Maritime Pack & Submarine Pack 2.0 Dev Page

[BT Industries]

10 hours ago, Wrath_IX said:

I know I have no room to complain or demand since you are reviving one of my favorite mods... But still really hope Submarine Parts show up in the new version soon

So do I.

If anyone has the files for the old submarine parts lying around please pm me!!!

[Wrath_IX]

On 6/1/2016 at 7:35 PM, BT Industries said:

So do I.

If anyone has the files for the old submarine parts lying around please pm me!!!

I have some but not all of the files. I have the water tank bits, and the compressor/decompressor's but not the actual sub engines or hull parts for submarines

I can provide those if you would like.

However I think the YouTuber "The Beardy Penguin" has used those sub parts in he war series with some of his buddies so I would advise you to contact him to get a copy of the files

Edited June 3, 2016 by Wrath_IX
Found old version on my PC

[BT Industries]

7 hours ago, Wrath_IX said:

I have some but not all of the files. I have the water tank bits, and the compressor/decompressor's but not the actual sub engines or hull parts for submarines

I can provide those if you would like.

Yes please, might as well work with what I've got.

7 hours ago, Wrath_IX said:

However I think the YouTuber "The Beardy Penguin" has used those sub parts in he war series with some of his buddies so I would advise you to contact him to get a copy of the files

Thanks for that, I'll contact him and hopefully we are all good to go with the sub.

[Wrath_IX]

17 hours ago, BT Industries said:

Yes please, might as well work with what I've got.

Thanks for that, I'll contact him and hopefully we are all good to go with the sub.

ok I just got a hold of him he has uploaded a zip file of his gamedata folder for his 1.0.5 version of the game which has the maritime pack including the sub parts.

here is the link for where you can get it.

http://www.This website cannot be used on these forums/download/q7450t8634tb6cp/GameData.zip

Hopefully that should speed things along

[BT Industries]

4 hours ago, Wrath_IX said:

ok I just got a hold of him he has uploaded a zip file of his gamedata folder for his 1.0.5 version of the game which has the maritime pack including the sub parts.

here is the link for where you can get it.

http://www.This website cannot be used on these forums/download/q7450t8634tb6cp/GameData.zip

Hopefully that should speed things along

Thanks a lot, this is a great help 

[Guest]

Hello all.  I'd like to apologize for not having the time to do as much work on this lately.  I will be back to work around the 20th.

[BT Industries]

Fair enough...

Except me to be back around about the same time.

(If only this were in my job)

Edited June 5, 2016 by BT Industries

[Reaper_Works]

On 6/4/2016 at 1:49 PM, BT Industries said:

Yes please, might as well work with what I've got.

Thanks for that, I'll contact him and hopefully we are all good to go with the sub.

kottabos gaming did a mod spotlight, ask him perhaps.

[BT Industries]

13 hours ago, Reaper_Works said:

kottabos gaming did a mod spotlight, ask him perhaps.

Thanks for the heads up

(Yay a fellow aussie)

[Fengist]

Hi Ben, and everyone else,

Yea, surprise, it's really me.  Ben, I sent you a PM months ago after you told me the thumb drive didn't arrive. Since I didn't hear back from that PM I can only assume that either I goofed it up or, it got lost somewhere along the way (like the thumb drive).  For a while, I couldn't log into the forums, my password didn't work and then... real life intervened.  On top of that, my ISP decided to upgrade their hardware.  You'd think they'd be nice and move all my files to the new server.  Ummm no.  37 gigs of data and I live in the middle of a corn field.  Every screenshot I ever took of the game and linked to the forums was on that server.  Since It takes me an hour and a half just to upload 500k I never got the time to move all my files.  And my ISP has a 50 gig a month bandwidth limit.  Once I didn't hear back from you, those things and lots of others took priority. I pretty much decided that Maritime Pack was a closed issue.

But, I haven't had a chance to stop thinking about this accursed mod.  It's been 10? months since I stopped working on it and people WILL NOT LEAVE ME ALONE.  I wasn't able to take the mod off Curse so it's been up there in a half-working state and it's still getting 500 downloads a month.  Yes, it's still in the top KSP mod list (boggle).  And every time someone downloads it, finds out it doesn't work, and is persistent, they go hunt me down and send me blasphemous e-mails and the occasional death threat.  What I get for not being hard to find.  But I got some nasties here on the forums so that's nothing new.

