[1.12.5] Bluedog Design Bureau - Stockalike Saturn, Apollo, and more! (v1.14.0 "металл" 30/Sep/2024)

[CobaltWolf]

31 minutes ago, Rory Yammomoto said:

oh yes! pleasepleasepleasepleasepleasepleaseplease! (collapses on floor gasping for air)

I meant on Friday. Not now. No offense, but seeing screenshots of my own unfinished stuff hurts me in a way I can't describe. I'd rather finish the art first before I start trying to get everyone to playtest + post screenshots @Jso already has the Saturn V (minus a working SLA - oops) on the Github. If anyone wants to try and run a full mission with those parts, I'd appreciate it. I don't really care if you're running on 1.2 or 1.1.3 (if you are on 1.1.3, you need to download the last dev release he packaged) since I'm mostly concerned with balance right now.

32 minutes ago, DiscoSlelge said:

Oh boi we need to talk about the manual doom update so

Oh boy. T.T

@Noah_Blade I told you embedding doesn't work

[legoclone09]

Just now, CobaltWolf said:

finish the art first

Yes. Do this.

That way you can throw it in the game completely incomplete and we can 3D print a beautiful Saturn Shuttle.

[Noah_Blade]

 

Figured it  out! 

Edited September 25, 2016 by Noah_Blade

[Starbuckminsterfullerton]

7 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

Just to keep the thread going, I was putting some more work into getting the J2 done yesterday. Final polycount with those newest pipes is about 5k, so at the upper end of what I like to do. But I think the results are worth it. It has a very basic normal map on in this pic, and it still needs a spec map. That's what I think will really make this part

It looks good even now, and high poly is understandable with all the spherical tanks.

Also YAY BLUE STRIPE! 

[Noah_Blade]

4 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

I'd rather finish the art first before I start trying to get everyone to playtest + post screenshots @Jso already has the Saturn V (minus a working SLA - oops) on the Github. If anyone wants to try and run a full mission with those parts, I'd appreciate it. I don't really care if you're running on 1.2 or 1.1.3 (if you are on 1.1.3, you need to download the last dev release he packaged) since I'm mostly concerned with balance right now.

The H1 Engines are i'm capable of flying a SIVB and Apollo module to altitude it wastes 1/3 of its fuel literally hovering in place at launch [Yes I am using launch claps to prevent the "sticky pad" effect

[CobaltWolf]

1 minute ago, Noah_Blade said:

The H1 Engines are i'm capable of flying a SIVB and Apollo module to altitude it wastes 1/3 of its fuel literally hovering in place at launch [Yes I am using launch claps to prevent the "sticky pad" effect

Are you using the latest release from the Github? Their TWR is still a touch low but also remember that the Saturn 1B could only lift a partially fueled Apollo. Saturn 1 couldn't launch one at all (not enough dV, and not enough TWR on the upper stage) since it was designed for a smaller/lighter spacecraft than what we wound up with.

[Noah_Blade]

1 minute ago, CobaltWolf said:

Are you using the latest release from the Github? Their TWR is still a touch low but also remember that the Saturn 1B could only lift a partially fueled Apollo. Saturn 1 couldn't launch one at all (not enough dV, and not enough TWR on the upper stage) since it was designed for a smaller/lighter spacecraft than what we wound up with.

Yes I am using the latest Github release...and my Apollo only had 1/3 its max fuel

[Abrecan]

4 hours ago, CobaltWolf said:

@Jso already has the Saturn V (minus a working SLA - oops) on the Github. If anyone wants to try and run a full mission with those parts, I'd appreciate it.

on it!

[CobaltWolf]

Well, got a bunch of small things done tonight. Only real thing to show for it tho is this:

Correct me if I'm wrong tho, but I think the only two parts that are really left are the S-II > S-IVB interstage, and the SLA adapter.

[MaverickSawyer]

15 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

Well, got a bunch of small things done tonight. Only real thing to show for it tho is this:

Correct me if I'm wrong tho, but I think the only two parts that are really left are the S-II > S-IVB interstage, and the SLA adapter.

Looking sharp!

