adding multiplayer

[Gelix]

Something like Red vs. Blue would be nice!

[jm764]

As someone who runs his own Ksp multiplayer server using DarkMultiplayer on version 1.0.4 and 1.0.5, let me clarify something whit the current multiplayer system and how it MIGHT work with squad's version when it comes out.

6 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

Like i said here, not only is the above a real problem, but as DrMarlboro stated what value does multiplayer have? How can it be done where part counts wont melt all computers involved or cause glacier halting lag? What about mods and conflicts? You have say a russian style parts pact, i have novapunch, how will that not break one another? Seems the only people who will get any benefit is the small group who do combat....

Multiplayer in ksp, in my opinion makes the game 100% better than simply playing by yourself. You can compete with other players to do mission, build space and ground stations, fight* each other in land, sea, air, and space, help others test their spaceships, etc.

The DMP and most likely SMP handles lag fairly well by only loading ships to your pc when in physics range. Granted large ships still lag alot, but the same lag fixes for single player seem to work in multiplayer as most of the physics is done by the other player's pc for their ship as long as they're flying it.

Mods are relative to the player's game install, so unless you have the EXACT same mod installs as the other player then ships won't load without those parts as they wouldn't in single player.

Large groups can do combat, but due to sync issues it's alot harder.

 

*only applies if you use the BDarmory mod with EVERY single player involved.

1 hour ago, tater said:

If anything can possibly happen that would not in a single-player version due to subspace, I'm entirely uninterested. If you are going to posit "subspace" for multiplayer, then add warp drive, and make subspace a thing.

Subspace is relative to the player(s) time warping as it is in single player.

 

If you want to know more about how the "current" multiplayer system works, just ask and I'll answer as best I can.

 

Also here's some info about my KSP server: https://docs.google.com/document/d/19pLlzakWGu-O8uK-Cc0IWXwgmxqUNQtie8eqCEankgk/edit?usp=sharing

[razark]

Question:

If Bob has a ship in LKO, and I am also in LKO but five minutes in his past what happens if his ship passes through a specific point in space, and five minutes later, I pass through the exact same point, what happens?

[panzer1b]

There are 2 major hurdles i can see with any official MP, and until they are solved, its probably gonna go the way of DMP (not that DMP is that bad, for what its worth it was a very good and successful experiment).

First of all, KSP needs a massive optimization boost if anything more then small scale MP is implemented, and it needs to be extremely well optimized (such that having 100s of flights doesnt put any strain on processor until one of those vessels is actually loaded.  The issue is (from DMP experience) is that high part counts become impossible to play online, and crashing is very common with many parts.  I dont see how official MP will work unless the bare minimum part count is at least 2000 or so, and that the server is allowed to set a part count cap on all launched vessels (not counting docked together in orbit as thatd ruin stations).  Also, i think that many things need to be overhauled when it comes to optimization, resource call spam (10x per frame is a little overkill imo), the very laggy aero/heating (compound the issues that are already pad enough with just physics interactions), ect.  Until the game runs well with at least 4x the current part counts, there is no way MP will become very practical.

 

 

Two, there needs to be some fair and balanced method of allowing time warp (noone will play without time warp), but not making it unfair or unbalanced.  The two major options i think of would be either a sync style system like DMP (with all its issues it does actually work fairly well), or a sort of everyone can warp at will and if any 2 players get within so and so distance of each other they slow down and cant warp until they pass by each other. 

The sync system is imo the best option, it somewhat lowers the amount of griefing, and you can only interact with someone if synced (and thus it would mean that both sides have to agree to interact with each other or something along those lines).  This would work for both combat and peaceful servers, as people couldnt engage in combat unless both sides actually wanted to, stopping cases of that warp in, destroy some poor guy's station, and warp away, but it isnt the simplest solution. 

The other option that i feel would work would be allowing everyone to warp at their liesure but slow or disable warp when nearing another player (so that people can interact).  This opens up a bit more options for griefers, but i think it could work if done right.