So, with people refusing to let this mod die, and me not hearing back from you, a couple of weeks ago I fired up KSP for the first time in yea... 10 months... and the Maritime Pack was of course staring me in the face. So, for the past couple weeks I've been... tinkering with it and cleaning it up for 1.1 with the expectation of re-releasing it.  And then... just moments ago I found this tread while trying to dig up some old code chunks I posted on the forums way back when.

So, now I'm in a bit of a pickle it would seem.  You've been carrying the torch for the past 8 or so months and I first need to say thank you.  But it appears, you've got several guys here working on it,  you've been trying to dig up the old files for the sub pack it would seem, trying to resurrect this beast.  And then suddenly, I come out of the woodwork like a louse with the entire package pretty much ready to upload.

So here's the big question.  I know you have other mods you're working on Ben and that taking over MP was something you did for the community (and me).  How utterly [p.o.ed at me would you be if I stepped back into the ring?

And before you answer, yea, I'm serious. Here's a video I put together today of it working in 1.1 to re-introduce it.  I had just started the upload when I found this thread:

 

And here's some old screenshots I uploaded earlier today as well.

 

Edited June 20, 2016 by Fengist

[JTpopcorn]

48 minutes ago, Fengist said:

 

YESS, can't wait!

MOAR BOATS!

(um, any chance or more carrier bits? or were they fixes to make it compatible with 1.1)

and wow, 10 months...it's nice to have you back.

[Fengist]

28 minutes ago, JTpopcorn said:

YESS, can't wait!

MOAR BOATS!

(um, any chance or more carrier bits? or were they fixes to make it compatible with 1.1)

and wow, 10 months...it's nice to have you back.

Thanks JT.  I've pretty much decided that this time I'm not going off the deep end.  When I started learning modding I was running several popular challenges (Claw has thankfully kept one alive), putting tutorials together (walkers), doing challenges, posting long rambling threads about my own circumnavigation by ground, trying to think up new challenges and then... Maritime hit pay dirt and I was still trying to keep up with all the other things I was doing in KSP.  The other problem was, I was running on a 10 year old 3ghz AMD with 8 gigs of ram, a 32 bit OS and a 1024x768 monitor and trying to do 3d modelling and run KSP.

Finances improved slightly since then. Now I"m on a 64bit OS, 32 gigs of ram, 8 core 4ghz, dual 22 inch wide screens and an SSD... so now, computer wise, I'm much, much better off that I was back then.

To answer your question though... for now, no.  MP got royally screwed with that update, which I'll save for a later post, and it's taken a lot of tinkering to get everything working again and working as intended.  Some parts, like the dinghy, were just unsalvageable (it sinks like a rock even after I completely reworked the model) and will get dropped from the next pack.  So that means, I haven't had time to create anything new.  

However, I did sit down and create a video tutorial (yea, with me speaking) on how to correctly build a catamaran.  The catamaran allowed me to create ships twice the size of the Clipper with only 3 parts.  The plan once upon a time was to create a CVL (light vs the current escort) using that same theory.  4 parts and I can create a deck, bow, stern and bridge.  No, don't expect arresting gear or elevators and don't expect the CVL to be the next priority.  Getting the sub pack tweaked and ready is next order of business.  But, if you watched the video above you'll see me... erm... try to land on a CVE wishing for something bigger.

But before I do anything else... I want to hear what Ben has to say.  He's been keeping this flame going and I feel like I'd be stepping on his toes if I just waltzed back in. 

Edited June 20, 2016 by Fengist

[BT Industries]

1 hour ago, Fengist said:

So here's the big question.  I know you have other mods you're working on Ben and that taking over MP was something you did for the community (and me).  How utterly [p.o.ed at me would you be if I stepped back into the ring?

And before you answer, yea, I'm serious. Here's a video I put together today of it working in 1.1 to re-introduce it.  I had just started the upload when I found this thread

Wow!!!

