I will TRY TO DO A 6000m\s JET SPEED RECORD !!!!

[SpaceplaneAddict]

Trying to improve my Velocity run for the aircraft circumnavigation challenge, I almost hit 1700. With a cockpit. And fully fueled. Include the swept wings and pair of AV-R8 canards. One rapier. Yeah, I'lol show it soon.

[iLikeRovers]

I was interested to see how much the heating problem prevents high speeds. So I made a sandbox new game with no heat effects.

Surprisingly I can't get that much faster. Either the drag is too high or the air is too thin. Sometimes when I was going faster than 1650m/s I would get sudden loss of thrust, even at heights of 10 000m.

 

Edited January 5, 2016 by iLikeRovers
It looks like I can't get rid of the broken imgur album...

[Gojira1000]

After melting a few more, I don't think 1700 can be done in stock parts without skipping out of the atmo and then doing a suicidal drive down into the thick. In level flight there's a big fat wall somewhere around 1690-95. I think we have found the Drag Constant. *sticks a flag in it*

[Matuchkin]

Some nice links for assistance:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersonic_speed#Classification_of_Mach_regimes

Photo of the "Aurora" Hypersoar. Top secret until a few years ago, I think. Notice the curvature, wedge shape and stubby flying wing design that starts to take place in Hypersonic aircraft.

As well as that, here's a photo of the Waverider X-51A. Notice that, at those speeds, aircraft start taking the shape of missiles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-51#/media/File:X-51A_Waverider.jpg

And that's just at hypersonic speeds. Your planes are currently in that regime, between 1710-3415m/s.

You are trying to go at what is classified as "high-hypersonic", from 3,415-8,465m/s. I quote wikipedia:

"Thermal control becomes a dominant design consideration. Structure must either be designed to operate hot, or be protected by special silicate tiles or similar. Chemically reacting flow can also cause corrosion of the vehicle's skin, with free-atomic oxygen featuring in very high-speed flows. Hypersonic designs are often forced into blunt configurations because of the aerodynamic heating rising with a reduced radius of curvature." -"Hypersonic Speed." Wikipedia. Wikimedia Foundation, n.d. Web. 06 Jan. 2016.

At these speeds, thermal shielding is a main concern, as is the corrosion of the aircraft itself. You, as a matter of fact, are trying to go past 6000m/s, close to the Ultrasonic regime. Aircraft start looking like sharp wedges.

At this point, past 8,465m/s, the only way to get around the trouble is by building a reentry capsule with an engine at one end. A powerful rocket engine. To go at those speeds under the stratosphere is pure insanity; expect to melt.

Keep in mind that you are going close to the ultrasonic regime, on a planet in which objects heat up even more with speed. Read the wikipedia article, heed my advice. At this point, it is better to do it with FAR, because everything I said to you right now will apply to the game with that mod installed. However, I voted that you can fullfill your ambitious challenge, and am here to encourage you. Godspeed.

Edited January 7, 2016 by 073198681

[Matuchkin]

On 12/31/2015 at 5:36 PM, GoSlash27 said:

The heat rips parts off long before you get to Mach 6.

The OP claimed to have reached 3km/sec on stock parts and jets. He must've been mistaken. 3km/sec is impossible, let alone 6 km/sec.

Best,

-Slashy

Ah, that's the thing. I recently noticed that 3km/sec on kerbin is synonymous with 8km/sec IRL. That is because, while 3km/sec would just be average supersonic flight on Earth, on Kerbin it is supposed to act as if a vessel is going ultrasonic, inducing the effects of reentry on a vessel. For that reason, launching rockets can start burning, hypersonic jets will be flaming, etc.

Here's a recommendation: Use Real Solar System and Ferram Aerospace Research for a short while. In contrast to what people might think, those mods might make things easier- in RSS, flight effects are more realistlic, and you won't experience devastating ultrasonic effects on your plane while traveling at measly supersonic speeds. With FAR, there are more things that you can do to your aircraft that will enable it to withstand huge speeds, other than reduce mass+ add thrust.

