Forgotten Space Program

[Geschosskopf]

4 hours ago, Cydonian Monk said:

I'm going to test this in a few hours to see what's broken and where. I expect the stock functions to work as intended, as I know some folks have copied all the traits into all the kerbals in other saves... though not being one of the three named castes could pose a small issue somewhere. Not sure which mods will be grouchy about it. (KIS/KAS I expect. And maybe KER, but I seldom have a craft that doesn't have a KER tapedeck onboard.)

Well, I'm sure you will find, as I have, that most stock things also key off the class name.  All my Kerbals have had all the skills since the day they unionized but it hasn't done me much good.

Things that work:

• All Kerbals can fix flat tires (once they get 3 stars).  Probably fixing lander legs and repacking chutes, too, but I hardly ever have need of those so I don't remember if those work or not.
• Can't really think of anything else.

Things that don't work

• Only card-carrying Pilots can use SAS even though all my Scientists and Engineers have the skill.
• Only card-carrying Scientists can reset Goo and Material Bays.

 

[insert_name]

5 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

Well, I'm sure you will find, as I have, that most stock things also key off the class name.  All my Kerbals have had all the skills since the day they unionized but it hasn't done me much good.

Things that work:

• All Kerbals can fix flat tires (once they get 3 stars).  Probably fixing lander legs and repacking chutes, too, but I hardly ever have need of those so I don't remember if those work or not.
• Can't really think of anything else.

Things that don't work

• Only card-carrying Pilots can use SAS even though all my Scientists and Engineers have the skill.
• Only card-carrying Scientists can reset Goo and Material Bays.

 

I'm surprised that the circus  would allow unionization

[Geschosskopf]

9 minutes ago, insert_name said:

I'm surprised that the circus  would allow unionization

Well, I only call the never-to-be-sufficiently-damned Kerbal class system "unionization" because I despise unions with equal vigor.  But as all my attempts to hack around it have failed, the Circus has just rolled with it, being merely a corporation with no say over Kerbal society as a whole.  So the Circus, in keeping with its windjammer-inspired ethos, has used it as nautical ratings.  But now the Singularity has happened so that's all in the past.  But the Singularity was just as violent as unionization some centuries previously.

[Cydonian Monk]

15 hours ago, Geschosskopf said:

Things that work:

• All Kerbals can fix flat tires (once they get 3 stars).  Probably fixing lander legs and repacking chutes, too, but I hardly ever have need of those so I don't remember if those work or not.
• Can't really think of anything else.

Things that don't work

• Only card-carrying Pilots can use SAS even though all my Scientists and Engineers have the skill.
• Only card-carrying Scientists can reset Goo and Material Bays.

 

A quick update on this, since I don't have enough for a full update just yet. 

 

Tested in 1.0.5 as I've not yet updated to 1.1.x as 1.1.x is still kinda broken....

So I went and created a test Career-mode save, recruited a "Kerbal" with all the mad skills. Gave said kerbal Jeb's 4-star experience from one of my past saves. Alt-F12'd myself all the science and funds, and built a quick test jet. No probe core, just a jet with a normal cockpit. Stuck a Goo pod on it and gave the 4-star "Kerbal" some KIS/KAS goodies.

First the stock things: Only card-carrying scientists can reset experiments. Plane didn't have a lab so that didn't get tested yet. Otherwise every stock "experience-based" trait worked. SAS worked. All of the SAS modes worked too. Engineering repair tasks worked. Repacking chutes worked. Plane didn't have a drill/refinery so that didn't get tested yet either.

Kerbal Engineer Redux worked as though the "Kerbal" was an Engineer.

Kerbal Attachment / Inventory Systems worked as though "Kerbal" was an Engineer. Was able to stack and surface attach with the expected tools.

 

So now the other stuff. I slapped together a quick drilling rig with a science lab and recruited my Kerbal as a roughneck and set to work. Brought along a regular 0-star pilot so the rig still counted as being crewed (for the sake of science work).

