Tags for posts in Add-on Releases

[KasperVld]

That has already come up, we know about the plugin - it looks promising.

 

[HafCoJoe]

5 hours ago, nightingale said:

From another thread:

So it seems I'm probably not supposed to be able to do this.  Looking through Add-on Releases, I see RoverDude has also added "prefix" tags, so there's at least one other non-moderator with this ability.

I think we should try to get it added for everyone - at least for Add-On Releases, if it's possible to do it on a per-forum basis (I seem to be able to do it anywhere).

I really liked the idea for prefixes as it added a bit more color to the front pages of forums... I have to say that the options available could be tweaked slightly but I definitely think they should still be here.

[Alshain]

I gotta say, good luck getting this to be consistent.  There was a 'movement' to get all the titles named consistently too and that didn't work either.

On 11/30/2015, 10:46:39, Diazo said:

The one standard I would think should apply is a "part" and "plug-in" tag.

Any mod that adds a new part should have the "part" tag and any plug in that has a .dll file should have the "plug-in" tag. This means several mods would have both, but it at least serves as a starting location for searching.

Looking for new lights for your plane? Filter by the "part" tag.

Looking for a controller to keep your plane level? Filter by the "plug-in" tag.

Also, is there a way to see all tags that have already been created? I'm going to use the "actions" tag on a bunch of my mods, but has someone else already used just "action" for their mod relating to handling actions and/or action groups?

D.

edit: How do you list existing tags? Without that ability they are going to be pretty useless. Yes, you can search by tag but that only works if you know what you are searching for.

What if a mod has neither?  WindowShine for example is just a set of ModuleManager scripts for use with Texture Replacer

Edited December 1, 2015 by Alshain

[Valerian]

29 minutes ago, Alshain said:

I gotta say, good luck getting this to be consistent.  There was a 'movement' to get all the titles named consistently too and that didn't work either.

If Advanced Tags Prefixes gets installed on this forum, tags and prefixes could be kind of enforced, so I think something nice could be managed

[Diazo]

I figured out my issue. When I first added tags it was early enough the number allowed was quite high (whatever the default is).

Since then, they have been limited to 3 tags so if you have 3 (or more as I do) tags, the text entry cursor goes away until you deleted a tag so you have room to enter another.

I hope the limit does not stay at 3, if we get that few I will not be using the part/plugin tag as I want to actually tag my stuff with relevant tags.

I understand there has to be a limit, but as only 2 tags display on the thread listing filling up the screen with tags is not a big worry.

D.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Diazo

[Valerian]

7 minutes ago, Diazo said:

I figured out my issue. When I first added tags it was early enough the number allowed was quite high (whatever the default is).

Since then, they have been limited to 3 tags so if you have 3 (or more as I do) tags, the text entry cursor goes away until you deleted a tag so you have room to enter another.

I hope the limit does not stay at 3, if we get that few I will not be using the part/plugin tag as I want to actually tag my stuff with relevant tags.

I understand there has to be a limit, but as only 2 tags display on the thread listing filling up the screen with tags is not a big worry.

D.

I as said earlier, we asked @KasperVld on IRC if he could increase it, and he said that he would consider it if we come up with a tag system that justifies it.

[nightingale]

9 hours ago, Valerian said:

I as said earlier, we asked @KasperVld on IRC if he could increase it, and he said that he would consider it if we come up with a tag system that justifies it.

Well, let's work under the assumption that @KasperVld will implement the advanced tags plug-in that you linked to earlier (or at least, that it'll get implemented in the next few weeks as stuff stabilizes).  Based on the poll result and general feel I'm getting from the posts, I'd say the following is the general consensus:

1. We want prefixes enabled.
2. We want a fixed list of prefixes (requires advanced tags)
3. We want more than three tags (I'd say five or six would be plenty)

So let's start with the list for the prefixes.  We should try to keep it small (hopefully less than 10) and fairly generic (authors can easily do additional categorization through tags).  Let's also keep in mind that the purpose of a prefix should be to tell the user "what's the general purpose of this add-on".  Also, they are clickable to be able to give the user the list of "similar" mods in that category.