Also, don't go fully stock on this one. Use B9 Procedural Wings, to get wing angles and curvatures unseen in stock wings. Otherwise, you will have a horrible time reaching your high-hypersonic goal.

I also have my own ideas on how to do this with jet engines:

Your plane will need to have as much intake capacity as possible (I won't reccomend AJE here because I know you're all sick of my love for realism). Just use POWERFUL jet engines to fling yourself out of the dense stratosphere, gaining speed. Then, when at altitude, fire up the jet engines. They won't have enough oxygen, but they might fire at a low thrust, nudging your jet along. Doesn't work? Use rocket engines- it will still be an achievement if you do it in the atmosphere.

Edited January 7, 2016 by 073198681

[Matuchkin]

11 hours ago, 073198681 said:

Photo of the "Aurora" Hypersoar. Top secret until a few years ago, I think. Notice the curvature, wedge shape and stubby flying wing design that starts to take place in Hypersonic aircraft.

I had a mistake there. The Aurora is a whole different craft. It is still top secret, and most people do not even know it exists. There have been very few sightings, with people seeing a black isosceles-triangle-looking-thing in the sky. In most appearance occasions of the Aurora, city residents hear a series of very strong sonic booms, but don't see the source.

[GoSlash27]

7 hours ago, 073198681 said:

Ah, that's the thing. I recently noticed that 3km/sec on kerbin is synonymous with 8km/sec IRL. That is because, while 3km/sec would just be average supersonic flight on Earth, on Kerbin it is supposed to act as if a vessel is going ultrasonic, inducing the effects of reentry on a vessel. For that reason, launching rockets can start burning, hypersonic jets will be flaming, etc.

Here's a recommendation: Use Real Solar System and Ferram Aerospace Research for a short while. In contrast to what people might think, those mods might make things easier- in RSS, flight effects are more realistlic, and you won't experience devastating ultrasonic effects on your plane while traveling at measly supersonic speeds. With FAR, there are more things that you can do to your aircraft that will enable it to withstand huge speeds, other than reduce mass+ add thrust.

Also, don't go fully stock on this one. Use B9 Procedural Wings, to get wing angles and curvatures unseen in stock wings. Otherwise, you will have a horrible time reaching your high-hypersonic goal.

I also have my own ideas on how to do this with jet engines:

Your plane will need to have as much intake capacity as possible (I won't reccomend AJE here because I know you're all sick of my love for realism). Just use POWERFUL jet engines to fling yourself out of the dense stratosphere, gaining speed. Then, when at altitude, fire up the jet engines. They won't have enough oxygen, but they might fire at a low thrust, nudging your jet along. Doesn't work? Use rocket engines- it will still be an achievement if you do it in the atmosphere.

 Well...

 The challenge is about "stock and jets only", so I don't see that as an option.

Best,
-Slashy

 

[Matuchkin]

3 hours ago, GoSlash27 said:

Well...

 The challenge is about "stock and jets only", so I don't see that as an option.

Well, I don't see it happening in stock KSP. Since he challenged himself, he has the right to alter his mod limits- so either it's that, or it's nothing, I guess. He can not possibly go full stock on this, so why not make it a bit more realistic via RSS and FAR? You can try to use the stock aerodynamics model and atmosphere model, but you will have to exaggerate everything extremely. By that, I mean EXTREMELY extreme. B9 procedural is mandatory in this challenge also, and nothing is possible without it. Also, with FAR, RSS and B9, this will be extremely interesting, other than in stock when the only rules are "more power, less weight, and you're dead if you go past mach 3 so give up".

I hope the creator of this thread agrees with that, it's his choice...

Edited January 8, 2016 by 073198681

[Matuchkin]

By the way, I'd think you need this. It's called the HTV-2 hypersonic glider. Developed by DARPA and launched in 2009.

It reached speeds of 5833m\s. If you listened to my advice about using mods, you can use this design and propel it with an engine.

Edited January 8, 2016 by 073198681

[The Optimist]

You can make a jet "plane" by strapping a couple of reaction wheels, a probe core, fuel tanks and RAPIERs to a extremely large solid fuel booster stage that is then jettisoned. Wings create excess drag, and at that point, they don't create enough lift to justify them being there.

