What do you think of the new forums?

[Virtualgenius]

@DuoDex I went and searched for the forum notification and noticed this quote from Kasper

A backup of the current forum will be available to moderators and administrators for a while after the update, if someone is for some reason not able to recover a particular blog/thread we can retrieve it  Does this mean you could access my subscription list and give it back to me   or  at least the topic lists emailed to me so I can re subscribe 

Edited January 6, 2016 by Virtualgenius

[Red Iron Crown]

@Virtualgenius Sorry, we do not have access to subscription lists from the old forum. I feel your pain here as I had a large number of subscriptions that I lost, this is one of the things that worked fine in testing but did not with the live move.

[adsii1970]

I know I have mentioned this before, but is there a chance we will "gain" a horizontal line button? I've tried using code but no luck...

[Majorjim!]

The new forum feels so quiet and empty compared to how it was before the move. Lots of people left and with no subs to check everyday for new threads everyone is disconnected which does not help. I'm sure mods, or whomever can see the large drop in numbers. Is the forum dying? Does someone need to promote this forum better?

 The only other alternative, Reddit, is no alternative..

[DuoDex]

31 minutes ago, Majorjim said:

The new forum feels so quiet and empty compared to how it was before the move. Lots of people left and with no subs to check everyday for new threads everyone is disconnected which does not help. I'm sure mods, or whomever can see the large drop in numbers. Is the forum dying? Does someone need to promote this forum better?

 The only other alternative, Reddit, is no alternative..

Actually, checking Google's stuff and Alexa PageRank systems shows no significant difference from vBulletin and IPS traffic (though there is the usual post-release slump).

[adsii1970]

23 minutes ago, Majorjim said:

The new forum feels so quiet and empty compared to how it was before the move. Lots of people left and with no subs to check everyday for new threads everyone is disconnected which does not help. I'm sure mods, or whomever can see the large drop in numbers. Is the forum dying? Does someone need to promote this forum better?

 The only other alternative, Reddit, is no alternative..

That's an interesting comment. I believe it is a mixed bag - while we are seeing a lot of the old timers leaving the forum, there are a lot of new people who are signing in. One of the things we can do to support the new forum is to 1) accept that this new format is here to stay. 2) Urge other old timers who complain about the forum to tone down their critiques. and 3) become more active in our own promotion of the forum and sell it's positive attributes. There are some really great things that can be done with the new forum and I am sure that as future updates are made, things will get even better. After all, there is always a transition period whenever switching to something new!

Now I am not saying we cannot make suggestions on how to improve the functionality of the new forum, but for us to adopt the attitude of "this just isn't as great as the old forum," I believe, is driving users away. I know there have been a few times when I have thought about leaving the forum. It's why I've quit complaining about all the things we don't have with the new software and have begun to simply adapt and encourage. Again. Just my two cents!

 

[Majorjim!]

Just now, adsii1970 said:

That's an interesting comment. I believe it is a mixed bag - while we are seeing a lot of the old timers leaving the forum, there are a lot of new people who are signing in. One of the things we can do to support the new forum is to 1) accept that this new format is here to stay. 2) Urge other old timers who complain about the forum to tone down their critiques. and 3) become more active in our own promotion of the forum and sell it's positive attributes. There are some really great things that can be done with the new forum and I am sure that as future updates are made, things will get even better. After all, there is always a transition period whenever switching to something new!

Now I am not saying we cannot make suggestions on how to improve the functionality of the new forum, but for us to adopt the attitude of "this just isn't as great as the old forum," I believe, is driving users away. I know there have been a few times when I have thought about leaving the forum. It's why I've quit complaining about all the things we don't have with the new software and have begun to simply adapt and encourage. Again. Just my two cents!

 

I agree and considering I didn't say the new forum is worse or needs changing or should be like it was, you leave me a little confused. I am getting used to the new layout and all the new things we can do and I promote the site in the only way I know how, to post craft.

 

Just now, DuoDex said:

Actually, checking Google's stuff and Alexa PageRank systems shows no significant difference from vBulletin and IPS traffic (though there is the usual post-release slump).

My experience is purely based on the spacecraft exchange. That thread is a lot quieter than before the forum move. A LOT quieter.. I have also noticed a lot of well known forum users posting things to reddit and not here which is worrying. That place is horrific.

