Devnote Tuesday: JEEEEEENKINS [the build server]!

[basic.syntax]

The pre-release time is also meant to give modders a chance to update their stuff, so if you are dependent on lots of mods, you might have less headaches waiting for the official v1.1 release.

[regex]

It'd be great if we could have conversations on these forums without resorting to epithets such as "these people" or exclaiming hatred for them.

[AfailingHORSE]

Well at least the server room didnt catch fire

[ktmemp]

11 hours ago, richfiles said:

The only problem i see is your impatience. Squad has added so much to the game in the last 2.5 years... You're just blind to all they've added, and all the improvements. As for your complaining about bug fixes... They're constantly adding and improving. New parts and features have been added, new tools, new biomes and physics... You are literally ignoring every major upgrade they've done in recent history, cause poor self-entitled you didn't get the upgrade you specifically wanted... Furthermore, they are upgrading to a new version of the game engine. The performance improvements and technical improvements, and the memory improvements (from being 64 bit native) will be HUGE!!! An upgrade like that does take much more time and effort than a regular upgrade. If you are not capable of understanding that, then too bad. We who have a clue, get it, and we are fine with the time it takes to make this happen! If that's too much to understand, then by all means... Please play battlefield and quit lying to yourself. Squad have added so many new parts, features, tools, etc... You just pretend they didn't, so you an complain about one of the biggest upgrades they've ever done to KSP!

I'll take their work on the Unity 5 upgrade, and all they've done on 1.1 any day over any part or feature upgrade! 1.1's upgrades are too important to put off, or get lazy over!

If I rolled my eyes as hard as I feel like... I'd be seeing my own brain. 

So I never write again and dont expect new things sorry.Never again.Sorry

[regex]

9 minutes ago, ktmemp said:

So I never write again and dont expect new things sorry.Never again.Sorry

No, just find a nicer, gentler way of expressing your discontent.  I totally get where you're coming from but you have to understand that Squad has historically been a very small development house; only recently have they beefed up their developer numbers.

Alternatively, be prepared, very prepared, to defend your argument well when you toss that grenade.

[Perry Apsis]

7 hours ago, Kuansenhama said:

I keep pressing 'period' but it isn't making 1.1 come any faster.

Ah well, changing the whole physics engine is going to mean I can load out this game with even more mods. Take yer time with this one, Squad, make it worth the wait.

No wonder the darned thing's delayed. They all stop working every time you hit the zoom. You need to do alt-period.

[Hevak]

Lmao some of the posts in this thread are so funny, but alas game developers can never win no matter what they do.

you should see so many of the forums of others games I play with continual updates that have posts such as this. " you need to stop adding all new content and just focus on fixing all the bugs." Or " stop adding new content until you fix your damn game, and fix your game engine you suck." 

Squad as undertaken a huge project in completely updating the game engine to make it better and fix many old issues as a result. They have also added a bit of new content as well at the same time. Also there are quite a few pieces of new content that were shelved until after 1.1 so they could focus on the unity update and get it out faster.

i honestly can't remember any game I've played in the past that has rewritten their whole game to a new or updated game engine, it rarely ever happens from my experience.

sqaud is doing great work and I for one am happy for all they have done or will do with 1.1 update and am eagerly awaiting it as well as the new stuff that was teased and coming soon but postponed to get 1.1 out sooner. 

Edited March 24, 2016 by Hevak

[Raptor9]

20 hours ago, ktmemp said:

Actually without mods this game like beta(%25 game %75 mods).Noone want to play this game without mods.

Really?  I've been playing career saves without parts mods for over 2 years, and I love it.  And judging from a lot of the traffic on KerbalX, I would venture a guess to say that there are plenty of people out there that play without mods as well.  At the very least, your statement is grossly inaccurate.

Edited March 24, 2016 by Raptor9
typo

[Tourist]

11 hours ago, daltonater said:

Kind of off topic here, but I have to ask: Why no poetry? Seeing the dev teams issues in poetry form gave a nice comedic twist to the dev notes.

Possibly Squad may be a bit busy, or, in Dr Turkeys case, unable to keep it clean. 

On the other hand, I think they have handed this important responsibility to the community, who, I might add, have risen to the challenge admirably. I gotta say, I love this poetry thing, I hope the community keeps it going (without my help, I'm terrible at it). I just love the idea that this is forum known for rocketry, science, gaming..... and poetry.  

