WW2 BAD-T 2 - BDA AI Dogfight Tournament [SEMIFINALS]

[tetryds]

@DoctorDavinci it was actually @SuicidalInsanity who made the arenas, they do indeed look awesome.

 

@BahamutoD that is really cool!
Would it be possible to feed this secondary target with the vessel that is attacking/being attacked by the AI?
Since we have 2x2 battles they can change with time, I plan to record with not GUI, and as I don't have time to edit the videos it would be handy to have it to be automatic or on hotkeys.
Same applies to vessel switch mod, would be neat if the options of the mod were available via action groups.
I would be fine with completelly replacing the functionality of [] for switching between vessels only when using VesselSwitch.

[BahamutoD]

I wasn't sure how to get it to get information from BDArmory without creating a hard dependency, so I'll have to do a bit of research.

For vessel switcher, you can use pgup and pgdn for switching. The window has to be open, but it still works if the UI is hidden.

[DoctorDavinci]

Well then kudos to SuicidalInsanity, great locations

[tetryds]

Thanks, I totally forgot that, will be super handy!
I would be ok with a version that has a hard dependency just for challenges, if there was no easier way to do it.

[ferram4]

@tetryds: I'm not surprised there weren't any derpcannon planes, simply because testing the larger-than-20mm cannons out showed that a lot of them weren't worth it.

The Vya 23mm is probably the best out of the ones there.  It's got a decent RoF and excellent muzzle velocity and dispersion, so it's a very good cannon to use.  I started with it before switching to the Hispanos for slightly less risk of overheat, slightly better dispersion and better RoF.

The Mk 108 30mm is good if you can get in close, but its RoF is lacking compared to the other cannons and the low muzzle velocity (combined with the points system that limits how many you can have severely) means that even in close it's very easy for the plane to miss with it.

The Vickers 40mm has the same problems as the 108 but worse.  The even lower RoF and comparable muzzle velocity means that it's very unlikely to hit anything, you really can't carry any other weapons and still have a powerful enough engine, and now the gun is adding substantial mass to the plane design.  If this were instead a NS-37 or NS-45 it would probably be viable with the higher RoF and muzzle velocity, but I still wonder.  I was testing a light fighter with a Vickers at one point before I just abandoned the idea since the fighter got more kills with 2x Breda 7mm.

The 75mm Panzer Quacker derpcannon is just too cumbersome and its RoF is abysmal.  The muzzle velocity is good, but the unfortunate mass of the gun and mass of the ammo makes it just completely useless.  I mean, I'd love to have seen a Hs 129 dogfighting in this, but the lack of other armament or underpowered engines just gets in the way.

[DoctorDavinci]

I was just using the new camera tools and rekeyed it to pgup and pgdn, it worked brilliantly configured like that in combination with vessel switcher

[Van Disaster]

The 57mm-armed Mosquito got a few A-A kills, but I suspect a mad disparity in pilot skills there ( given any yaw at firing would jam the gun ). I did actually try & knock up a twin with a pair of Vickers but the fire-rate is unworkable - and even when it *did* score a hit ( just the one! ), it apparently did no damage at all despite a huge explosion cloud. I had a fair bit of success with the 108s but I was going to end up with the Oerliken also if I'd managed to sort something in time.

Spoiler

 

 

Edited March 25, 2016 by Van Disaster

[KamikazeF0X]

Quote

Haha, yeah, I am even surprised we managed to get two flying wings in there.
I'm putting three prototypes together now, but will need approval before I throw them into the competition, they are not really meant to win, but definitely not dummies.

I also realized that everybody was kinda forced to use the inline cockpit or an open cockpit, I will try to provide a wider variety of cockpits next time, with better weight values than the inline one.

Another thing is the weapons used, a large variety of combinations is present, I am glad that there was at least one airplane with 7mms only 

But I am sad that there was no 40mm derpcannon, I will have to make one myself.

I didn't use the non-inline cockpit because it's heavier ! and you can't look behind you
Maybe for the WWII BAD-T III there is going to have customs cockpits

@tetryds If you want one other original prototype, You can take my old flying wing design !

Spoiler

https://kerbalx.com/KamikazeF0X/WWII-White-Tip

Pros : Cool looking, Huge Lift, Beat my older plane
Cons : YAW ! Didn't beat the Dummy (To shy to shoot ^^), and yaw control

 

[tetryds]

@KamikazeF0X I was thinking about something a bit more clever:

 

@Van Disaster tried turning off barrage mode? They will alternate, doubling the fire rate.

[Van Disaster]

Yeah, I tried either way - either need to be a godly shot or shooting something resembling a heavy bomber. Did get the pilot to get another hit in & blew the tail off a target, but that was a seriously lucky shot. Still, if someone can make that gun work reliably they deserve a bonus prize I think!