The other 2 options i thought may work but dismissed would be no warp at all (unless its a purely airplane server), and the whole everyone agrees to warp at the exact same time.  For starters, unless its you and a friend, there is no way to get a band of 10 or so players to all agree to warp (unless most are in SPH/VAB).  It just wont work, same as mots games that require alot of teamwork devolve into a few people being team players and most running off solo doing whatever they want to and not caring abotu rest.  trust me, ive played enough of that style game to say that griefing, solo action, and overall no care for the team is rampant.  As for disabling time warp 100%, well you can be sure itll ruin everything but perhaps LKO operations since everything past LKO takes forever and you have to have time warp available to some extent.

 

 

A few more things i think are an issue and needs to be adressed, would be stuff like griefing.  Every single MP game ive ever player had them to some extent, and while i know good admins can deal with the issue, overall its unavoidable and there will be people who do whatevber they canb to ruin someone else's day, destroy their hard work (assuming its not a war server where id say it needs to be free-for-all with no rules about attacking others), and overall annoy people.

There needs to be a way to lock a certain vessel to a particular player, and i think in this regard the player needs to be able to specify if they allow others to dock to, refuel from, or even use the craft that player launched.  Some like to deploy fuel stations, so it cant be just a plain and simple no interacting with other's work, but i think we should (military servers aside) make it impossible to "pirate" fuel from another's craft without their permission.  This is especially true of controlling vessels, one annoying aspect of DMP was that you spent all that time making a nice ship, launching it to jool, and circularizing, expecting to return tomorrow, only to find that ship was deorbited or moved into a terrible spot for you (or with fuel gone, bad orbit, ect).

 

 

I feel MP would be great, but until the game is heavily optimized and allows part counts in the thousands before any visible lagfest, i feel its better to not even waste time on MP since it just wont work until we get massive part counts available, and arent stuck with subpar performance.

[jm764]

43 minutes ago, razark said:

Question:

If Bob has a ship in LKO, and I am also in LKO but five minutes in his past what happens if his ship passes through a specific point in space, and five minutes later, I pass through the exact same point, what happens?

Assuming you don't "sync" and running in "real-time", you would pass though the same point he did 5 min in his past with out collision as he would still be 5min in the future. The past doesn't change the "future" version of a vehicle nor the future change a "past" one.

If you "synced" with him before then you would be in the SAME time subspace as him, THEN you'll probably end up colliding with him.

[razark]

At time X, his ship should be at that point.  When I (starting at time X-300) reach time X, where do I perceive his ship to be?  Where it was at time X, or where it is at time X+300?  When I sync with him, I go from time X to time X+300.  What happens to my position?  Am I at the same position as before I sync, or do I jump ahead along my orbit 300 seconds?  What about the position of planets in the solar system?  If he's heading to another planet, do I see him jump into high speed as he goes into timewarp?  Does he head off into the middle of nowhere, not even getting close to a planet, and then suddenly jump from interplanetary space to orbiting his destination?

[jm764]

28 minutes ago, razark said:

At time X, his ship should be at that point.  When I (starting at time X-300) reach time X, where do I perceive his ship to be?  Where it was at time X, or where it is at time X+300?  When I sync with him, I go from time X to time X+300.  What happens to my position?  Am I at the same position as before I sync, or do I jump ahead along my orbit 300 seconds?  What about the position of planets in the solar system?  If he's heading to another planet, do I see him jump into high speed as he goes into timewarp?  Does he head off into the middle of nowhere, not even getting close to a planet, and then suddenly jump from interplanetary space to orbiting his destination?

If you progress time normally with out syncing:

You would still be 300 behind his orbit as your time sub space would still be 300 behind his in real time. He and the planets would be at x+300 of his orbit so x+600 of your orbit in the past.

x-300 = x so your new orbit would be (x -300)+300= (x+300)+300 which is "x = x+600".