 

 

Also, how old is the OP?

Edited January 7, 2016 by The Optimist

[Matuchkin]

14 minutes ago, The Optimist said:

You can make a jet "plane" by strapping a couple of reaction wheels, a probe core, fuel tanks and RAPIERs to a extremely large solid fuel booster stage that is then jettisoned. Wings create excess drag, and at that point, they don't create enough lift to justify them being there.

So you just create a horizontal rocket with a twr of like 30?

1. That's obviously cheating, and is not the point of this challenge (the OP challenged himself to do something not done before. With those kinds of rockets, that is not an achievement).

2. It isn't even a "plane". In fact, it can't even be described as "plane (extreme sarcasm)" or "TECHNICAL BUT NOT QUITE CONSIDERED A PLANE", because it isn't a plane. It's a rocket, and rockets are easy.

Not trying to be rude, sarcastic, or insulting. Sorry for any mis-phrasing.

Edited January 7, 2016 by 073198681

[The Optimist]

17 minutes ago, 073198681 said:

So you just create a horizontal rocket with a twr of like 30?

1. That's obviously cheating, and is not the point of this challenge (the OP challenged himself to do something not done before. With those kinds of rockets, that is not an achievement).

2. It isn't even a "plane". In fact, it can't even be described as "plane (extreme sarcasm)" or "TECHNICAL BUT NOT QUITE CONSIDERED A PLANE", because it isn't a plane. It's a rocket, and rockets are easy.

Not trying to be rude, sarcastic, or insulting. Sorry for any mis-phrasing.

1. It's rocket BOOSTED. The non-jet engines are jettisoned before takeoff, and the jets take over after that. To avoid the new-fangled and wholly unnecessary "wings" that you kids these days seem to use all the time (/sarcasm)

2. MK2 parts produce lift. All parts do at a certain velocity, but Mk2 parts especially. So, according to dictionaries, it counts as an aircraft since it flies by means of aerodynamic forces. That may have not been clear in the original post.

Edited January 7, 2016 by The Optimist

[Matuchkin]

1 minute ago, The Optimist said:

1. It's rocket BOOSTED. The non-jet engines are jettisoned before takeoff, and the jets take over after that.

2. MK2 parts produce lift. All parts do at a certain velocity, but Mk2 parts especially. So, according to dictionaries, it counts as an aircraft since it flies by means of aerodynamic forces. That may have not been clear in the original post.

Oh, okay. Sorry, I didn't see the mk2 part of that comment.

[Heckspress]

On 1/1/2016 at 11:54 PM, Grenartia said:

[...some part of me wants to make the Kessel Run an actual thing here]

Maybe do a run around the solar system, making an orbital encounter (Not necessarily an orbit, and DEFINITELY not landing) with every celestial body in the system, then going back to Kerbin. The Sun/Sol doesn't count because when going interplanetary, you're orbiting the sun.

[Grenartia]

23 hours ago, 073198681 said:

Some nice links for assistance:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypersonic_speed#Classification_of_Mach_regimes

Photo of the "Aurora" Hypersoar. Top secret until a few years ago, I think. Notice the curvature, wedge shape and stubby flying wing design that starts to take place in Hypersonic aircraft.

As well as that, here's a photo of the Waverider X-51A. Notice that, at those speeds, aircraft start taking the shape of missiles.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_X-51#/media/File:X-51A_Waverider.jpg

And that's just at hypersonic speeds. Your planes are currently in that regime, between 1710-3415m/s.

You are trying to go at what is classified as "high-hypersonic", from 3,415-8,465m/s. I quote wikipedia:

"Thermal control becomes a dominant design consideration. Structure must either be designed to operate hot, or be protected by special silicate tiles or similar. Chemically reacting flow can also cause corrosion of the vehicle's skin, with free-atomic oxygen featuring in very high-speed flows. Hypersonic designs are often forced into blunt configurations because of the aerodynamic heating rising with a reduced radius of curvature." -"Hypersonic Speed." Wikipedia. Wikimedia Foundation, n.d. Web. 06 Jan. 2016.