First, "Kerbals" can conduct research in the lab. So the Scientists Union trusts them to work in the lab just not in the field? I was expecting straight-up elitism, but this one is weird. "Kerbals" in the lab can also clean experiments, so it's really just "Kerbals" doing field work that will be at issue.

As for the drilling and refining, attempting to use the drill crashed the game. Once I restarted and ran it again, the drill seemed to overheat just as fast with an Engineer as it did with a "Kerbal."  Same thermal efficiency curve on both. Overheats faster without either. So in the odd event a "Kerbal" needs to pound a drill and violate the various laws of conservation with fuel cell powered ISRU, good to go.

 

In closing, I think Thomlock should be fine. He'll need to bring a UKWP Local 100 card-carrying scientist to reset any field experiments (unless that's fixed in 1.1.x), but otherwise it's "Rock On, Space Kerb." 

 

[Geschosskopf]

55 minutes ago, Cydonian Monk said:

In closing, I think Thomlock should be fine. He'll need to bring a UKWP Local 100 card-carrying scientist to reset any field experiments (unless that's fixed in 1.1.x), but otherwise it's "Rock On, Space Kerb." 

Well, that's certainly an improvement and very good news.  Thanks for doing the tests.

[Angelo Kerman]

4 hours ago, Cydonian Monk said:

A quick update on this, since I don't have enough for a full update just yet. 

 

Tested in 1.0.5 as I've not yet updated to 1.1.x as 1.1.x is still kinda broken....

So I went and created a test Career-mode save, recruited a "Kerbal" with all the mad skills. Gave said kerbal Jeb's 4-star experience from one of my past saves. Alt-F12'd myself all the science and funds, and built a quick test jet. No probe core, just a jet with a normal cockpit. Stuck a Goo pod on it and gave the 4-star "Kerbal" some KIS/KAS goodies.

First the stock things: Only card-carrying scientists can reset experiments. Plane didn't have a lab so that didn't get tested yet. Otherwise every stock "experience-based" trait worked. SAS worked. All of the SAS modes worked too. Engineering repair tasks worked. Repacking chutes worked. Plane didn't have a drill/refinery so that didn't get tested yet either.

Kerbal Engineer Redux worked as though the "Kerbal" was an Engineer.

Kerbal Attachment / Inventory Systems worked as though "Kerbal" was an Engineer. Was able to stack and surface attach with the expected tools.

 

So now the other stuff. I slapped together a quick drilling rig with a science lab and recruited my Kerbal as a roughneck and set to work. Brought along a regular 0-star pilot so the rig still counted as being crewed (for the sake of science work).

First, "Kerbals" can conduct research in the lab. So the Scientists Union trusts them to work in the lab just not in the field? I was expecting straight-up elitism, but this one is weird. "Kerbals" in the lab can also clean experiments, so it's really just "Kerbals" doing field work that will be at issue.

As for the drilling and refining, attempting to use the drill crashed the game. Once I restarted and ran it again, the drill seemed to overheat just as fast with an Engineer as it did with a "Kerbal."  Same thermal efficiency curve on both. Overheats faster without either. So in the odd event a "Kerbal" needs to pound a drill and violate the various laws of conservation with fuel cell powered ISRU, good to go.

 

In closing, I think Thomlock should be fine. He'll need to bring a UKWP Local 100 card-carrying scientist to reset any field experiments (unless that's fixed in 1.1.x), but otherwise it's "Rock On, Space Kerb." 

 

I like your solution for Thomlock. I did a different approach where I created a "SuperKerbal" plugin that lets you change between Pilot, Engineer, Scientist and Tourist while on EVA. I needed that for the Martystu character from Duna Space Program. Not sure if that will help you, but it might help you get around some of the issues you're seeing. Anyway, you can download it here.

[reaction_wheel]

@Cydonian Monk I just want to offer mad props for etching this incredible story into the annals of the KSP forums. I've always felt that Kerbal Space Program offered the tools to create the kind of sweeping epic narrative that accompanies humanity's own space travel history -- and I think you've captured just such a story with the right blend of humor, drama, and technical elegance. I read through all 25 pages of forum posts in a couple sittings, with as much anticipation and engagement as just about any science fiction literature I've ever enjoyed.