 

If you sync:

You would be in the same time sub space as he would since syncing would set your time of x to be equal with his. He and the planets would be at x of his orbit.

Your new orbit would be (x-300)+300 = x which is "x = x ".

 

Time warp is an instantaneous change as the server temporarily stops broadcasting the time warping player to the other players until they exit time warp, then it Castro their current position and time in the future.

 

This also applies to quick loading or reverting to the past, but it's EXTREMELY ILL-ADVISED to load/revert as it creates major time paradoxes and error in the host server files and can corrupt the entire server save file.

 

I've had to completely reset my server 6 times due to the errors caused by reverting after a major change in the future.I can make a video explaining how this works if you want.

[AlamoVampire]

@jm764 You are welcome to your opinion, but, I feel that multiplayer will be a huge disaster. Why? Let me list why:

1. Computer setups. I've said this before, but require myself to say it again. Not everyone has a PC that can handle huge part counts, huge means north of 300. Add in 2, 3, 4 or more players and part counts skyrocket. 

2. Mods. Some people run a few mods while others run tons. You make something using BD and I don't. We go to a station to fuel up. Do I see you? Do you see me and my Novapunch ship because you don't use novapunch?  How does that work? Do we crash? 

3. Time warp. I want to go to Eeloo and need to warp to its window but at the same moment you wish to go to Moho. Do I mess you up warping to an Eeloo window? Do you mess me up warping to a Moho window?

4. Launch pad. Expanding on point 3, can you use the SAME launch pad when I am using it and waing to an Eeloo launch window?

5. Saves. How will that work? Will I be forced to save your stuff on my rig and mine on yours?

5a. Editing saves? How will that not break other players?

6. Quick loading/Reverting. How does this affect you when I do either? What about it on me? What about a SINGLE person with it turned off? Does it disable mine?

7. Crew death? Need I say more?

 

KSP is not suited to be a multiplayer type game, it just isn't. KSP is a perfect platform for 1 player in any given save file. Do not get me wrong, I like multiplayer games where. It makes sense to have that feature. It makes as much sense to have a multiplayer in a game like this as it does making green lights make you stop and red let you go. No, much like the ORIGINAL resources KSP was supposed to have multiplayer needs to be scrapped until every single problem and contingency has a 100% workable solution, and sadly that's never gonna happen.

Edited December 19, 2015 by AlamoVampire

[jm764]

4 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

@jm764 You are welcome to your opinion, but, I feel that multiplayer will be a huge disaster. Why? Let me list why:

1. Computer setups. I've said this before, but require myself to say it again. Not everyone has a PC that can handle huge part counts, huge means north of 300. Add in 2, 3, 4 or more players and part counts skyrocket. 

2. Mods. Some people run a few mods while others run tons. You make something using BD and I don't. We go to a station to fuel up. Do I see you? Do you see me and my Novapunch ship because you don't use novapunch?  How does that work? Do we crash? 

3. Time warp. I want to go to Eeloo and need to warp to its window but at the same moment you wish to go to Moho. Do I mess you up warping to an Eeloo window? Do you mess me up warping to a Moho window?

4. Launch pad. Expanding on point 3, can you use the SAME launch pad when I am using it and waing to an Eeloo launch window?

5. Saves. How will that work? Will I be forced to save your stuff on my rig and mine on yours?

5a. Editing saves? How will that not break other players?

6. Quick loading/Reverting. How does this affect you when I do either? What about it on me? What about a SINGLE person with it turned off? Does it disable mine?

7. Crew death? Need I say more?

 

KSP is not suited to be a multiplayer type game, it just isn't. KSP is a perfect platform for 1 player in any given save file. Do not get me wrong, I like multiplayer games where. It makes sense to have that feature. It makes as much sense to have a multiplayer in a game like this as it does making green lights make you stop and red let you go. No, much like the ORIGINAL resources KSP was supposed to have multiplayer needs to be scrapped until every single problem and contingency has a 100% workable solution, and sadly that's never gonna happen.