[KamikazeF0X]

49 minutes ago, tetryds said:

@KamikazeF0X I was thinking about something a bit more clever

Mmmh, Why have I not thought about it, something about THAT Clever ? ^^
 

Spoiler

It needs some little tweaks ^^
Link :
https://kerbalx.com/KamikazeF0X/WWII---Smurt-Idea

 

Edited March 25, 2016 by KamikazeF0X
Added Kerbal X link for curious people !

[SuicidalInsanity]

Spoiler

I've found the issue not to be the abysmal RoF or the limited ammo, but the incredibly short effective range of the weapons, and if you can get that close, then other loadouts, with lower mass and point costs, would work equally well. I suppose the weapons could be made more effective at range by giving them VT fuzed flak ammo, but that might make them too powerful.

 

[tetryds]

Hmm, flak cannons, sounds extremely overpowered.

Will consider.

Messing around just for the lolz, but this doesn't seem to want to fly on FAR too well (even without armor):

[Wjolcz]

Make a Super Lorin! Except with propellers!

[Wjolcz]

Btw I can send you one of my (Beaufighter-ish) planes that was meant to meet all of the heavy fighter requirements. I built it mainly to test stuff. And it performs really well, though I think the mass would have to be tweaked a bit. Also can come up with some other ones and send them to you if you want.

I also really want to build that super lorin now...

[The Fedora Astronaut]

I need help with keeping things flying with FAR

[DoctorDavinci]

Might I suggest you post your questions in the General Discussion or in the Mod Support sections of the forum

You could also try reading through the FAR Fighter Challenge and the FAR Craft Repository for helpful tips on designing crafts that fly well in FAR

[Van Disaster]

Discussion of craft & how to optimise should go here, a rather hidden secret thread. Questions about how FAR does specific things should go in the main FAR thread.

[BahamutoD]

@tetryds  Try this: https://github.com/BahamutoD/CameraTools/blob/master/bin/Release/CameraTools.dll

It has an extra option for automatically targeting the AI pilot's target.

[tetryds]

Awesome! Will try it.

I will run the first battles this week, despite having a test

[BahamutoD]

Scratch that, use this one: https://github.com/BahamutoD/CameraTools/blob/master/bin/Release/CameraTools.dll

Now it'll automatically reset the camera tool when you switch vessels (also when the active vessel is destroyed).  So all you have to do is use BDA's vessel switcher to switch around, no UI needed.

Here's a short demo video

and

Here's a longer one with the full setup

[Wjolcz]

3 hours ago, BahamutoD said:

Scratch that, use this one: https://github.com/BahamutoD/CameraTools/blob/master/bin/Release/CameraTools.dll

Now it'll automatically reset the camera tool when you switch vessels (also when the active vessel is destroyed).  So all you have to do is use BDA's vessel switcher to switch around, no UI needed.

Here's a short demo video

and

Here's a longer one with the full setup

That will make watching the fights even more enjoyable! Have I already said I consider this challenge to be a kind of a sport? It's like that show with robots fighting (Robot Wars?) except with planes.

[DoctorDavinci]

What he said^^^^^^

yes, it was robot wars iirc .. although the robots didn't have an AI pilot so were not really robots

 

 

Edited March 28, 2016 by DoctorDavinci

[tetryds]

Lol, it's actually better than robot wars, just sit down and watch.

Here are the three bots that will be competing!

Bot Mike, on the Black Dragon:

 

Bot Drew, on the UpperProp:

 

And Bot Richard, on the Hurles:

 

Hope you like it.
Also, don't you dare underestimating these airplanes, regardless of looking/being somewhat silly.
They will be threw on the mix like any normal player, so chances are you may face one of them on your first battle!

Setting up the tournament tree on challonge.com, then I will randomize the players and the battles will start!
I will make sure I will not pick a map that gives great advantage/disvantage to an airplane, for example if the runway is too short for your airplane I will choose another map.
But at first, maps will be sorted randomly

[Van Disaster]

9 hours ago, BahamutoD said:

Scratch that, use this one: https://github.com/BahamutoD/CameraTools/blob/master/bin/Release/CameraTools.dll

Now it'll automatically reset the camera tool when you switch vessels (also when the active vessel is destroyed).  So all you have to do is use BDA's vessel switcher to switch around, no UI needed.

This is also pretty handy for figuring out when the AI is confused vs something else ( like bad settings or craft design ) - can I suggest either hardcoding or adding a slider to set how abruptly the camera changes target when the AI pilot does? it can be a little jarring. Awesome work though