Devnote Tuesday: Post-release progression

[ferram4]

The problem is that Squad has a history of their version numbers making little to no sense (0.23 -> 0.23.5, 0.25 -> 0.90, 1.0.2 -> 1.0.3), often understating how big an update things are. Personally, I think we should probably be on 1.2 at this point (the heating changes in 1.0.2 -> 1.0.3 should have increased the version to 1.1) and it's incredibly frustrating that it's looking like version checking for mods is going to have to drop to looking at actual buildIDs to be certain.

There's also the problem in terms of asking people if they updated to get the fix because 1.0.5.1025 != 1.0.5.10xx, but no one ever bothers to know what that is. This is a good way to cause issues for users that don't realize they should update and create support hassles for modders and for the people who try to help in the stock support forum.

[Tourist]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heun%27s_method

It's basically a way to solve some of the math in a way that's somewhat speedy and accurate.

So a direct opposite of the Tourist method, which is a way to "solve" maths problems very slowly and with doubtful accuracy.... sometimes involving fingers and toes.

Edited November 10, 2015 by Tourist

[Pecan]

So a direct opposite of the Tourist method, which is a way to "solve" maths problems very slowly and with doubtful accuracy.... sometimes involving fingers and toes.

Or the Latest-'Phone-I-Must-Be-Clever method; "Google it"

[panarchist]

Metal support would be HUGE. There's a significant chunk of the user base on OSX, and Metal will finally make something play *fast* on OSX. It's well worth implementing even if it takes a little work.

It's interesting, because I play KSP on both Windows and OSX. On Windows, I have zero lag with high part counts, and very fluid, beautiful motion - but it's not real stable, because I only have 4GB of RAM on the system. (but it has a killer graphics card) I do most of my playing, however, on OSX, because it's rock solid stable (which Windows is not) even with a ton of mods - provided it's not 5 or 6 giant parts mods.

I'd love to have the best of both worlds, and right now there aren't a lot of games out there with Metal support - it would be AWESOME if one of those games was KSP.

[NathanKell]

Some might consider the missing body lift gamebreaking, but at least it can be worked around for now.

Also, you guys somehow named two of the intakes 'Cargo Ramp intake'.

1. Body lift is fixed in the hotfix.

2. No, we named them Adjustable Ramp intakes. It's a kind of mach-compensation intake designed for supersonic flight. See here.

EDIT: About RK2. 1.0.4 used the whole timestep at low railswarp warp; that led to spikes and inconsistency. 1.0.5 while under QA used a loop in low railswarp, but that was slow (100 iterations, at 100x warp). 1.0.5 as released (I wrote this during exps) uses Heun's method and variable timesteps in low railswarp; the increased accuracy of the method allows far fewer (though not one!) passes, than the original version of my thermo rework I wrote in July/August.

Edited November 11, 2015 by NathanKell

[GeneCash]

It’s quite impressive to see how many more issues are found when tens of thousands of people get their hands on a build of a game instead of about a hundred

So are these bug-fixes going to roll back into 1.1, or are they 1.0.x specific somehow?

[Alshain]

So a direct opposite of the Tourist method, which is a way to "solve" maths problems very slowly and with doubtful accuracy.... sometimes involving fingers and toes.

Math is so much easier if you just assume the answer is always 42.

[federicoaa]

Nice gift Kasper.

By the way, there's a small typo in the last sentence, you wrote "fter" instead of "after".

[Claw]

So are these bug-fixes going to roll back into 1.1, or are they 1.0.x specific somehow?

They will be incorporated into 1.1. But that's another thing to keep in mind, is that there will be a lot of time spent going through the lines of code as the two branches are merged. Someone has to make sure that whatever fixes are getting merged in don't break something else.

- - - Updated - - -

you wrote "fter" instead of "after".

Fixed, thanks.

[John FX]

Barn!

[Lohan2008]

Rosetta & Philae update:

http://www.esa.int/spaceinvideos/Videos/2015/11/Once_upon_a_time_Living_with_a_comet

[Warzouz]

Why changing the forum, it's working quite well and is very reliable.

[KasperVld]

Why changing the forum, it's working quite well and is very reliable.

It may seem so, but the software it runs on is quite old, and poorly integrated. Plus, with vBulletin security issues are an ever increasing concern.