1. I've run my server with some fairly old/under powered computers and it runs fine for me and most people involved. Most of the physics is done by the player's PC for ONLY their currently loaded ship, the server handles the rest. Most lag is caused by multiple people being in the same area with their own ships and the server being unable to process all the commands fast enough for each person. I've run my modded ksp game setup just fine on a PC with only an Athlon 64 X2 4600+ dual core cpu, an on board Nvidia GeForce 6150 gpu and a Geforce GT 210 gpu card, with 4GB of DDR1 RAM, with out much lag even for large 500+ part ships.

2. Ships ONLY load if you have the mod. If you don't then the ship DOESN'T load even if you're only missing one modded part and/or resource.

3. The moment you start warping the game moves you to you're own "sub-space" separate from everyone else until  you "sync" to another player or they sync to you so it doesn't affect anyone around you.

4. Yes, you're ship won't be loaded in anyone elses game untill it's about 100m away from the starting point. If your ship is 100m+ long then the entire ship must be that length plus 100m away.

5+5a. The save is both locally saved and copied to the server. You can change it in single player, but when you log back in to the server it will be overwritten by the server's copy of the save file. Ships craft files and assemblies will remain unchanged though.

6. The same rules apply as warping normally just in reverse. Even if you or someone else turns it off it still functions for everyone including you do to a restriction by the KSP game engine. The only problem is when you make major changes to your ship, kerbal, or someone else's ship then revert them. This make MAJOR ERRORS in the server save and will make it eventually corrupt beyond repair, thus quick load/save and reverting is almost always banned (but unable to be turned off) or ill advised by the server admins.

7. Works as it normally does, but due to some minor bugs expect to see 20 of the same kerbals magically reappear later.

 

As it stands now KSP is technically not 100% suited (85% from what I've experienced with DMP) for multiplayer, but in concept real space agencies use it all the time to collaborate missions, launch payloads, etc.

There's no such thing as "perfect" when it comes to video games, it's impossible due to software and hardware issues (even on consoles).

[AlamoVampire]

Like I said earlier, to each his or her own. To be honest, if this "multiplayer" nonsense comes to fruition, and yes, for KSP I think its nonsense, as I really do not see how it makes the game any better. I still see too many hurdles for this to be worth while, but, in any case, so long as, I am not FORCED to touch it, I really could not care less, but, force me onto it, and well, its a BIG problem. I refuse to use it, touch it or find it valid. Thats my opinion. I disavow multiplayer for this game. Am I bullheaded? probably, but, KSP + Multiplayer = good? Not in this kerbonauts book. Its a 1 player game for me, always has, always will be. So, as the old folks say: you kids and your rock pops and your hip raps can get off my yard! <old man cough>

 

seriously tho, as long as its 100% optional and I am not forced to be with in a light year of it, have fun.

[jm764]

7 minutes ago, AlamoVampire said:

Like I said earlier, to each his or her own. To be honest, if this "multiplayer" nonsense comes to fruition, and yes, for KSP I think its nonsense, as I really do not see how it makes the game any better. I still see too many hurdles for this to be worth while, but, in any case, so long as, I am not FORCED to touch it, I really could not care less, but, force me onto it, and well, its a BIG problem. I refuse to use it, touch it or find it valid. Thats my opinion. I disavow multiplayer for this game. Am I bullheaded? probably, but, KSP + Multiplayer = good? Not in this kerbonauts book. Its a 1 player game for me, always has, always will be. So, as the old folks say: you kids and your rock pops and your hip raps can get off my yard! <old man cough>

 

seriously tho, as long as its 100% optional and I am not forced to be with in a light year of it, have fun.

Well multiplayer isn't for everyone that I can agree with, but I know for a fact that Squad won't FORCE you to use it. Beside if they did I think 80% of the fan base would just leave due to a stupid rule like that. I'm sure Squad wouldn't want to ruin themselves like Maxis did with SimCIty.