This is the last thing I ever expected to happen...

... and yes your in.

I'll make a modified licence that states that we both are the owners of the content.

As you know I pretty much started learning about KSP modding to be able to revise this mod, my skills are pretty low to be fair so all help is welcome.

PM me your Github Username (The project now lives there) so I can add you to the team (If you have one).

Oh and your email so if you want to join a group chat we have going.

Your addition to the team is great news and Ill be happy to resign to Project Manager and Admin.

18 minutes ago, JTpopcorn said:

YESS, can't wait!

MOAR BOATS!

(um, any chance or more carrier bits? or were they fixes to make it compatible with 1.1)

and wow, 10 months...it's nice to have you back.

Agreed.

...

On another note I have no wifi at my new house as of now and probably not for the next four weeks, so you shall not be hearing from me much (currently at an internet cafe).

[Fengist]

Glad you're an Aussie Ben.  Had you been an American like me, you probably would have made vile threats while loading your assault rifle.

I never had a Github account, and to be honest I wouldn't know how to operate one if I did.  It took me months to figure out where the download button is and the only fork I'm comfortable with is an eating utensil.

As for an e-mail... that I do have but.  I have a cron job that runs on my server every hour and sends me an e-mail when it does run.  Ummmm... I've seen upwards of 160 hours of e-mails come in all at once... if that tells you how often I check it most days.

I can do Skype tho if that helps   And to be honest, that's probably the best way to contact me these days, short of a cell phone (which I'm also in the habit of not answering).

As for manager, I don't know that I'd have time or the inclination for such.  You've already set up a team and have started work on things.  If you're comfortable managing them, have at it.  Here's basically where I see myself being comfortable:

I like managing the release thread, this one is yours and a good place to discuss development.  Manage it as you see fit and I'll chime in when I have something to say.  I have no desire to dig up the old thread.  I'd prefer to start a new one for the release.

As for parts, models and such.  There are certain things I do want to work on, like the CVL and the Submarine.  Since I've got the pack pretty much working as is (I need to tweak some sub code), as much as it would aggravate me were I on your end, I guess there's really no need for you guys to work on current parts unless you feel they're lacking in some respect.  The good news is, not working on existing parts would free up you and your modeler to work on new parts.  What I can do there is if, for example, you want to create some new deck to snap onto the Clipper, I'd have no problem at all with sending you the .obj files of the models so you'd have the correct dimensions to work with.  I do have gobs of ideas for new parts and stuff if you need some inspiration.

And let me give you an example of where I was once headed and even had someone show me some rough models before they vanished:

Yep, that's an old test of a flying sub I did.  I had a modder who was working on some parts for one.  The sub has a cargo hold and the plan was to create either a flying sub that docked under the main sub or inside the cargo hold.

As you can see, the mechanics of it works, I just needed a model.

As for the code: I stated in the old thread I am NOT a C# coder. Pascal and PHP are the languages I know best.  When it comes to C#, I grab a hammer and keep beating on the code till it works.  I have no problem at ALL with passing my code along to your coder, assuming your coder is at least aware of C#'s existence which is a far cry above my skills.  ATM, I'm working on getting engines (both Squad and Firespitter) to shut down when they're out of the water and be available to restart when back in the water (one of my old fans liked to make paddlewheelers fly.  While I"m all for having fun with mods, that just seemed sacrilegious to me.).  That and I'm trying desperately to find a better way to balance the sub's ballast (it's nightmarish).  Once I get those two cleared away and all the junk cleaned out of the code, I'd actually prefer that someone else look it over, clean it up and make it available.

So basically, anything you guys need (short of me uploading all 5 gigs) I'll be happy to pass it along.