(Unfortunately, I'm probably going to have to put the serial down when the Jool 4 leave on their historic mission, because I've yet to send even a probe to Jool in my own (year and a half old) game and... I can't stand the spoilers... )

In any event -- bravo for sharing such a wonderful story. Keep 'em coming!

 

[Cydonian Monk]

1 hour ago, reaction_wheel said:

@Cydonian Monk I just want to offer mad props for etching this incredible story into the annals of the KSP forums....

In any event -- bravo for sharing such a wonderful story. Keep 'em coming!

Thank you! Very kind words. Emergent storytelling is a strange side effect of mixing idle minds with sandbox games, and it can make for an interesting if still strange hobby.  

Now go send a probe to Jool! Or two! No time like the present. 

[Geschosskopf]

3 hours ago, reaction_wheel said:

(Unfortunately, I'm probably going to have to put the serial down when the Jool 4 leave on their historic mission, because I've yet to send even a probe to Jool in my own (year and a half old) game and... I can't stand the spoilers... )

Yeah, like CM says, go send a probe to Jool.  Start a new sandbox game just for that purpose, build a massive probe that can visit all the moons, and warp it out there ASAP.  Don't stop reading this just because you haven't seen Jool up close

 

[Cydonian Monk]

26 minutes ago, Geschosskopf said:

Yeah, like CM says, go send a probe to Jool.  Start a new sandbox game just for that purpose, build a massive probe that can visit all the moons, and warp it out there ASAP.

It doesn't even have to be a massive probe that can visit everything - the first probe I sent to Jool was a simple Ion craft: Phantom 1 (which admittedly performed some gravity gymnastics with multiple flybys of Kerbin to reach Jool...).

It was followed by the slightly more complex Wayward 1, which still holds the distinction of being the only craft I've performed a Sagan-style "Grand Tour" with, flying past every planet (three of them more than once).

Bear in mind these exact designs will no longer work as there's considerably less sunlight at Jool now than there was three years ago when I ran those missions, but the idea will still get you there. And Ion propulsion isn't really required - a small probe with regular old chemical propulsion is really more than enough to see the wonders of Jool. (Just take an RTG.)

[reaction_wheel]

8 hours ago, Cydonian Monk said:

It doesn't even have to be a massive probe that can visit everything - the first probe I sent to Jool was a simple Ion craft: Phantom 1 (which admittedly performed some gravity gymnastics with multiple flybys of Kerbin to reach Jool...).

It was followed by the slightly more complex Wayward 1, which still holds the distinction of being the only craft I've performed a Sagan-style "Grand Tour" with, flying past every planet (three of them more than once).

As soon as I have a block of free time, I'll do just that...

In the meantime, is there another thread where you describe how the heck you planned the sequence of maneuvers for the "Grand Tour"?

[Cydonian Monk]

1 hour ago, reaction_wheel said:

In the meantime, is there another thread where you describe how the heck you planned the sequence of maneuvers for the "Grand Tour"?

Probably not. I just kind of winged it, adjusting the orbits so each one eventually intersected a planet. Edit: Try this: 

 

Edited May 18, 2016 by Cydonian Monk

[Geschosskopf]

3 hours ago, Cydonian Monk said:

Probably not. I just kind of winged it, adjusting the orbits so each one eventually intersected a planet...

That's been my approach.  I just hit targets of opportunity, alternating between  inner and outer planets so I don't have to wait decades for transfer windows from one outer planet to another 

 

Edited May 18, 2016 by Geschosskopf

[Kertech]

@Cydonian Monk just wondering if you have links for your old mission reports??

[Cydonian Monk]

1 hour ago, Kertech said:

@Cydonian Monk just wondering if you have links for your old mission reports??

I do, though I'll warn in advance the forum migration broke the formatting very badly for some of them. As much as I'd like to go back and fix them, I really don't have the time at the moment. 

 

 

 

And there are several posts in the "What did you do today in KSP?" thread that I won't bother trying to find.  