[AlamoVampire]

I am not sure what Maxis was thinking. But, the one that scares me is whats happening with PGI and Mechwarrior online. But as far as KSP goes, I still do not see how they can make multiplayer work w/out hurting this fun game. IF they can do so, and do so right, more power to them, but, you can still count me out. I think this is a title better suited to single player, but thats me. @jm764

[razark]

On 12/18/2015 at 0:07 PM, jm764 said:

I can make a video explaining how this works if you want.

Actually, I think that might help.

I'd like to clear up any misunderstanding of the system so that when I oppose it, I know exactly what I am against and why.

[Nathair]

14 minutes ago, AlamoVampire said:

as far as KSP goes, I still do not see how they can make multiplayer work w/out hurting this fun game. IF they can do so, and do so right, more power to them, but, you can still count me out. I think this is a title better suited to single player, but thats me.

That's me too.

[razark]

Like I've said before, a large number of players together just doesn't make sense to me.  However, I can see multiplayer working for small groups.  One person flying the B-52/White Knight, and another flying the X-15/SpaceshipOne.  Or an Apollo recreation with one player being the CDR flying the LM and another being the LMP and calling out important data, while a third is the CMP.

I simply can't imagine how it would work for much more than that.  (I'm also willing to admit that it could simply be a failure of my imagination, and maybe someone can show me how it will work.)

[AlamoVampire]

you are not the only one who fails to see how this would work. I fail to see how they would cope with mods, timewarp, part counts, high end vs low end rigs, loading, quick loading, various settings of like crew death being permanent or any other number of issues. I think its a mistake to push into multiplayer, i think its going to do nothing but harm, but, thats me. @razark

Edited December 20, 2015 by AlamoVampire

[322997am]

16 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

@jm764 You are welcome to your opinion, but, I feel that multiplayer will be a huge disaster. Why? Let me list why:

1. Computer setups. I've said this before, but require myself to say it again. Not everyone has a PC that can handle huge part counts, huge means north of 300. Add in 2, 3, 4 or more players and part counts skyrocket. 

2. Mods. Some people run a few mods while others run tons. You make something using BD and I don't. We go to a station to fuel up. Do I see you? Do you see me and my Novapunch ship because you don't use novapunch?  How does that work? Do we crash? 

3. Time warp. I want to go to Eeloo and need to warp to its window but at the same moment you wish to go to Moho. Do I mess you up warping to an Eeloo window? Do you mess me up warping to a Moho window?

4. Launch pad. Expanding on point 3, can you use the SAME launch pad when I am using it and waing to an Eeloo launch window?

5. Saves. How will that work? Will I be forced to save your stuff on my rig and mine on yours?

5a. Editing saves? How will that not break other players?

6. Quick loading/Reverting. How does this affect you when I do either? What about it on me? What about a SINGLE person with it turned off? Does it disable mine?

7. Crew death? Need I say more?

 

KSP is not suited to be a multiplayer type game, it just isn't. KSP is a perfect platform for 1 player in any given save file. Do not get me wrong, I like multiplayer games where. It makes sense to have that feature. It makes as much sense to have a multiplayer in a game like this as it does making green lights make you stop and red let you go. No, much like the ORIGINAL resources KSP was supposed to have multiplayer needs to be scrapped until every single problem and contingency has a 100% workable solution, and sadly that's never gonna happen.

I disagree. I have a solution for all of these issues. Performance can be fixed by "sharing" cpu resources over the Internet using multi cup hyperthreading. Mods: if u have a mod and the server does not have it installed/allowed you get an error message. If you do not have a mod that u need to join the server u get error message. For launch Windows you have a second type of time warp. It's all players agree and land their craft and if they don't it spontaneously combusts and the warper  has a certain amount of time like 10min to get where they want it. For launch its simple. Have players when getting on for the first time set up their own ksc where they want it and how they want it. Since disk space is not the biggest issue for Ksp (my save is 1g) then you could just save all the stuff onto the host. And you don't edit saves cause there on only one pc. Quick loading just teleports you back to wer u were an how u were. It does not affect anyone else. And for crew death every player has a file called crewdeaths and it is literally a list of killed kerbonauts. That might take time but it's achievable.