To start us off, here's the current list in the OP:

• plugin
• part
• collection
• content pack

I don't like plugin - it really only serves as an "other" category and doesn't actually tell the user anything about the mod, other than "this will have a DLL".  I vot to drop it.  I also think that content pack is too broad.

While I had the ability to do prefixes (the permissions have been fixed now), I had put my contract packs under the contract pack prefix.  It seemed like a good idea at the time, but it's probably still too specific.  Using contract is a bit better, but still too general.  I think that career is about the right level, as that it covers fairly wide range.

One that @RoverDude has been using is gameplay.  Although it's might be a bit broad, it may serve as a good catch-all for a lot of things that are otherwise difficult to categorize.

Some of my other suggestions:

• science could easily categorize a lot of mods that add science experiments and stuff like that.
• visual covers a range of beautification mods.
• tool for things like HyperEdit, DDS Loader
• ui for mods that are primarily UI replacements or additional UIs (like KER)
• planets because I don't see a better category for all the planet pack mods.  We could do universe alteration, universe, or solar system instead.

So this is the full list that I would suggest:

• career
• collection
• gameplay
• parts
• planets
• science
• tool
• ui
• visual

I didn't put an other or miscellaneous category, but it might not be a bad idea for stuff that we can't foresee.

Please discuss, and try to think about different mods and which category you might fit them in.  More importantly, if there's a mod that doesn't fit well in one of these categories, then there could be a strong argument for a new category.

[Diazo]

Okay, so we are talking about a locked list of prefixes, but the tags themselves being free entry?

In that case, what are prefixes for? IE: When a person is browsing the forum, what do we (mod makers) want the prefix to show?

At the moment this is feeling like we have a solution looking for a problem to solve.

Note I'm just talking about prefixes here, I like the idea of tags, especially if a mod maker consulted the list of existing tags for suggestions when tagging their thread to be consistent. (How do you do this anyway? Get a list of all existing tags.) Essentially I see the tags allowing someone to search by concept while the text search allows them to do more specific searches by name.

D.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Diazo

[TheLoki]

I suggest to also drop the "collection" tag. It's too generic and the content of a collection could be better described with every other tag, whether it's a part-, gameplay-, ui-collection or all of that. Unless i misunderstood the "collection" tag and it describes a combination of parts, gameplay and ui mods. Then it would make sense to me.

[RoverDude]

FYI - I used the 'Gameplay' tag because a couple of my mods (the colony ones to be specific) are really not parts packs, but fundamental changes to how you play the game.  I expect KSPI would also fall into this category.

[Valerian]

19 minutes ago, TheLoki said:

I suggest to also drop the "collection" tag. It's too generic and the content of a collection could be better described with every other tag, whether it's a part-, gameplay-, ui-collection or all of that. Unless i misunderstood the "collection" tag and it describes a combination of parts, gameplay and ui mods. Then it would make sense to me.

I guess we need to find better names to make it clearer then

"collection" means a plugins pack, for example Realism Overhaul, KSPRC, Astronomer's Visual Pack

"content pack" are contents that are not parts, either for stock game or for a specific plugin, such as flags, textures, or contracts, maybe even planets would fit this category?

10 minutes ago, RoverDude said:

FYI - I used the 'Gameplay' tag because a couple of my mods (the colony ones to be specific) are really not parts packs, but fundamental changes to how you play the game.  I expect KSPI would also fall into this category.

I think the gameplay tag is relevant, I consider that most UI and visual plugins are not gameplay.

[nightingale]

1 hour ago, Diazo said:

Okay, so we are talking about a locked list of prefixes, but the tags themselves being free entry?

Yes, the reasoning mainly being based on this quote from Valerian:

On 30/11/2015, 15:58:28, Valerian said:

I asked @KasperVld on IRC if it would be possible to increase the number of tags, up to about 6, and he said that he would think about it if we come up with a set of tags and rules.

I'm not personally against an open list for prefixes,but  having some consistency makes it easier for users to skim through.  It may also prevent some tag abuse like having really long prefixes (not sure if there's a character limit there).

As for the non-prefix tags, I really, really want to keep it open.  If it's valuable we can put together some suggestions and get it added to a sticky post, but it really should just be suggestions.  If I want to tag my contract packs as contract configurator, why shouldn't I be able to?