[regex]

50 minutes ago, Hevak said:

you should see so many of the forums of others games I play with continual updates that have posts such as this. " you need to stop adding all new content and just focus on fixing all the bugs." Or " stop adding new content until you fix your damn game, and fix your game engine you suck."

The general sentiment around here for quite some time was the same, and still is if you're in certain parts of the forums.  

[Tourist]

6 hours ago, regex said:

It'd be great if we could have conversations on these forums without resorting to epithets such as "these people" or exclaiming hatred for them.

Well said.

That phase should never be used unless you have previously identified who "these people" are.... a step the people that use it often forget, or alternatively if you are in a position to gesture to them.

For example:

"Good people of Gotham, these people" (gestures towards caped heroes) "will save us from the Jokers plan"

Or alternatively;

"There are people who wish RSS was stock, these people find it more satisfying."     

[richfiles]

7 hours ago, ktmemp said:

So I never write again and dont expect new things sorry.Never again.Sorry

I think you've missed the point of my post entirely... Squad has constantly been giving us new things, and will continue to do so.
Regarding some of your prior statements:

Quote

1 year long patch but is it worth thats the question. More than 100 new parts, new solar systems, new animations (ım not mention even better graphics) should be added for this long time but I cant see any of that.

M.o.d.s.   Im talking developer side. I know I can get more parts with mods and already using more than 40 mods.

The problem is you shouldnt choose. You bought game dec 2013 since 2.5 year they still fixing bug and this is real problem. I cant be happy they fixing bug (I can ıf game released dec 2015). Ofcouse main priority fixing bug but after waiting like 1 year I have to expect more. If I didnt care I even dont write here uninstall game and play dunno more battlefield but I care. If they care they really do something. We cant even talk about multiplayer and they promise with v.0.24 (2 years ago). They patching game atleast this is good but tooooo slow.

What I was trying to tell you before, is that they have added new parts. They added in the radiators, the goliath and Juno jet engines, and they have made improvements with heating and other things as well. Some of the things you suggest are massively ambitious things. Squad has made their game incredibly open to modding, and there are a great number of very cool planet pack mods, part mods, etc, if you wish to go beyond stock, but you have to also understand that the game was severely limited by it's 32 bit engine. That means it can only access about 4 GB of memory... Adding more parts, more planets, etc... It would fill that memory up even faster. Many of the crashes people see in KSP are actually related to the memory limit being hit. Modders hit that limit more easily than stock players, cause they have added parts and add ons that fill up even more of the limited available memory. If Squad added all those extra things into the game, without first upgrading the engine to Unity 5 (which has 64 bit support), then the stock game would crash as much as heavily modded games. Looking at something like multiplayer... With KSP 32 bit already at it's limit, Squad had no choice but shift priority to updating the engine first. Without first upgrading the engine, stock could not grow. Maybe, after the Unity 5 update, they can come back to looking at multiplayer and other popular, but long awaited features, as a possibility.

The 64 bit Unity 5 engine gives us better performance, so the game runs smoother, can handle ships with more part counts, more ships at once, and provides extended memory access... There is not a desktop or laptop computer you can even buy that reaches the max usable memory of Unity 5 in 64 bit mode. That means, if you have 8 GB, 16 GB, or even 32 GB (like me ), KSP will be able to use any amount of that memory! Whatever you got, KSP 64 bit will be able to use it! That means no more limits to the memory the game uses, and it means we can support more simultaneous mods, as well as more stock parts! I personally want more planets myself, but I am also totally fine installing Kopernicus and adding planet packs. I think I want to add Outer Planets Mod and maybe one more...

Basically, Squad has to balance what they add, vs what the game can handle... 32 bit KSP was already so packed, that it was near bursting at the seams... It crashed a lot, because of memory problems. With 64 bit KSP, those memory problems are gone, and stock can once again grow, if they like. And trust me... Squad like! 

Regarding other planets and such... I don't know if Squad will ever flesh out the far reaches of the Kerbal solar system. I would like Squad to add planets to represent Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto (Pluto forever! ), but Squad is also VERY well aware of the modding community's contributions... I strongly suspect that they don't want to step on anyone's toes. Sure, Squad could make their own Kerbin system analogs of the last 4 plants (Eeyup, I said there are FOUR   lights   planets ), but at what cost? They could certainly make their own, but then what happens to the hard work of the modders who creates mods like OPM? What if Squad integrates OPM into stock. I'd LOVE that! I really would love that... but then what does that say for all the people who have created alternate planet packs? Do they get left out? Do their mods now conflict with the orbits of   OPM   stock?