*quietly slides cup of Navy-grade coffee onto Cobalt's desk*

Edited September 26, 2016 by MaverickSawyer

[Abrecan]

I tried a couple of launches with the Saturn V, and keep in mind I use Kerbalism and KW SLA; The S-IC seems almost ok... could up the thrust to the F-1,  the dV seems about right (maybe a bit more), but i'm staging @ ~17 or so km (which seems awfully low imo). As the F-1 goes, the thrust could be increased so in the even you don't want to make an uprated F-1 (like the F-1A) you could lower the thrust limiter to compensate. The S-II TWR is horrendous... I know IRL it's all not that great either, but without propellant loading tweaks I was flailing at about 30 km or so with full tanks. J-2 thrust should be increased, or S-II tank needs serious propellant reduction.

There is a gap in the bottom part of the S-IVB / S-II interstage, I had to 'move' the interstage to cover the gap

and another issue: the placement of the fins for the S-IC are messed up: two you have to adjust to look right, and the other two you cannot (and I mean cannot) place them facing outward in the appropriate direction even with use of the rotate button.

 

One other issue is from a kerbalism standpoint. Upon returning to the lunar surface I increased my radiation shielding (little more than half), and filled my mono etc. before I descended to the surface full ec as well - I had little more than enough time to plant the flag, EVA report, sample before my EC was below 50%...and the CSM was almost half way through the nearside. I got back in (and will say the ladder and ramp worked much better this time!!) and ascended - to realize not only is my EC depleting at a rapid pace, I do not have enough dV to get into a proper orbit... I ran out of LFO, but with every drop of my monopropellant I managed to get into a ~6km-7km orbit! By the time my CSM rendezvoused with the Ascent Stage, poor Jeb and Bob were burning alive due to no scrubber from depleted EC... it was a sad day to just get there in time to hear their dying breaths.

So, imo also: increase the EC and lfo in the ascent stage, or EC at least in the descent stage - on the descent stage, I seem to have enough dV to land even with the shielding, but other cargo has not been tested on it, so I cannot make that assumption..

1 hour ago, CobaltWolf said:

Only real thing to show for it tho is this

~snip~

Are those the ullage motors, or just part of the design? the parts look great, but I hope they're not attached to the stage  I have read the ullage/retros on stages as follows :

S-IC - x8 Retrorockets @ 75,800 lbs thrust for 5s

S-II - x4 Ullage Motors @ 23,000 lbs for 4s, x4 Retrorockets @ 34,800 lbs for 1.5s

S-IVB - x2 Ullage Motors @ 3,400 lbs for 4s

you may know that already, but they do look great!

Edited September 26, 2016 by Abrecan

[Jso]

1 hour ago, Abrecan said:

I tried a couple of launches with the Saturn V, and keep in mind I use Kerbalism and KW SLA; The S-IC seems almost ok... could up the thrust to the F-1,  the dV seems about right (maybe a bit more), but i'm staging @ ~17 or so km (which seems awfully low imo). As the F-1 goes, the thrust could be increased so in the even you don't want to make an uprated F-1 (like the F-1A) you could lower the thrust limiter to compensate. The S-II TWR is horrendous... I know IRL it's all not that great either, but without propellant loading tweaks I was flailing at about 30 km or so with full tanks. J-2 thrust should be increased, or S-II tank needs serious propellant reduction.

I'm assuming this is a stock sized Kerbin in 1.1.3 and no cryofuels installed. You need to adjust the fuel. You need a little less than 800 dv to get to the Mun from LKO, so adjust the S-IVB stage to have about 1500 dv (vac). That's a bit less than half fuel and will give you a nice comfort margin. Adjust the S-II for approximately 1600 dv (vac), and the S-IC for 1900 dv (vac). Use whatever dv numbers suit your style, just try to set it up to you're circularizing very soon after the S-IVB stage lights. With LFO you'll be taking a lot of fuel out of the S-IVB and S-II stages. Those are cryo stages in real life and are pretty light compared to a tank full of kerosene/lox. With all that done check your TWR's. You'll find the J2 stages much more comfortable, and the S-IC is probably up around 1.8. I've been dialing the F1s back to about 68%.

Same goes for the Saturn 1B. With a fully loaded CSM it's got over 5000 dv up to the S-IVB stage (and about a 0.98 TWR). Shoot for 3500 dv mostly by taking fuel out of the S-IVB and it will fly much nicer and orbit the CSM. Ideally it circularizes with a short burn from the CSM.