At these speeds, thermal shielding is a main concern, as is the corrosion of the aircraft itself. You, as a matter of fact, are trying to go past 6000m/s, close to the Ultrasonic regime. Aircraft start looking like sharp wedges.

At this point, past 8,465m/s, the only way to get around the trouble is by building a reentry capsule with an engine at one end. A powerful rocket engine. To go at those speeds under the stratosphere is pure insanity; expect to melt.

Keep in mind that you are going close to the ultrasonic regime, on a planet in which objects heat up even more with speed. Read the wikipedia article, heed my advice. At this point, it is better to do it with FAR, because everything I said to you right now will apply to the game with that mod installed. However, I voted that you can fullfill your ambitious challenge, and am here to encourage you. Godspeed.

Looks like the Normandy.

2 hours ago, Heckspress said:

Maybe do a run around the solar system, making an orbital encounter (Not necessarily an orbit, and DEFINITELY not landing) with every celestial body in the system, then going back to Kerbin. The Sun/Sol doesn't count because when going interplanetary, you're orbiting the sun.

Sounds like a challenge that's already been done (and topped). Do we at least get bonus points for doing it in 12 parsecs?

[Matuchkin]

3 minutes ago, Grenartia said:

Looks like the Normandy.

What, the hypersoar?

[John FX]

None of the real world planes that go that fast use what most people would call a jet engine, why restrict yourself to that?

 

[EvermoreAlpaca]

On 1/6/2016 at 1:25 AM, Gojira1000 said:

After melting a few more, I don't think 1700 can be done in stock parts without skipping out of the atmo and then doing a suicidal drive down into the thick. In level flight there's a big fat wall somewhere around 1690-95. I think we have found the Drag Constant. *sticks a flag in it*

Check out my photo on the previous page =0

Edit:

https://embed.gyazo.com/963c7a111a058335e806c331f74cb0b5.png

Edited January 8, 2016 by EvermoreAlpaca

[Nefrums]

2 hours ago, EvermoreAlpaca said:

Check out my photo on the previous page =0

Edit:

https://embed.gyazo.com/963c7a111a058335e806c331f74cb0b5.png

But that is on Laythe right?   Is that not against the rules?

 

[Jimbodiah]

I think around 4K is the max, after that you explode. Tried it a few times with reentries after getting killed a few times coming in at around 9000m/s

[MarvinKitFox]

19 hours ago, 073198681 said:

 It's a rocket, and rockets are easy.

 

Ok, use a rocket.

Now achieve the 6000m/s level flight in the atmosphere that the OP desires.

 

Hint:

You will need a 3.7 TWR engine burning straight up into space, just to keep you at a constant altitude.

 

6000m/s is ***way*** over orbital speed.

Its even way over escape velocity from Kerbin!

[Nefrums]

Well the highest speed possible with only jets apears to be the same in 1.0.5 as it was in previous versions.

Rapiers sill flame out at at ~1751 m/s

Easily verified by just adding MOAR BOOOOOSTERSS!!

 

 

[Matuchkin]

I think that, to get somewhere close to 6000m/s we won't need a rocket. We'll need more of a wedge-shaped plane. The HTV 2 managed to get 5833m/s, but that was gliding from Earth orbit, where the orbital speed is 7.2km/s.

I guess, then, that I will create a flat, wedge-shaped plane like the HTV2, deorbit it from minmus orbit, give it a looooooooong boost before reentry, then dip into Kerbin's lower atmosphere to do this challenge.

I can't however, post anything here. That is because I'm not spending my time uninstalling and reinstalling RO, so I'm just giving suggestions.

[EvermoreAlpaca]

5 hours ago, Nefrums said:

But that is on Laythe right?   Is that not against the rules?

 

No it is on Kerbin.  I like the nose cone, is that a inline fairing attached to a heat shield?

Edited January 8, 2016 by EvermoreAlpaca

[He_162]

It is not impossible.

 

http://i.imgur.com/sA65Msd.png?1