That's why we have a modding community. Squad lets us choose how much extra we want to add to KSP, and sometimes they incorporate the best of the best extras by hiring mod makers. Just off the top of my head, I recognize the names of Porkjet and Arsonide, people who created excellent mods for space plane parts and extended contracts. Their mods were so good, Squad basically hired them and incorporated their mods into stock. Sometimes they add their own cool stuff. Sometimes they leave it purely to modders. I would not be concerned about it at all.

Squad is still a very small team, and you can't expect them to be able to do things with the same capacity as a big company like Rockstar, EA, or Ubisoft... It takes time and effort to add features, parts and fix bugs, and they have to spread these things out over time.

So I guess, in the end, what I'm saying, is try to see the bigger picture before letting impatience or anger guide your words. You can write and say what you want, but consider first if it's actually warranted. Consider whether what you are saying is cause you have a real observation, or because you are are mad that a particular feature you wanted hasn't been implemented yet.

As I explained, KSP 32 bit (Unity 4) was at it's breaking point. Getting mad that something like multiplayer, or more planets, or more parts that you wanted has been ignored isn't a good argument to say that you cant see any of that being added by Squad. They did add a lot of stuff, but were focused on adding necessary parts (like the radiators, and the largest and smallest jet engines, since there was a big gap in jet technology). Even more so, Squad is focused primarily on improving and fixing the underlying game engine so it can handle the addition of such larger scale improvements, without crashing the game all the time.

One more thing... DO expect new things! That's why Squad has worked for a whole year at making Unity 5 a reality! The improvements well be phenomenal, and it'll open the door to all new possibilities, in the future! 

Edited March 24, 2016 by richfiles
I need to finish building my Mechanical Keyboard, so I can prove my bad typing is 100% ME, and not my current cheap keyboard! XD

[EwingKang]

15 hours ago, Gojira1000 said:

*gets@Claw a piece of cake without baking soda in it*

 

 

15 hours ago, Claw said:

 

And thanks for the cake!

THE CAKE IS A LIEEE!!!At least you still get your baking soda

Sad to hear about the breaking build server, I get the frustration it's like the time an ubuntu update kills my bootloader entirely.....
Still hyped anyway. Keep going SQUAD!

Edited March 24, 2016 by EwingKang
baking soda

[scharlesc]

richfiles is right, excellent write up and I think you nailed it. I give Squad enormous credit with what they have done here. I don't play many computer games (use to play Eve but got bored by it and the way you can lose ships to AH's with no recourse) but Kerbal is by far one of the best games/simulators I have ever seen. It is important to understand how difficult it is to write software like this and what a huge task it is.

Their job must really be difficult with the new engine (Unity 5) converting software over to a new platform is really hard.

Patience is a virtue and we will all be rewarded soon!

[Threadsinger]

10 hours ago, Hevak said:

Lmao some of the posts in this thread are so funny, but alas game developers can never win no matter what they do.

you should see so many of the forums of others games I play with continual updates that have posts such as this. " you need to stop adding all new content and just focus on fixing all the bugs." Or " stop adding new content until you fix your damn game, and fix your game engine you suck." 

Ah, so you too play MechWarrior Online, eh? Talk about a toxic community. "Fix old, not new, but don't forget to add new and get rid of old".

The only thing I want from Squad, now that the game has been released as 1.0 and ostensibly "feature-complete", is that they do not add or subtract anything substantial (game mechanic-wise) from the product I paid for at launch. I appreciate post-launch performance improvements, or the creation and release of DLC to expand the gameplay experience, but I am very weary of ongoing development in games where core game mechanics could change after the finished product has been released. Or where new 'features' are introduced that play havoc with some software-hardware interfaces that worked just fine before. (Looking at you, MWO...) Because that's not what I paid for,

I don't get that feeling with KSP, but since the topic is the feedback of the game owners are current and future developments, I thought I'd toss in my toonie. 

Keep up the good work! 

/... I'd be ok with adding a delta-v calculator in game...

 

[_stilgar_]

11 minutes ago, Threadsinger said:

but I am very weary of ongoing development in games where core game mechanics could change after the finished product has been released.