As for some of the ideas you guys have thought about:

I saw where at one time you were thinking about missile tubes for the sub.  To be honest, I already have the part.  It's a short part with 2 tubes designed to be stacked in series to make 2 rows of tubes with animated opening covers.  Here's the problem.  In order to get the sub to work it uses Firespitter's buoyancy code.  That means the buoyancy of each part is very adjustable.  (Why Firespitter?  In the video you see a 500 ton ship floating.  The sub, with ballast, is about 1/10 that weight. If a 500 ton ship won't sink in Kerbin's water, I had to cheat physics.) Any STOCK part added to the sub creates a spot of massive buoyancy.  While the sub can handle a few small stock parts on it, when you get to building entire missiles, the sub simply won't sink.  As I understand it, cargo bays have the ability to place an invisible box around the cargo inside them so the drag isn't calculated into the craft's drag.  The only solution I see (as long as the sub uses Firespitter's buoyancy) is to do something similar.  Create an invisible box on a part and anything inside that box is somehow excluded from creating buoyancy.  The other idea I had there was to make the tubes a partmodule and then, check for all parts attached to x node and kill the buoyancy of all those parts.  I THINK it can be done I just never got around to investigating it further.

One of the BIG plans I had was sailing.  Real sailing.

That's something I created from the Steampunk mod.  It works but the modder cheated.  The sails are solar panels.  Instead of generating electricity when the sun hits them, they produce thrust.  That and they don't turn.  So, you always have to sail with the sun at your back.

One thing I was working on was creating changing global wind patterns and sails that you had to manage based on prevailing wind conditions.  I was in the code testing phase of that with a few simple models.

And I have models I worked on for plane floats with retractable landing gear (one of the last things I was working on. I remember the gear flying out the bottom of the float and out the SPH front door).

I have a model for a tugboat bow that uses the Klaw partmodule... But, every time I try to release the Klaw, the part floats away...  like a balloon... yea, I never figured that one out.

I have models for shipping containers but trying to get them loaded on a boat in a stacked fashion using Infernal Robotics... well, that didn't go well.

And then there was the hydrofoil, the MASSIVE cargo ship I created with Freeship, the modular sail boat, the 15 meter hulls, the V hulls... oh... the list of crap I tried and experimented with goes on... and on...

One thing this mod could REALLY benefit from is someone who knows which end of an IVA is up.  I created the one for the cargo ship and it took weeks for the bruises on my forehead to heal (facedesking) and every time I even think about making another IVA my wife asks if she should call the ambulance now, or later.

I do have one request but first let me explain why...  back long ago, before I knew which end was up on a 3D modeling program, I created the first set of hulls and released them.  The tris count was... well almost single digits... and the textures looked like something created in crayon.  I knew this when I released them and was more or less looking to see if there was an interest in boats.  Needless to say I was overwhelmed.  The big request then was for better models and better textures.  So, I went to work.  I'm not a perfectionist but I'm a former US Marine.  One of the things I was told over and over and over again was... 'pay attention to details'

My models aren't perfect, I know this.  But I do strive to the best level of perfection I can create.  There are much better texture and model people than me.  And, as I discovered, much worse.  At one point, one of my fans was adamant about textures.  So much so that he created his own and sent them to me.  Boy, I tried to be polite as I could but in all honesty, they were pretty bad.  Worse, in my opinion, that my first attempts at texturing.

Again, I'm not a perfectionist but I do have a level of quality that I consider acceptable.  If I can't come up with that quality, I won't release a part until I can.

What I would ask is, before any part go into any 'official' pack, that I have the final say.  And considering the level of my work, that shouldn't be hard to match.  You'll note that I'm somewhat of a minimalist who really likes white things.

 

Edited June 20, 2016 by Fengist

[Stone Blue]

Great to see you back, Fengist!

SemperFi, brother...

[colmo]

Welcome back @Fengist. You'll want to check out the weather simulation dev thread for your sailing.

For leveling the sub, you may want to consult the Hooligan Labs airship mod, which has something similar (and Hooligan Labs did at one time use it to create a sub mod).

@SpannerMonkey(smce) and @Azimech are also working on boat mods fyi.

[Fengist]

8 hours ago, Stone Blue said:

Great to see you back, Fengist!

SemperFi, brother...

Thanks Devil Dog.  Good to be back... I think.

22 minutes ago, colmo said:

Welcome back @Fengist. You'll want to check out the weather simulation dev thread for your sailing.

For leveling the sub, you may want to consult the Hooligan Labs airship mod, which has something similar (and Hooligan Labs did at one time use it to create a sub mod).

@SpannerMonkey(smce) and @Azimech are also working on boat mods fyi.