Edited December 20, 2015 by 322997am
Stupid iOS Smartype.

[Waxing_Kibbous]

The issue with simply "adding multiplayer" is that it adds a whole level of complexity onto the dev team- more code to maintain (and probably a lot of it rewritten), server infrastructure, security issues, etc. I don't really get as a science/exploration game how MP would add much if anything at all (space races?), and as far as war games go they are a dime a dozen, plus the fact that a war game designed as a war game from the ground up will obviously be a better experience than a game hacked into one. I would guess 99% of people playing KSP would rather see more effort going into single player in the form of parts, planets, stability/optimizations, user experience, utilities, and refinements in general.

Quote

As it stands now KSP is technically not 100% suited (85% from what I've experienced with DMP) for multiplayer,

There is a saying in coding- the first 90% takes 10% of the time, and the last 10% takes the other 90% of the time

 

Edited December 20, 2015 by Waxing_Kibbous

[jm764]

11 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

 

10 hours ago, AlamoVampire said:

you are not the only one who fails to see how this would work. I fail to see how they would cope with mods, timewarp, part counts, high end vs low end rigs, loading, quick loading, various settings of like crew death being permanent or any other number of issues. I think its a mistake to push into multiplayer, i think its going to do nothing but harm, but, thats me. @razark

 

1 hour ago, 322997am said:

I disagree. I have a solution for all of these issues. Performance can be fixed by "sharing" cpu resources over the Internet using multi cup hyperthreading. Mods: if u have a mod and the server does not have it installed/allowed you get an error message. If you do not have a mod that u need to join the server u get error message. For launch Windows you have a second type of time warp. It's all players agree and land their craft and if they don't it spontaneously combusts and the warper  has a certain amount of time like 10min to get where they want it. For launch its simple. Have players when getting on for the first time set up their own ksc where they want it and how they want it. Since disk space is not the biggest issue for Ksp (my save is 1g) then you could just save all the stuff onto the host. And you don't edit saves cause there on only one pc. Quick loading just teleports you back to wer u were an how u were. It does not affect anyone else. And for crew death every player has a file called crewdeaths and it is literally a list of killed kerbonauts. That might take time but it's achievable.

 

10 hours ago, razark said:

Actually, I think that might help.

I'd like to clear up any misunderstanding of the system so that when I oppose it, I know exactly what I am against and why.

Rather than tack each one of these questions individually I'll just answer them in the video as I show them. DMP already has many of these functionalities built in, but I'd be re-writing the manual for it if I tried to type it all here in detail.

 

 

10 hours ago, razark said:

Like I've said before, a large number of players together just doesn't make sense to me.  However, I can see multiplayer working for small groups.  One person flying the B-52/White Knight, and another flying the X-15/SpaceshipOne.  Or an Apollo recreation with one player being the CDR flying the LM and another being the LMP and calling out important data, while a third is the CMP.

I simply can't imagine how it would work for much more than that.  (I'm also willing to admit that it could simply be a failure of my imagination, and maybe someone can show me how it will work.)

Well it's up to you to believe what you want, I nor anyone else can't change that.

 

29 minutes ago, Waxing_Kibbous said:

The issue with simply "adding multiplayer" is that it adds a whole level of complexity onto the dev team- more code to maintain (and probably a lot of it rewritten), server infrastructure, security issues, etc. I don't really get as a science/exploration game how MP would add much if anything at all (space races?), and as far as war games go they are a dime a dozen, plus the fact that a war game designed as a war game from the ground up will obviously be a better experience than a game hacked into one. I would guess 99% of people playing KSP would rather see more effort going into single player in the form of parts, planets, stability/optimizations, user experience, utilities, and refinements in general.

