.  Will post to Git if if I see anything else.!

[Pappystein]

Ok as stated I am still having issues with CELV (this is tested in both

1.7 Dev and 1.6.1 Release.)

Album 1)  External Launch clamps (not inline engine ones)

Spoiler

Static with engine just fireing to confirm build.   Have not released the clamps (this happens with ALL side attaching clamps stock and modded)

 

Clamps are released and Rocket starts to fly.  Note engines and Central stack (as well as wings) Lift.  But actual Skirt stays where it was.

Skirt overheats and explodes...  Rocket then topples over and crashes.    Interestingly I can HOVER IN the skirt for a long period as the 4 booster engines are IN the skirt and still getting fuel.  Right up until the Skirt explodes....

 

Album 2.  With 4 or 5 Engine attached Launch clamps (only using the FASA 1.25m in this chain of images but even side attaching Clamps that are touching the ENGINE and NOT the skirt work!

Spoiler

Again the only change is the different place clamps attach (engine not the skirt)

Flying away clean

Same launch after I manually shut off 2x H1D engines (H2A + 2x H1D is more than enough thrust at this point!)

 

 

And a quick third album... Focused on the engines.  Using BOTH the sets of launch clamps in previous setups!...   Explosive fun for all.

Spoiler

At ignition

Cue up Korn's Falling Away from me?

fall down go boom!

*EDITED*

So I was pretty confident that the issue was due to the new release... and only on the CELV.   Now I am having issues with the stock Atlas Decoupler so I am changing my mod setup and will CONFIRM or DENOUNCE this post in a few minutes (takes time for the game to load.)

 

**RE EDITED**

I left the pretty pictures...  But KerbalJointReinforcement is the cause.     It appears that KJR does not like Decouplers connected to a launch clamp.

I will post up on the KJR Next forum to see what the maintainer/creator can do about creating a way to treat certain docking ports as decouplers instead of docking ports.

 

 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Pappystein

[birdog357]

My problem isn't the skirt sticking. Mine's aerodynamic. I was using a Heinlein phrase to describe the stack swapping ends at max-q. About 2.5g which is a touch before staging. If I stage early I lose control authority and the same thing happens. So in my career, the Atlas failed and the Titan went into service instead. So far I have yet to get a Mercury into orbit. The Titan 1 is just short of making it.

[Pappystein]

9 minutes ago, birdog357 said:

My problem isn't the skirt sticking. Mine's aerodynamic. I was using a Heinlein phrase to describe the stack swapping ends at max-q. About 2.5g which is a touch before staging. If I stage early I lose control authority and the same thing happens. So in my career, the Atlas failed and the Titan went into service instead. So far I have yet to get a Mercury into orbit. The Titan 1 is just short of making it.

Take off the Verniers and see if it flys better.    There WAS a FAR fix for that a year or so ago that I helped to work on.   Basically as the Vernier deflected it was creating too much surface area (... FAR can't handle a Lift Vector combined with a Thrust vector that changes as rapidly as the LR101s can change... never was certain of the exact cause but we found a simple BDB fix to reduce/eliminate the issue.)

[birdog357]

8 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

Take off the Verniers and see if it flys better.    There WAS a FAR fix for that a year or so ago that I helped to work on.   Basically as the Vernier deflected it was creating too much surface area (... FAR can't handle a Lift Vector combined with a Thrust vector that changes as rapidly as the LR101s can change... never was certain of the exact cause but we found a simple BDB fix to reduce/eliminate the issue.)

I'll try that in a bit.

[birdog357]

57 minutes ago, Pappystein said:

Take off the Verniers and see if it flys better.    There WAS a FAR fix for that a year or so ago that I helped to work on.   Basically as the Vernier deflected it was creating too much surface area (... FAR can't handle a Lift Vector combined with a Thrust vector that changes as rapidly as the LR101s can change... never was certain of the exact cause but we found a simple BDB fix to reduce/eliminate the issue.)

Didn't work. It behaves as if the Mercury capsule or escape tower has too much drag.

[Kerbal01]

Sidemount Apollo with titan tank E1 boosters. Actually flyable as is. 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Kerbal01

[Kerbal01]

I can't believe this actually worked. Not without its control issues, but I wrestled it into a 100x500km orbit.

 

Edited November 4, 2019 by Kerbal01

[GoldForest]

35 minutes ago, Kerbal01 said:

I can't believe this actually worked. Not without its control issues, but I wrestled it into a 100x500km orbit.

 

Try making it an energia style setup instead of a shuttle setup. 

Put Vectors on the bottom of the EFT and don't turn on the J-2s until EFT sep. 

[Marcelo Silveira]

9 hours ago, birdog357 said:

Didn't work. It behaves as if the Mercury capsule or escape tower has too much drag

I remember seing something similar due to RealChute. Sometimes it used the dragbox as if the parachute was open.

[CobaltWolf]

If anyone using the current 1.6.0/1.6.1 release has any bugs to report, please do so (and keep an eye out for more) - I am still getting a trickle of things to fix and would like to be able to put the 1.6.x releases to bed after 1.6.2.

[Pappystein]

So I am posting a Git bug report latter today (I need to compile a list of parts first) but some/all of the 1.5m MOSS station parts are, using RealNames, Reporting they are 1.875m size... They have the EXACT same information as the 1.875m MOL Parts they are scaled down from.

 

[blowfish]

Messing around with the new Thor/Delta parts (and re-creating launchers from my last RO career)

Spoiler

 

[Mudwig]

9 minutes ago, blowfish said:

How does that compare to Atlas LV-3C? It seems outwardly like it would be very similar, although the Centaur D would be quite a difference maker compared to HOSS.

[blowfish]

1 minute ago, Mudwig said:

How does that compare to Atlas LV-3C? It seems outwardly like it would be very similar, although the Centaur D would be quite a difference maker compared to HOSS.

Well it's got an X-405-H based kerolox 2nd stage right now, so I would expect performance to be somewhat lower than something Centaur-based.  Probably roughly equivalent to Atlas-Vega (no balloon tanks but also actually dropping the booster tankage)