Thanks Colmo,

I have revisited the weather sim thread and I took a look at the older thread that he got his ideas from.  Here's the problem I have with it.  You can turn the weather on and off.  Now I realize Kerbals are both much more advanced and much more retarded that we lowly humans, but weather modification?

Well, I guess you have to start somewhere.  My idea is a bit different.  Initially it won't have any impact on any part other than sails. What it will have is a global 'database' of various longitudes and latitudes.  In that will be basic wind directions and speeds.  In one spot, the wind may blow from the north.  In another, from the west.  Depending on your current location, that database is consulted and wind conditions at the vessel's location will be calculated.  The database will be randomized a bit so that every install will have unique wind patterns. And, those wind conditions will change over time.  One day, you may find you're in the doldrums an the next day, a full gale.  That's the theory anyway.

As for hooligans, yep, I looked at their mod a long time ago and it was horribly busted. I also have the procedural airships mod which I loved and is also busted.

I have seen one other mod but I'm not sure if it belong to those two guys.  One is more or less a BD armory extension that allows you to create some pretty big combat ships.  One of the things I noted with it, it looks part intensive.  I saw the screenshots where he was building a hull for the carrier... one plate at a time.

One of the things I tried hard to work towards was something that was modular, but didn't require a degree in engineering to build.  InfiniteDice's Boat Parts was an example.  I still talk to him quite often on Skype and his carrier was a monstrosity.  I built one a few times with him and I felt like I needed a huge manual to get it right.

So that mod I have seen.

The other one is the 'Otter' sub by Rover Dude.  I have downloaded and installed it and... well I thought I knew a thing or two about subs and ballast in KSP.  I now know I"m clueless.  The only thing I could get it to do was flip around in circles.  One thing i immediately disliked about his mod is the 'lead' ballast.  Once you dump it, you have no replacement.

I'm guessing his is like mine, a bit more complex that it appears.  One thing I am going to do tho is put out a tutorial explaining how my sub works.  I know I'll be answering that question a lot until I do.

The problem with leveling the sub is Nathan Kell's math.  It's horrible. You have so many 'Center's' of things and none of them are easily calculated.  Center of mass, center of lift, center of buoyancy and those are just the basics (there's lots more).  Finding center of mass is easy.  Finding the center of buoyancy?  Still beyond me.  Basically, with the sub, it's like a giant lever.  Somewhere in the middle is the fulcrum.  At each end I have ballast.  Sounds easy right?  Well, the fulcrum changes as you move the ballast around and be damned if I can figure out where it is.  It's not Center of Mass.  So, I have to keep tossing ballast back and forth and checking the altitude of the parts on each end and the dive angle to see if it's close to level.  Essentially I'm moving rocks back and forth on the lever hoping to guess the balance.  It's painfully slow as it doesn't stop till it gets close and thanks to the viscosity of Kerbin water, it's even slower.

Anyway, I've went ahead and uploaded the 1.1 working version to Curse (I won't fall into that kerbalstuff trap again) and I've started a new release thread.  I also got Red Iron Crown to point the old thread (which was locked) to the new one.

You can find it here:

I've looked over some of the changes Ben has made and some I fully agree with, and some I'm not so sure about.  So, I went ahead and put the current pack out so people have something that at least works until Ben and I can sit down and discuss what changes need to be made.

Edited June 20, 2016 by Fengist

[Azimech]

Will be a long time before I continue developing Real Ships and WW2 Warships. There are still some unholy bugs in 1.1.2 and I don't believe they will be solved in 1.1.3.

[Fengist]

7 minutes ago, Azimech said:

Will be a long time before I continue developing Real Ships and WW2 Warships. There are still some unholy bugs in 1.1.2 and I don't believe they will be solved in 1.1.3.

LoL... I'm sure you're aware of this but KSP will NEVER be free of 'unholy' bugs.  Example? I had a pretty decent underwater camera working for the sub. Nathan Kell decided, along with his buoyancy 'improvements' that he was going to fix the old KSP camera to work underwater.  Well, that bug fix led to a visual nightmare. First, it completely killed the underwater camera I worked months on and then... when the stars come out... Kerbin becomes transparent.  I wish I were joking but if you're underwater when the stars 'pop' into existence, you can see right through the planet.