1 hour ago, Diazo said:

In that case, what are prefixes for? IE: When a person is browsing the forum, what do we (mod makers) want the prefix to show?

At the moment this is feeling like we have a solution looking for a problem to solve.

Note I'm just talking about prefixes here, I like the idea of tags, especially if a mod maker consulted the list of existing tags for suggestions when tagging their thread to be consistent. (How do you do this anyway? Get a list of all existing tags.) Essentially I see the tags allowing someone to search by concept while the text search allows them to do more specific searches by name.

To me they give a broad categorization and provide filtering.  If as a user I find a mod with the science prefix that I like, I might click on it to see other mods in that category.  It also helps give the user some idea of what a mod is, if the name doesn't make it obvious.

1 hour ago, TheLoki said:

I suggest to also drop the "collection" tag. It's too generic and the content of a collection could be better described with every other tag, whether it's a part-, gameplay-, ui-collection or all of that. Unless i misunderstood the "collection" tag and it describes a combination of parts, gameplay and ui mods. Then it would make sense to me.

52 minutes ago, Valerian said:

"collection" means a plugins pack, for example Realism Overhaul, KSPRC, Astronomer's Visual Pack

"content pack" are contents that are not parts, either for stock game or for a specific plugin, such as flags, textures, or contracts, maybe even planets would fit this category?

Ah, we have a different understanding of what collection was meant to imply then.  For your examples, I would've put RO in gameplay (or parts), KSPRC and AVP in visual.  I was thinking collection would be for stuff like what @magico13 and @DMagic have, which is a single thread of modlets crossing a variety of categories.  It could also cover a mod that repackages a bunch of other mods into a "collection", but since that is generally frowned upon maybe it's better to just rename the prefix to modlets and let it cover that one specific use case?

I left out content pack simply because I thought anything that you'd mentioned in there could be better fit into another category - flags/textures in visual, contracts in career, and planets in...  planets (unless we can come up with a better name there).

starting to figure out multi-quote and breaking quotes, but jeez is it a pain

[inigma]

I like modlets.

[TheLoki]

2 hours ago, nightingale said:

3 hours ago, TheLoki said:

I suggest to also drop the "collection" tag. It's too generic and the content of a collection could be better described with every other tag, whether it's a part-, gameplay-, ui-collection or all of that. Unless i misunderstood the "collection" tag and it describes a combination of parts, gameplay and ui mods. Then it would make sense to me.

3 hours ago, Valerian said:

"collection" means a plugins pack, for example Realism Overhaul, KSPRC, Astronomer's Visual Pack

"content pack" are contents that are not parts, either for stock game or for a specific plugin, such as flags, textures, or contracts, maybe even planets would fit this category?

Ah, we have a different understanding of what collection was meant to imply then.  For your examples, I would've put RO in gameplay (or parts), KSPRC and AVP in visual.  I was thinking collection would be for stuff like what @magico13 and @DMagic have, which is a single thread of modlets crossing a variety of categories.  It could also cover a mod that repackages a bunch of other mods into a "collection", but since that is generally frowned upon maybe it's better to just rename the prefix to modlets and let it cover that one specific use case?

Yep, that's what i tought for RO (and other mods) too, no need for a collection tag here, because it changes or adds to whole gameplay. Then i thought about @Nertea and the "Near Future"-Mods, but there also: it generally adds parts. 

I like modlets, but it feels like we only have renamed "plugins"

[Valerian]

2 hours ago, nightingale said:

Ah, we have a different understanding of what collection was meant to imply then.  For your examples, I would've put RO in gameplay (or parts), KSPRC and AVP in visual.  I was thinking collection would be for stuff like what @magico13 and @DMagic have, which is a single thread of modlets crossing a variety of categories.  It could also cover a mod that repackages a bunch of other mods into a "collection", but since that is generally frowned upon maybe it's better to just rename the prefix to modlets and let it cover that one specific use case?

I left out content pack simply because I thought anything that you'd mentioned in there could be better fit into another category - flags/textures in visual, contracts in career, and planets in...  planets (unless we can come up with a better name there).

starting to figure out multi-quote and breaking quotes, but jeez is it a pain

I was in the context of "collection" and "content pack" being prefixes, which made it possible to also add tags such as "gameplay" and "visual".

The way I see it, the prefix should show the format/type of the content, and the tags are more thematic.