--

 

Expect an update here tonight. I was hoping to have it ready last night, but spent too long trying to sort out the docking port glitch at Kelgee Station and ran out of time. Along those lines, I discovered the Memory of Tomorrow was still docked to one of the broken ports at Kelgee, but "fixing" it didn't fix it. (It was a bit more complex than that - one of the docking ports on the MoT WAS Kelgee Station and was otherwise identical to one of the ports actually on the Station. Perhaps slicing off pieces of old stations to make spacecraft out of them is a bad idea.... Somebody should warn NASA.)

[Kertech]

cool thanks, google and forums search weren't helpful, great reading though!!

[Cydonian Monk]

Silicon Sulphur Snack Strategy

Refueling the last two Potassiums was a simple, if slow, task. The K-2 was topped off by the Silicon 12, launched atop an even heavier version of the LV-08 Fortissimo. This brought the launch mass record to a staggering 845.5 tonnes, a number that's likely to stay standing for quite some time. (Until I start using SpaceY parts again in 1.1.x.)

Afterwards the K-3 was brought to full capacity by the Silicon 13.  Meaning that now, after however many weeks of assembly, the entire mass of the Silicon Jool Expedition is in orbit. Except for the crews.

There's still a bit of house cleaning to take care of before the Jool Four can launch. First and foremost, the shuttle they'll use to transfer to their ship - Sulphur 3 - needs to move to Kelgee so it can refuel. It's been floating in a very low Kerbin orbit since the LDAV launch test, and is a bit neglected. Time to change that. 

With only ~100m/s worth of liquid fuel and oxidizer and ~250m/s of monoprop left, it's not likely to go very far. Thankfully Kelgee is only ~80m/s away, in an orbit some 60km higher. As it turns out that's where the Titanium carrying the Jool Four will dock, so the numbers work in its favor. The ground controllers brought the sleeping shuttle back to life and moved it into an intercept orbit with the increasingly chaotic station. (Burning through the monoprop first, since that's the most efficient thing to do.)

The arrival at Kelgee happened in the dark, as is only right and proper, and final maneuvering to dock proceeded under the lander's spotlights. Kelgee is in desperate need of a cleaning, but until the issue with the station's docking controller is resolved not much can be done. (And I still have no clue why some of the docking ports have stopped working. Maybe they'll fix themselves in 1.1.2.)

It became quickly apparent that the Sulphur 3 would only be able to partially refuel at Kelgee. Never intended for use as a logistics platform, the station was not blessed with large reserves of (decades-old) petroleum distillates and oxidizers. Most visiting vessels never needed to refuel, and the few that had were robbing supplies from unintended sources. 

So a new supply launch was in order. 

--

Those supplies came in the form of Oxygen 3. Not a full sized tanker, but for a science station such as Kelgee it would suffice. Aside from refueling the Sulphur shuttles, it would really only be needed for topping off the Titaniums and any similar craft. The Boss had already instructed to Mission Operations Division to bring one of the other Things online to use as a surface-orbit transfer station, meaning the two Titaniums at Kelgee might even be the last to visit it. 

Launched atop an extremely underwhelmed LV-07, the O-3 was an incredibly routine and smooth flight. So smooth that more than half of the second stage's fuel was still remaining when the O-3 arrived at Kelgee Station. Fast running out of working docking ports, the O-3 was placed at one of the high berths, a docking node at the Zenith of the station.

Who would ever complain about having too much fuel? Not this space agency, that's for sure. Once everything was safely docked up at Kelgee, the ground crews set to routing fuel from the new found supply into the Sulphur 3. 

--

With Sulphur 3 tended to, Sulphur 4 was now begging for attention. More importantly its crew of five were clamoring to get back into orbit so they could continue their various missions. So when the timing was right they packed back into the S-4, launched (in the pitch black of the Munar night) to rendezvous with Pequoni 1, and topped off the lander's almost completely empty tanks. 