There is a saying in coding- the first 90% takes 10% of the time, and the last 10% takes the other 90% of the time

 

To clarify Squad isn't even close to actively developing multiplayer at all, and will always prioritize working on the single player experience over the multiplayer one.

 

 

Just remember everyone multiplayer is technically nothing more than "single player" sharing the same resources with other "single player" games. Same applies to how DMP and SMP (probably will) works.

[severedsolo]

On 18/12/2015 at 2:00 PM, tater said:

If anything can possibly happen that would not in a single-player version due to subspace, I'm entirely uninterested. If you are going to posit "subspace" for multiplayer, then add warp drive, and make subspace a thing.

It's not that sort of subspace.

Each player is in their own "time bubble" and can warp freely (I believe it makes a pretty good stab at guessing where other vessels would be at that particular time too, but haven't played much so can't confirm this). If however, you wish to interact with another player (say build a station together) you can "sync" your time bubble to theirs, and you'll both be able to interact.

[tater]

18 minutes ago, severedsolo said:

It's not that sort of subspace.

Each player is in their own "time bubble" and can warp freely (I believe it makes a pretty good stab at guessing where other vessels would be at that particular time too, but haven't played much so can't confirm this). If however, you wish to interact with another player (say build a station together) you can "sync" your time bubble to theirs, and you'll both be able to interact.

I know it's not "real" subspace, but functionally it's little different, just add warp drive then people can rationalize the silliness of syncing a bubble. I stand by the first bit of the thing you quoted. If anything can possibly happen in MP that would not happen if every single vehicle was on my local machine, then I am totally uninterested.

[Kerbart]

I thought timewarp was not a big deal (I always thought it was, but I'm happy that it appears I'm wrong on that) and that the multiplayer mod showed how it could be dealt with?

With that out of the way, the biggest challange in cooperative multiplayer mode are griefers, I think. But that's nothing a ban hammer can't fix either.

[Martian Music]

NOT online multiplayer, rather at least the ability to create a LAN server. I'm dying to play the game with my brother and cooperate in missions.

And IF online, I don't think a server with a capacity larger than 4 would go well. It works, I know, but it won't be good. Just my 2 cents on this.

[SchweinAero]

18 hours ago, tater said:

I know it's not "real" subspace, but functionally it's little different, just add warp drive then people can rationalize the silliness of syncing a bubble. I stand by the first bit of the thing you quoted. If anything can possibly happen in MP that would not happen if every single vehicle was on my local machine, then I am totally uninterested.

Independent timewarp for different players should need no more rationalizing than there being timewarp in the first place. It is just accelerated waiting. The big thing about DMP's current system is that Delta-V requirements and travel times are exactly the same as in singleplayer. You cannot make space travel any easier by using such a system.

How limited a multiplayer mode would you like? If two vehicles can perform maneuvers simultaneously, then that is already impossible on one machine, correct?

[tater]

7 hours ago, SchweinAero said:

Independent timewarp for different players should need no more rationalizing than there being timewarp in the first place. It is just accelerated waiting. The big thing about DMP's current system is that Delta-V requirements and travel times are exactly the same as in singleplayer. You cannot make space travel any easier by using such a system.

How limited a multiplayer mode would you like? If two vehicles can perform maneuvers simultaneously, then that is already impossible on one machine, correct?

Time warp is fine, how I clock every single object in the universe doesn't change what is happening. I expect all clocks to move in lockstep, or I'm entirely uninterested in KSP MP. 2 rockets launch at the same time? There better be 2 launch pads. The simplest statement would be that a 3d person watching a MP session seeing everything at once should be unable to tell it's MP, past the fact that 2 ships might maneuver at the same time. That's all I want to see, really. If my kid could join my game, and take over one of the craft and we fly them at once.

My opinion doesn't matter, every game that shouldn't have MP but adds it uses some dumb instancing/subspace/whatever system, they are all equally silly, and I play none of them, so like I said, my opinion doesn't matter.