[adsii1970]

3 minutes ago, Majorjim said:

I agree and considering I didn't say the new forum is worse or needs changing or should be like it was, you leave me a little confused. I am getting used to the new layout and all the new things we can do and I promote the site in the only way I know how, to post craft.

@Majorjim I never meant to imply you did.  I was just using broad examples of what I have seen some of the other old timers say and simply saying that in contrast to how they are behaving, we can do more good to the health of the forum by being positive.

Not only can we promote the forum by posting craft, but by also welcoming the newer users, sharing screen captures, images, and anything else that will promote sharing our love of the game on the forum.

[Majorjim!]

Just now, adsii1970 said:

@Majorjim I never meant to imply you did.  I was just using broad examples of what I have seen some of the other old timers say and simply saying that in contrast to how they are behaving, we can do more good to the health of the forum by being positive.

Not only can we promote the forum by posting craft, but by also welcoming the newer users, sharing screen captures, images, and anything else that will promote sharing our love of the game on the forum.

Also agreed, I apologise (This is the British spelling, damn US software) for wrongly accusing you.

[adsii1970]

3 minutes ago, Majorjim said:

Also agreed, I apologise (This is the British spelling, damn US software) for wrongly accusing you.

No harm done - in spelling or otherwise. My father and I both were in the military and I spent nearly 1/4 of my life in Europe. One of the bad things about any public forum that's Internet based is sometimes what we are thinking does not translate into words too well. Had you and I been sitting at a tavern over fish and chips with a pint (yes, I had more than my share while visiting England in 1992 and 1993) and the same conversation, we'd be able to communicate better with nonverbal communications.  

[Majorjim!]

Just now, adsii1970 said:

No harm done - in spelling or otherwise. My father and I both were in the military and I spent nearly 1/4 of my life in Europe. One of the bad things about any public forum that's Internet based is sometimes what we are thinking does not translate into words too well. Had you and I been sitting at a tavern over fish and chips with a pint (yes, I had more than my share while visiting England in 1992 and 1993) and the same conversation, we'd be able to communicate better with nonverbal communications.  

I totally agree. The calming qualities of good fish and chips is well known throughout the land.

 

[DuoDex]

There was a lot of angst when Rocket Builders was closed down, and I think some of the more "popular users" might have left because of the RB close, instead of staying calm and just moving over to the Spacecraft Exchange. Obviously that would cause SE to lose traffic, but if you look at the other subforums they seem to be quite bustling, especially with (cross your fingers!) 1.1 on the horizon.

[adsii1970]

1 minute ago, DuoDex said:

There was a lot of angst when Rocket Builders was closed down, and I think some of the more "popular users" might have left because of the RB close, instead of staying calm and just moving over to the Spacecraft Exchange. Obviously that would cause SE to lose traffic, but if you look at the other subforums they seem to be quite bustling, especially with (cross your fingers!) 1.1 on the horizon.

I am still uncertain how RB (which was considered as being bad and not migrated to the new forum) and sharing craft on the page as it is now is any different. Please do not misunderstand what I am trying to ask...  For example, I will use my fictitious "Kersplat Aerospace Industries" - if I set up a forum page just to share my craft on it, does that constitute a violation of the forum rules? Or is it when I set in a corporate structure and recruit testers, designers, etc. as a part of it?

[DuoDex]

23 minutes ago, adsii1970 said:

I am still uncertain how RB (which was considered as being bad and not migrated to the new forum) and sharing craft on the page as it is now is any different. Please do not misunderstand what I am trying to ask...  For example, I will use my fictitious "Kersplat Aerospace Industries" - if I set up a forum page just to share my craft on it, does that constitute a violation of the forum rules? Or is it when I set in a corporate structure and recruit testers, designers, etc. as a part of it?

Corporate structure is forbidden under the umbrella of roleplay, and in other cases I would be sure to exercise my judgment (erring on the side of caution, of course).

[adsii1970]

Just now, DuoDex said:

Corporate structure is forbidden under the umbrella of roleplay, and in other cases I would be sure to exercise my judgment (erring on the side of caution, of course).

So, then in theory (as my goal for this year is to go to December 31st without any new infractions or warnings of violations of forum rules ), I could set up a Kersplat Aerospace Industries page to highlight and promote my craft designs... providing that it remains more of a repository than anything else?

[DuoDex]

Yes. Maybe. Sorry.

[Sean Mirrsen]

2.2j is the kind of rule that just beckons me to find legitimate ways around it. It's obnoxious and pointlessly strict and is exactly the sort of thing I'd never pay attention to were I not in-character at all times.