I'm not sure I follow you because you seemed to agree with that view in your previous post.

And I thought collection was already what you mean by modlets.

 

Maybe it would be a good idea to schedule an IRC discussion for this matter, no? If @KasperVld could join as well it could be nice.

Edited December 2, 2015 by Valerian

[nightingale]

2 hours ago, Valerian said:

Maybe it would be a good idea to schedule an IRC discussion for this matter, no? If @KasperVld could join as well it could be nice.

Sure, toss out a time that works (maybe tomorrow?) and we'll see who shows up in #kspmodders.  For tomorrow I can pretty much do any time from 4pm - 10pm UTC  (which I figured gives us the best overlap if you're hoping for Kasper to show up).

 

[CaptainKipard]

Is there anything wrong with a longer tag prefix like:

• Plugin Collection
• Parts Collection
• Plugin + Parts

I would leave the enforcable prefix list small, but all inclusive, and allow modders to add other things in tags instead.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Cpt. Kipard

[Valerian]

2 minutes ago, Cpt. Kipard said:

Is there anything wrong with a longer tag like:

• Plugin Collection
• Parts Collection
• Plugin + Parts

I would leave the enforcable prefix list small, but all inclusive, and allow modders to add other things in tags instead.

Good idea

[nightingale]

3 hours ago, CaptainKipard said:

Is there anything wrong with a longer tag prefix like:

• Plugin Collection
• Parts Collection
• Plugin + Parts

I would leave the enforcable prefix list small, but all inclusive, and allow modders to add other things in tags instead.

Just from the perspective of readability of the thread list, I would vote for keeping them short (but precise).  So parts collection seems redundant when parts conveys the same information.

@Valerian - let me know if you want to have an IRC discussion about this sometime during your afternoon or evening tomorrow (Friday).  I'm pretty unreliable on weekends (kids ;)), so if you have a discussion without me then I can just update the OP with whatever the consensus was.

[Valerian]

4 hours ago, nightingale said:

@Valerian - let me know if you want to have an IRC discussion about this sometime during your afternoon or evening tomorrow (Friday).  I'm pretty unreliable on weekends (kids ;)), so if you have a discussion without me then I can just update the OP with whatever the consensus was.

I'm available from right now to about 1am UTC.

[nightingale]

7 hours ago, Valerian said:

I'm available from right now to about 1am UTC.

Okay, let's go with 8pm UTC on #kspmodders for all who want to discuss this.

[Diazo]

Will not be able to make it unfortunately. (Don't reschedule for me, my time zone is out of whack with the majority of people here.)

The only point I would raise is that I have seen a lot of discussion about the prefixes should be, I have not seen anyone address the question of whether we should have prefixes or not.

The question I'm trying to answer is "what purpose does the prefix serve to the person browsing the forum". Once that is answered the question of what actual text should be on the prefix is straightforward.

Note I'm distinguishing between prefixes and tags here. Tags are a good thing, they allow a mod maker to tag their mod with categories that can be searched. This is very powerful, especially if care is taken to use the same tags by consulting the list of existing tags first. (How do you do this anyway? I have not been able to find this feature for when I go and tag my own mods.)

D.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Diazo

[Valerian]

3 hours ago, Diazo said:

Will not be able to make it unfortunately. (Don't reschedule for me, my time zone is out of whack with the majority of people here.)

The only point I would raise is that I have seen a lot of discussion about the prefixes should be, I have not seen anyone address the question of whether we should have prefixes or not.

The question I'm trying to answer is "what purpose does the prefix serve to the person browsing the forum". Once that is answered the question of what actual text should be on the prefix is straightforward.

Note I'm distinguishing between prefixes and tags here. Tags are a good thing, they allow a mod maker to tag their mod with categories that can be searched. This is very powerful, especially if care is taken to use the same tags by consulting the list of existing tags first. (How do you do this anyway? I have not been able to find this feature for when I go and tag my own mods.)

D.

The way I see it, tags in general (including prefixes) are useful for filtering posts of the same tag, and also useful as an overview of what an add-on is about.

The prefixes are useful in the same way, but are also there to emphasize the general type of add-on, so that you can take a quick look at the list of topics and find what you're looking for quickly.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Valerian