I see you too have played Crusader Kings 2  What was released in 2012 and what it is now... two completely different games  

But I like it, especially when the changes make the game better. It was nearly impossible to win an independence war in a large empire? They added Factions. You had to occupy entire countries to get one province? They added warscore from battles. It was too easy to win the war just by winning one or two battles and quickly assaulting some castles? They balanced it by adding even more things  

Don't you like new features? If Squad added Multiplayer for example to KSP, I think that would be awesome. I don't even play multiplayer games, but I think it will make it better for single player. Start 2 or 3 instances on the same or different computers and dock those ship while controlling them both at the same time, look at things from two different perspectives, do other interesting things while you are doing those long, boring burns with ions/nukes... 

[Neutrinovore]

Well, first, glad that things are being worked on and developed and stuff and things.  But, I find that there are fewer and fewer things in this thread that I understand, or that I feel are applicable to me in regard to actual improvements to the GAME itself.  Yeah, I get it, you're fixing things about how things work in the background, Unity 5, wheelpocalypse imminent, etc., but I don't really get how what you're talking about will matter TO ME when I eventually update the game to 1.1, or whatever you're going to call it.

Here's what I'M looking for regarding development and improvements to KSP, in the order of their importance, in my opinion:

1. More THINGS on Kerbin.  I mean more objects to interact with on the planet Kerbin itself.  It boggles my mind that the ONLY 'Kerbal-made' structures on the ENTIRE PLANET are still just the KSC and the Island Runway, that's just sad.  We need more places to go, more things to see, and...

2. More things to DO on Kerbin. Well, everywhere, every planet, actually. Same for #1 as well.  Anyway, even if you add more THINGS, there's still really nothing to DO with them.  Yeah, I get it, SCIENCE.  Who cares?  I don't play career mode, I only play Sandbox, so I feel that the least Squad could do is to make the (very few) structures that there are actually DO things, I'm talking about, say, being able to pull up to the Hangar and have the hangar door actually open so that I can pull inside.  Or even just to have there be vehicles and Kerbals moving around the KSC, the way they're depicted to be when one is IN the VAB or the SPH.  But when I launch, where did all those people and vehicles GO?  I feel like I'm the only person on the entire planet in the entire UNIVERSE as soon as I launch a ship or rover or anything.  All I can do is drive or fly around and say 'Yep, those things are sure sitting there.  Not doing anything at all, interesting or otherwise...'

3. More stock parts, and I mean more KINDS of parts that allow me to build MORE than just a big round rocket stack with a kerbbed capsule at the very tippy top, or an airplane or spaceplane that looks like the Space Shuttle (R.I.P.).

So, these things are what I look for every time I read a 'Tuesday Dev Notes' post, and obviously I'm disappointed every time.  In conclusion, and specifically for the reasons listed above, I really don't think that you should be calling the game 'Released', or 'Done', as in 'Version 1.anything'.  To me, the game is more in a state that  I would call about 'Version 0.93'.  At BEST.

My opinions, worth what you paid for them. 

[Padishar]

10 minutes ago, Neutrinovore said:

My opinions, worth what you paid for them.

I presume that "My opinions are worth nothing" isn't actually what you were trying to say, otherwise there was no point in posting them...

[StrandedonEarth]

22 minutes ago, Neutrinovore said:

It boggles my mind that the ONLY 'Kerbal-made' structures on the ENTIRE PLANET are still just the KSC and the Island Runway

You're forgetting KSC 2 and the pyramids on the other side of the planet. Get the Anomaly Surveyor Contract Pack to point you towards them. But yeah, the planet is pretty devoid of signs of life otherwise.

[Red Iron Crown]

Work on update full of features -> "Why aren't you fixing bugs?!"

Work on update full of bug fixes -> "Why are there no new features?!"

[Redneck]

there really isnt anything relevant coming out of this thread perhaps now its time to close it 

[Frida Space]

Sorry if this has been answered already (I haven't done a good job at keeping up with all the devnotes etc), has there been any official confirmation yet of antenna relay in 1.1?

Edited March 24, 2016 by Frida Space

[Raptor9]

5 minutes ago, Frida Space said:

Sorry if this has been answered already (I haven't done a good job at keeping up with all the devnotes etc), has there been any official confirmation yet of antenna relay in 1.1?

It was announced a while ago that it was pushed until after 1.1.  They haven't said anything to contradict this prior statement, so I would assume it's still valid.

[Frybert]

Yes, the antenna changes are not shipping with 1.1. They will be in another update somewhere down the road.

[Frida Space]

@Raptor9 @Frybert thank you. It's a shame, but I'm sure there will be plenty of stuff to make up for it, as always