A Different Kind of Realism

[GreenWolf]

Let me start off by stating that this is not a discussion on whether realism is better, or about whether it sacrifices gameplay, or any of the myriad other debates that come up whenever realism is discussed on these forums.

Instead, it is my attempt to describe what I see as a modding niche which has not been filled.

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I, personally, love realism in KSP. It's great, it's challenging, it makes everything I know about real world rocket science even more useful for playing KSP.

However, what I have noticed is that there is a tendency to equate realism to real life. If you're not sure what I mean by that, allow me to explain by example.

Advanced Jet Engines is a mod that changes the physics of in-game jet engines to be more in-line with real physics. This is great, I love that kind of thing. What I don't love is the fact that it replaces all of the stock engines with real world engines.

While I love playing with real physics, I don't want to play with real planets, parts, or people. This is my primary issue with Realism Overhaul. Sure, it makes the physics more realistic, but it also does its best to erase everything kerbal and replace it with real world equivalents.

Now while some people may enjoy this, I don't. I want to be able to play with real physics, while still having the same kerbal planets, the same kerbal engines, and the same kerbal astronauts. This is why I love mods like FAR, which overhaul the physics without changing a single part.

Are there mods that do what I've described? Sure, but they are nowhere near as common or well developed as their counterparts in the "realism = real world" category. I could play with the 10x Kerbol System mod instead of RSS, but it's buggy, less feature complete, and nowhere near as well supported as RSS is.

While I am almost sure that my view is a minority one, there's no rule that says that we can't have niche mods for those minority views.

[Nansuchao]

Currently is in progress a kerbalized version of RSS, so with real planets kerbal sized. There is a Light Realism Overhaul also in Addon development, then you can use Deadly Reentry, Solver Engines and other mods that brings more realism in KSP.

[CobaltWolf]

Currently is in progress a kerbalized version of RSS, so with real planets kerbal sized. There is a Light Realism Overhaul also in Addon development, then you can use Deadly Reentry, Solver Engines and other mods that brings more realism in KSP.

I think the kerbalized RSS is exactly *not* what he wants. He doesn't want the real solar system scaled to Kerbal size, he wants the kerbal planets scaled to kerbal size. Personally I usually play with 64K installed which might be closer to what he's looking for.

[GreenWolf]

I think the kerbalized RSS is exactly *not* what he wants. He doesn't want the real solar system scaled to Kerbal size, he wants the kerbal planets scaled to kerbal size. Personally I usually play with 64K installed which might be closer to what he's looking for.

Almost right. Ideally, it'd be kerbal planets scaled to real size. However, as mentioned, the only mod that does scale the kerbin system to 10x is feature incomplete and buggy. And unlike RSS, there's no massive modpack behind it to back it up. Could one be made? Sure, probably, but it wouldn't be nearly as well supported as RO, and it would almost certainly still have issues with "realism = real world", especially in engines.

64K is probably a better base to start off of, being more developed and better supported.

So what would a 64K Realistic Kerbin System modpack look like? Off the top of my head, it would probably need to have the following:

64K

Ferram Aerospace Research

Real Chute

Real Fuels (with either the stockalike configs or a custom config)

Advance Jet Engines (a modified version that doesn't remove the stock engines)

Real Heat (maybe)

Procedural Parts

Remote Tech

TAC Life Support (or another similar life support mod) (would also need edited configs)

Procedural Wings

Some manner of ISRU

I'm sure I'm missing some things, but that would probably be the core. So I suppose it is possible to make a realistic kerbin pack like I described, but it would require a non-trivial amount of work to get everything to work.

[legoclone09]

Yes, I can help with AJE maybe. I'll look through it soon^TM and try to remove the real engines or just ask the dev to make a version without new engines.

[Joco223]

@GreenWolf You have Real Fuels Stockalike which adds all the real fuels, ullage, ignitions and everything, but doesn't replace anything. Just uses stock engines and many mods are supported

[GreenWolf]

Wow, talk about a thread necro.

I suppose since we're reviving this, I should update on my progress with creating a modlist to fill this niche.

The recent developments of SMURFF and Sigma Dimensions by @Kerbas_ad_astra and @Sigma88 respectively have given me the corner pieces of the puzzle needed to assemble a scaled-up, realistic, kerbalish game.

So let's talk about the rest of the puzzle. I've got myself a good modlist that I'm using for my most recent AAR, but I realize that there are some choices there that might not be for everyone. So let's talk about what other people want out of a Kerbalish Realism Overhaul.

Here's a preliminary list of non-UI or part mods that I think would need to go in, but I'd like to see suggestions and comments from other people too.

• Sigma Dimensions
• SMURFF
• FAR
• KCT
• Stage Recovery
• RemoteTech or Antenna Range (discuss)
• RealChutes
• Life Support – USI, TAC, Snacks, or something else (discuss)
• CTT or ETT (discuss)
• ScanSat

Anything I'm missing? If we can get some kind of consensus on a foundation, then maybe we could build a pack to fill this niche.

[Joco223]

• KIS/KAS
• kOS

What part mods are you going to add?

[CobaltWolf]

1 minute ago, Joco223 said:

What part mods are you going to add?

Alledgedly @Jso has a Real Fuels config for Bluedog Design Bureau.

[GreenWolf]

Part mods wise, using SMURFF instead of real fuels allows for basically any part pack to be dropped in alongside the pack and work out-of-the-box. Of course, you don't get real fuel types with SMURFF, but I feel like keeping things to LiquidFuel, Oxidizer, LiquidHydrogen (pretty much a standard for nuclear engine mods), and Monopropellant should be enough diversity while still staying stock-alike.

My thinking is to keep the core pack mostly free of part mods to reduce RAM use, and let users add whatever packs they want, with the pack providing any necessary configs to make this happen (the amount of which is much lower without Real Fuels). Maybe have a list of recommended part mods to go with it. This list would be mostly stock-alike packs that fill niches not filled by stock (i.e. HGR, most of Nertea's stuff, RLA Stockalike, etc).

Basically, the scope of this is to provide a core list of mods that overhaul the physics and such to be more realistic, alongside any necesary configs to allow people to drop in whatever else they want. UI mods, part packs, and beautification mods are out-of-scope.

[Joco223]

@GreenWolf So, Stockalike RO?

[legoclone09]

I like the progress, and we should use the CTT but with Yemo's Unmanned before Manned because that has probes first and manned, space-grade capsules later (45 science node). It would only need a bit of moving around to get the tree configured for the mods we have.

[jonrd463]

I like realism overhaul well enough, but sometimes I run into limitations that give me the impression that sledgehammering myself in the nuts would be more fun. That's why I've turned off ignition limitations and ullage and will shamelessly use non-RO engines for Landers or anything that would greatly benefit from a 0 to 100 throttle range.

Is it realistic? Not entirely, but for an activity I do for recreation, my sanity overrules real world fidelity.

Edited February 11, 2016 by jonrd463

[GreenWolf]

@Joco223 Essentially, yes.

@jonrd463 That's part of what I hope to achieve here. RO, but without the most tedious bits, and a more stockalike aesthetic.

 

Also, I should have an initial .ckan file ready by Friday.