1 hour ago, Abrecan said:

So, imo also: increase the EC and lfo in the ascent stage, or EC at least in the descent stage - on the descent stage, I seem to have enough dV to land even with the shielding, but other cargo has not been tested on it, so I cannot make that assumption..

I moved some fuel from the decent stage to the ascent stage, but I don't remember if that made the 1.1.3 zip. There's a fuel cell on the service module you can turn on. I can't really help you with kerbalism, but if it's drawing that much power you could stick a fuel cell on the decent stage.

[Jimbodiah]

You could use the Community Resources Pack option and use actual LH2 engines like CryoEngines and SSTU do for their J2/RS25/RS68/etc engines.

[Angelo Kerman]

On September 25, 2016 at 8:36 AM, CobaltWolf said:

That's awesome! Do you want to do me a favor, and check to see if the BDB cameras still work with Hullcam? I don't have it installed so I haven't had a chance to check.

Just to keep the thread going, I was putting some more work into getting the J2 done yesterday. Final polycount with those newest pipes is about 5k, so at the upper end of what I like to do. But I think the results are worth it. It has a very basic normal map on in this pic, and it still needs a spec map. That's what I think will really make this part

That looks great!  How did you unwrap the fuel pipes? I'm a bit stuck on the fuel pipes on my KR-1 knockoff, so I was curious.

[CobaltWolf]

2 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

That looks great!  How did you unwrap the fuel pipes? I'm a bit stuck on the fuel pipes on my KR-1 knockoff, so I was curious.

I could try and explain, but hopefully this makes it easier.

[Angelo Kerman]

4 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

I could try and explain, but hopefully this makes it easier.

Thank you, definitely helps.

[Angelo Kerman]

Interesting! It almost looks like pelt mapping in a way.

[Rory Yammomoto]

4 hours ago, Jimbodiah said:

You could use the Community Resources Pack option and use actual LH2 engines like CryoEngines and SSTU do for their J2/RS25/RS68/etc engines.

I second this. It's a waiting game to have a working version  of CryoEngines! (the last post on that thread was 10 days ago and it looks like he isn't going to do anything)

Edited September 26, 2016 by Rory Yammomoto
made it sound smarer and less whiny

[sp1989]

2 minutes ago, Rory Yammomoto said:

I second this. It's a waiting game to have a working version  of CryoEngines! (the last post on that thread was 10 days ago and the source is not openly available for re-compilation)

Are you talking about for 1.2? Because CryoEngines work in 1.1.3

[cxg2827]

7 minutes ago, Rory Yammomoto said:

(the last post on that thread was 10 days ago and the source is not openly available for re-compilation)

Talk about an eternity

[CobaltWolf]

4 minutes ago, cxg2827 said:

Talk about an eternity

We should just declare it dead.

Pretty much just the SLA left...

[Cdw2468]

Just now, CobaltWolf said:

We should just declare it dead.

~snip~

Pretty much just the SLA left...

The hype... It's... It's over 9000!

[Rory Yammomoto]

6 minutes ago, CobaltWolf said:

We should just declare it dead.

sure.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Rory Yammomoto

[Jimbodiah]

12 minutes ago, Rory Yammomoto said:

sure.

@Nertea is going to flip when he reads this, haha   1.2 isn't even released yet, so expecting modders to jump on 1.2 and have their mods finished before an official version is even released, is kind of insane. I expect it will be at least a month or so after release until the dust has settled with mods updating, and I think we will be at KSP 1.2.2 by that time   I'll be playing 1.1.3 for a while, like I did 1.0.5 (still more stable than 1.1.3 is); there's nothing in 1.2 that can't be done with mods right now, so I don't see the use in going the unless I wanted to test things, but never to move my career saves into.

 

[Rory Yammomoto]

Just now, Jimbodiah said:

@Nertea is going to flip when he reads this, haha   1.2 isn't even released yet, so expecting modders to jump on 1.2 and have their mods finished before an official version is even released, is kind of insane. I expect it will be at least a month or so after release until the dust has settled with mods updating, and I think we will be at KSP 1.2.2 by that time   I'll be playing 1.1.3 for a while, like I did 1.0.5 (still more stable than 1.1.3 is); there's nothing in 1.2 that can't be done with mods right now, so I don't see the use in going the unless I wanted to test things, but never to move my career saves into.

 

 I thought that pre-releases also served as a way to get the mods out and developed before the full release drops? It seemed that way in 1.1...