So, I'm going back to an old theory.  One of the reasons I started the sub project was to 'embarrass' Squad into fixing water and subsurface.  I got my wish.  It ended up more SCREWED that it was before.  So now, I'm going to embarrass them again into fixing what they screwed.

I looked at your pack and yours is the one with all the plates.  While the end results look good, I'm not sure I'd have the patience to build one.  But don't give up because of bugs.  They will never go away and if you don't keep poking them in the ribs, they won't have a reason to fix them.

 

[Deimos Rast]

@Fengist

Damn son, you come back swinging hard....

[Fengist]

6 hours ago, Deimos Rast said:

@Fengist

Damn son, you come back swinging hard....

You won't believe how hard.  Just goofing off today, I THINK, using the same techniques with my sub, I've stumbled on way to turn any STOCK vessel into a submarine nicely working submarine.  I'm putting together the .dll and hacking together some MK2 parts right now and I'll post a WIP and see if I can't get some beta testers to confirm what I suspect.

[BT Industries]

...

I will contact you regarding Skype when I get wifi at my new house.

I extremely recommend getting a GitHub Account as it makes team work o-so-much easier.

I think the best thing that could be done for this mod is to scrap the Firespitter buoyancy and work with the stock one instead of against it. @CliftonM is working on some part modules similar to those made by Roverdude. These combined with a balancing system like the updated Hooligans Airships mod would be great!

Cant wait to get back into things when I get internet access.

 

Just now, Fengist said:

I've stumbled on way to turn any STOCK vessel into a submarine nicely working submarine. 

This sounds amazing

[Fengist]

To my knowlege, only the Sub uses the FS Buoyancy.  There are some parts that may use them in Maritime but not many.  Most hull parts already have FS Buoyancy taken out.  Though I'll add in the sub pack to the maritime pack for distribution, it never really was a part of the pack.  I only released it as a separate entity in the past.  The sub pack does use some parts from the MP, like the spotlight (which I think does have FS Buoyancy on it) but that's not a big enough part to worry about.

AFAIK, all the boats float on stock physics.

Infinite Dice, once upon a time, was working on his own version of buoyancy.  It was a pretty complex beast that involved making flotation points  all around the ship and then applying thrust to those points in order to keep balanced.  But, he never finished it and I never got a copy of the code.

The problem with stock buoyancy now is drag.  In order to keep ships from bobbing around like corks, I had to really up the mass.  But, that had a side effect of really slowing them down.  Once upon a time I was essentially flying on water with them.  Now, it's like they're dragging anchors.

[BT Industries]

Hmm... this is not a problem I have come across.

What we need is FAR but for water. 

Help please @ferram4!!!

Other than that I think the stock cargo system will have to do.

[Fengist]

14 minutes ago, BT Industries said:

Hmm... this is not a problem I have come across.

What we need is FAR but for water. 

Help please @ferram4!!!

Other than that I think the stock cargo system will have to do.

Oh no, if Ferram reads this, fine. I'm till torqued at him.  One of the issues I had when I started MP was that EVERYONE wanted me to make MP compatible with his better buoyancy.  When I ran into problems, I contacted him.  The response I got was basically, if it's not working now, I'm not going to make it work.

So here's my theory.  Ferram created FAR because he couldn't fly in stock physics.  Then, he couldn't fly in FAR and kept crashing into the ocean.  Rather than learn how to fly, he creates an entire mod so that he can ditch his planes in the water without smashing them to bits.  Now whether this... modification is suitable for boats are not is inconsequential.  He can't fly in FAR so he changes the physics of water and that's that.

You'll pardon me, but when you create a mod like FAR that's so popular that you can change the REST of the laws of physics and either everyone bends to your will or they can get screwed... 

Well, I'll put it this way.  When you look at the imgur album I posted earlier, look at the CVE and the sub-title I gave it.

That explains why I built it.  So he'd have a FREAKING PLACE TO LAND OTHER THAN WATER.

Yea, I'm still torqued over that.

Edited June 21, 2016 by Fengist