[cantab]

Ingame the version number is easily distinguishable in the main menu: the last numbers in the version number in the bottom right corner are the build ID. Let me grab an image.

edit:

http://i.imgur.com/RqnW84F.png

So in this case, the version is 1.0.5 build 1024. Once our 'silent' patch is applied it might for example be 1.0.5.1028

Doesn't that not work under Linux? I seem to recall the Linux build always showing 0 as the fourth number. So now I've got to go and ferret out some obscure file to check the build ID.

I remember earlier versions of Invision as being nothing special, but not objectionable at least. I think as long as it's a pretty conventional forum and not bloated to run badly on slow PCs or connections it will be fine.

[StoryMusgrave]

Please, Please, PLEASE. While you guys may have a goal of Christmas, don't screw the pooch like you did with 1.0 and release a completely worthless piece of junk that needs 4 rapid fire updates just to make it halfway playable.

[cantab]

I actually wonder if it isn't worth releasing 1.1 as an open beta first. It's a big update and that would allow Squad to meet a time target while being open that there will be new bugs. It's also expected that 1.1 will break a lot of mods and updates might take longer than usual, especially if it releases just before Christmas and the modders want to spend time with family instead of fixing what Squad broke. And it would get round Steam's Thou Shalt Update attitude and avoid disrupting things for modded 1.0.5 players (who didn't or won't move KSP out of Steam and run it directly).

[Lucius]

Hey sorry i havn't been able to get to my gaming computer in a few days:

Did 1.05 contain the promised antenna range gameplay addition?

If not, is it still slated for 1.1?

[KerbMav]

Did 1.05 contain the promised antenna range gameplay addition?

If not, is it still slated for 1.1?

No and yes, as promised.

I actually wonder if it isn't worth releasing 1.1 as an open beta first. It's a big update and that would allow Squad to meet a time target while being open that there will be new bugs. It's also expected that 1.1 will break a lot of mods and updates might take longer than usual, especially if it releases just before Christmas and the modders want to spend time with family instead of fixing what Squad broke. And it would get round Steam's Thou Shalt Update attitude and avoid disrupting things for modded 1.0.5 players (who didn't or won't move KSP out of Steam and run it directly).

I can get behind that.

[Robotengineer]

I actually wonder if it isn't worth releasing 1.1 as an open beta first. It's a big update and that would allow Squad to meet a time target while being open that there will be new bugs. It's also expected that 1.1 will break a lot of mods and updates might take longer than usual, especially if it releases just before Christmas and the modders want to spend time with family instead of fixing what Squad broke. And it would get round Steam's Thou Shalt Update attitude and avoid disrupting things for modded 1.0.5 players (who didn't or won't move KSP out of Steam and run it directly).

An open beta that is actually supposed to be an open beta would be good. But seriously, wasn't the original 1.0.0 nothing more than an open beta? Another benefit of doing an open beta for 1.1 is that it might allow modders to get early access to the dll's so they can start working and hopefully get their mods done before or shortly after 1.1 is officially released rather than a few weeks after it is released.

[Pecan]

@ cantab, KerbMav, Robotengineer et al:

You know that mods are beyond Squad's control, so modders can't get early access just for that reason. If they made a video, then of course!

(But don't bother writing manuals read by thousands of people, that doesn't count and would be competition for me).

Meanwhile; I still think this is an awesome changelog

[ryan234abc]

Thanks as always Squad for the new update. With the new afterburning Panther as well as many other parts, SSTO designers will be having a field trip xD

[linuxgurugamer]

Ingame the version number is easily distinguishable in the main menu: the last numbers in the version number in the bottom right corner are the build ID. Let me grab an image.

edit:

http://i.imgur.com/RqnW84F.png

So in this case, the version is 1.0.5 build 1024. Once our 'silent' patch is applied it might for example be 1.0.5.1028

Sorry Kasper, I disagree.

I have done software development for over 30 years, and having a "silent" update is a recipie for disaster. It doesn't matter about that build number, people are going to get confused and not even pay attention to that build number.

For example, I keep the zip files for each release. At least with a version, each file is a different name. But if you do a silent update, all of a sudden there are different versions with the same file name.

[Mikki]

..., and having a "silent" update is a recipie for disaster.

Really no offense, but in reality, "Life" is a continuing disaster. It is normal people work on them (the disasters) each day. Everywhere, anytime. Maybe not so much on sundays.

Perfection is a word like... Quality.

I am happy having postpatches however, better than having none.

[DancesWithSquirrels]

OK, good points by the developers, a build number indicating version sounds quite workable.

As long as these are bug fixes, and not new features, or changes to gameplay. New features deserve a clear increment, even if minor.