And then there was the question of what to do with the Sulphur 1 and 2. Floating derelict in the orbit previously held by the Memory of Tomorrow, there was some suspicion that Hallock had perhaps rigged them to explode as he had with the lander he left behind at Pioneer Mün Base. Gene and [almost] everyone on Kerbin were advising extreme caution, but most wanted to recover such valuable assets. Doing so with a minimal risk to life was important, so as few kerbals as possible should be present when the Sulphur 4 docked up with them. Normally that would mean zero kerbals, but docking an unoccupied, fully-fueled shuttle to two known-hostile derelicts just sounded like a terrible idea. 

So the crew drew straws. 

And so, when the transfer window was right, Verly and the Sulphur 4 ventured out from the oddly named station, leaving behind her 4 companions. The S-1 and S-2, still docked to each other, were tumbling end-over-end a good 20km above the station.

The remote control link was dead for both craft, meaning she was unable to stop the tumbling from the Sulphur 4. Another fun docking exercise. There were really only two options available here - EVA and grab on to the spinning mass, boarding to try to get it to stop (if it could be done before the G-forces caused her to blank out), or try nudging the other two shuttles to slow their rotation. (Hey - it worked for Sieta.)

Verly went for the nudge option. A few taps later and the rotation of the S-1/S-2 was slowed enough for Verly to move in and dock. There were no signs of life on either shuttle, and nowhere really to hide inside them. She was still glad to have her space wrench. It wasn't the greatest weapon, but it would do in a pinch. The air lock sequence completed, and atmospheres equalized, and she popped open the airlock between the two.

And nothing happened.

No traps, no hostile crazed space kerbals, no insulting or edgy messages. 

Nothing. 

Nearly a day later and the orbits were once again aligned. Verly burned using the Sulphur 4's engines to place the three shuttles on an intercept course for Pequoni 1. Once there she and Mardi gave the two older Sulphurs a thorough examination, checking multiple times for any explosives or unexpected surprises. The control electronics of the Sulphur 1 had been completely gutted, likely moved to the Memory of Tomorrow so Hallock could operate it without a cockpit. 

The Sulphur 2 wasn't in much better shape, but had enough of the cockpit left that it was at least flyable. Both would require extensive repairs, and the S-1 would need an entirely new cockpit. Verly suggested she could move the flight and navigation computers from the S-4 into the S-1 so Edsel could use the lower-mass shuttle to transfer the scientists to Pequoni 2, but most agreed it was best to not mess with the only working shuttle they had. 

After it became clear the S-1 and S-2 were safe, if perhaps nearly useless, Edsel, Rozor and Elkin left for higher-orbit pastures. The two engineers would have the station all to themselves while the two scientists continued their experiments on high. Both groups now had plenty to keep them busy. (Edsel was just hoping to get in some quality time playing Klondike Solitaire.)

And hey - they're at the Mün! Everything's better when you're orbiting a rock thousands of kilometers from home, even being overloaded with work that doesn't necessarily make sense. 

--

The only downside being the five of them were missing one of the biggest parties every thrown on Kerbin - The pre-launch party for Macfred, Thomlock, Glettix and Agake. Four kerbals were getting ready to spend three years in two tin cans to get to one planet that's zero stars away. So naturally there was a party. And a huge one at that. Every type of snack ever made on Kerbin. Every vintage of fizzy drink known to kerbs. Every dignitary and luminary and otherwise self-important kerbal was on hand to send the Jool Four off with a bang. 

Every kerbal except the five orbiting the Mün. And Sieta in her asteroid castle. Sieta, who nobody could convince to come down from her high perch, queen of space. She did at least DJ for the party, playing several new works. Gene promised to box up a sampling of the best snacks and save them for the two crews. At one point during the festivities he and Wernher, both having enjoyed the evening a bit too much, offered to strap snacks to some flea barrels and send them to orbit. (Thankfully a few level-headed and mostly sober kerbals stopped them before they caused too much damage.)

A legendary party for a legendary mission. What more could you ask for?