For instance, I could do recruiting for a PBP RP that would take place outside the visible forum, as was established in an earlier discussion.
Then, seeing as it would no longer be technically RP, I could post the end result of an RP session - as a "story in progress" - into the KSP Fan Works if it was KSP-themed, or into The Lounge if not.
I could basically run an RPG in PMs and just post the status updates as the GM/storyteller for the players to see, wherever I need to without technically breaking any rules.

All 2.2j would do is add clutter to my inbox. It's really a pointlessly broad rule. A lot like gun control. An unruly person can cause trouble for moderators even without roleplaying. A team of roleplayers playing the same game is less likely to cause trouble because they're working together. The rule is punishing roleplayers when it should be punishing those who cause trouble.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Sean Mirrsen
Phrasing

[KSK]

1 hour ago, Sean Mirrsen said:

2.2j is punishing roleplayers when it should be punishing those who cause trouble.

It's water under the bridge now but for what it's worth, I agree. If someone is being a jerk, deal with them accordingly whether they're roleplaying or not. Conversely, if someone is being generally pleasant and harmonious, nobody should care whether they're roleplaying or not. Punish the action not the excuse for that action.

Edited January 6, 2016 by KSK

[Vanamonde]

Quote

The rule is punishing roleplayers when it should be punishing those who cause trouble.

The rule was instituted because the rivalries of fictional countries and companies became so intense that it was overflowing into non-RP threads, cluttering the forum with off-topic posts, and forcing the moderation team to hand out numerous infractions and even some bans. The rule was not instituted to punish anyone, but to protect people like you from all of that acrimonious nonsense. 

[Ten Key]

5 hours ago, adsii1970 said:

So, then in theory (as my goal for this year is to go to December 31st without any new infractions or warnings of violations of forum rules ), I could set up a Kersplat Aerospace Industries page to highlight and promote my craft designs... providing that it remains more of a repository than anything else?

It goes without saying that my opinion doesn't matter here, but my general "rule of thumb" on this is that "branding" is okay. Branding is mostly visual-- logos, flags, maybe a banner or two and, importantly, is non-interactive. It serves simply as a way of saying "I made this" while offering little opportunity for people to get their feelings hurt or start a flame war. In this capacity, I don't really see a "company" as being any different from the various space agencies that populate the mission reports area. KSP already has contractors, and the design side of the game is every bit as important as the flying part of the game. 

[Sean Mirrsen]

So? Forbid RP in non-RP threads, infract or mute offenders. There was a specific problem, and the chosen solution was the equivalent of setting the house on fire to evict a squatter - the squatter moved on, but nobody else can use the house now!

And no, the rules of the forum - all rules, as stated - specifically exist with the pretext that all who are found in violation of the rules will be punished. Whatever the rule was created for, punishing offenders is its operational mechanism. Instating a rule when its violations are happening, is always done with the understanding that whoever are meant to be punished, are going to either cease violating the rule, or be punished. And people who fall under its "to be punished" clause, in 2.2j's case, have only a tangential relation to the cause of the rule's instating. By "protecting" them in this way, the rule also took away one of the people's (especially people like us's) freedoms. (But, I really shouldn't be surprised. This whole forum move snafu was centered around taking away freedoms, as it were. Of choice, of expression, of right to complain... it seems it's just traditional by now.)

The only "acrimonious nonsense" I can see in this case is labelled "2.2j". Bitter in nature, foolish, and absurd.
(Yes I used a dictionary. I'm not a native English speaker, fancy that. :P)

[KasperVld]

The rules are neither the subject of this topic nor up for discussion. The roleplay rule was created in the early days of the forums (2011/2012) after the roleplaying in one section of the forum got out of hand to such a degree that it impacted the whole forum. In my (extensive) experience moderating communities roleplaying does lead to an increased workload for moderators, and an overall worse experience for the large majority of forum users. I understand that roleplaying is fun, and I've been a part of many roleplaying communities in the past, but this forum is not the place for that.

With that said, please get back on topic.

[adsii1970]

@KasperVld: It was never my intent to cause a ruckus but to simply ask for a clarification of the new forum rules as not to be hit with any penalties, violations, etc. The evolved discussion into rule 2.2j was not intended nor was it my efforts to undermine the rules. Again, it was for clarification in an area where the forum rules appear to be murky at best.