 

Navigation: Next Post

Edited December 4, 2016 by Cydonian Monk

[RocketSquid]

On 5/15/2016 at 2:35 PM, Cydonian Monk said:

As for the drilling and refining, attempting to use the drill crashed the game. Once I restarted and ran it again, the drill seemed to overheat just as fast with an Engineer as it did with a "Kerbal."  Same thermal efficiency curve on both. Overheats faster without either. So in the odd event a "Kerbal" needs to pound a drill and violate the various laws of conservation with fuel cell powered ISRU, good to go.

Oh no, there's no violation of any laws. Just a bicycle powered generator and a very, very tired engineer and/or "Kerbal".

[Geschosskopf]

Hopefully the Jool 4 will be sober enough to fly the new Jool ship.  I'm sure they won't be hung-over as O2 works magic on that problem

 

[Cydonian Monk]

On May 20, 2016 at 5:50 PM, RocketSquid said:

Oh no, there's no violation of any laws. Just a bicycle powered generator and a very, very tired engineer and/or "Kerbal".

I now have this sudden urge to crash fuel cells into KSC to see if they explode in a fireball or a puff of smoke....  Surely if there's a kerbals inside on a stationary bike then it must indeed go in a puff of smoke. This demands Science! (Or perhaps not, as exposing fuel cells to Science! might now mean I'm killing Kerbals.)

 

On May 21, 2016 at 9:49 PM, Geschosskopf said:

Hopefully the Jool 4 will be sober enough to fly the new Jool ship.  I'm sure they won't be hung-over as O2 works magic on that problem

kOS makes for a good designated driver.  

[RocketSquid]

4 hours ago, Cydonian Monk said:

I now have this sudden urge to crash fuel cells into KSC to see if they explode in a fireball or a puff of smoke....  Surely if there's a kerbals inside on a stationary bike then it must indeed go in a puff of smoke. This demands Science! (Or perhaps not, as exposing fuel cells to Science! might now mean I'm killing Kerbals.)

Er, the bike generators are in the pods. The fuel cells are actual fuel cells, it's just that whenever you run an ISRU converter, whether it's powered by fuel cells or not, the kerbals start pedaling to reduce the strain on the ship systems. That's also why reaction wheels have an unrealistically low power consumption and why cabin lights and temperature regulation don't use up any electric charge. Plus, it helps the kerbals stay fit in space, which is why you can put them in orbit for three years and they can still stand up afterwards.

[cubinator]

4 minutes ago, RocketSquid said:

Er, the bike generators are in the pods. The fuel cells are actual fuel cells, it's just that whenever you run an ISRU converter, whether it's powered by fuel cells or not, the kerbals start pedaling to reduce the strain on the ship systems. That's also why reaction wheels have an unrealistically low power consumption and why cabin lights and temperature regulation don't use up any electric charge. Plus, it helps the kerbals stay fit in space, which is why you can put them in orbit for three years and they can still stand up afterwards.

That's...actually a surprisingly compelling theory. 

[RocketSquid]

1 hour ago, cubinator said:

That's...actually a surprisingly compelling theory. 

I know. It was a joke at first but I now find myself actually believing it. If I ever design IVAs I'm putting in stationary bikes.

[KAL 9000]

@Geschosskopf, congrats on 5000 posts! Halfway to @Red Iron Crown status!

[Geschosskopf]

1 hour ago, KAL 9000 said:

@Geschosskopf, congrats on 5000 posts! Halfway to @Red Iron Crown status!

Wow, that's scary   I talk too much and, unlike RIC, I usually don't know what I'm talking about.

 

19 hours ago, Cydonian Monk said:

kOS makes for a good designated driver.  

Ah yes.  I am SO looking forward to owning an autonomous car.  My job depends entirely on human error and driver error is a significant part of my business.  So autonomous cars will likely put me out of job, but I'll be able to drown my sorrows

One of these days I'll have to try making kOS doing something more complex that what I use it for now.

 

14 hours ago, cubinator said:

That's...actually a surprisingly compelling theory. 

Certainly it is.  As @Chemp has shown us, you can get quite a lot of energy out of a pedaling Kerbal