[1.3.0] Kerbalism v1.2.9

[ShotgunNinja]

@DarkonZ Thanks buddy, much appreciated. ConnectedLivingSpace provide othet mods with the ability to get info about contiguos internal habitable spaces of a vessel. Im looking into it as it may be an elegant way to add things like 'storm cellars' to the radiation mechanic without messing it up. No need to test it now, i have to add support first but thanks alot. Keep it coming.

[Beowolf]

12 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

I'm intrested in integrating Kerbalsim into KSPI-E. I'm specificly intrested in the enering maintenance part of it. In order to do that effectively I need to ineract with your mod, could you please extend your Kerbalism_Hooks  class to include method I can use to return the state generators, engines and reactors? Also I would like to have some methods of influence the  Radiation of any Kerbal on EVA  depending on the activity of the nuclear, fusion or antimatter reactors

An excellent idea! KSPI's been crying out a good radiation mechanic to work with since its first version.  

[ShotgunNinja]

@FreeThinker Sure. Let me think of the best way to do it. Do you have a github account? We could brainstorm there about this, raise an issue and i'll met you there.

We can also do it here, why not.

Im thinking maybe a method to "injiect" radiation (in rad) to an arbitrary kerbal by name, would that be decent?

Edited April 19, 2016 by ShotgunNinja

[ShotgunNinja]

@FreeThinker

For the malfunctions, do you want a way to query state of a component? Or a way to trigger them? Or both?

[selfish_meme]

1.1 is out, I would really like to trythis, good luck with the transition!

[Kerbalstar]

ShotgunNinja I have a question. Will this work with my existing savegame?

[FreeThinker]

On 19-4-2016 at 11:45 PM, Beowolf said:

An excellent idea! KSPI's been crying out a good radiation mechanic to work with since its first version.  

Actualy, KSPI did have a radiation mechanic, but it never had any actual effect. Although radiation is an integrate part of interstellar travel, I felt it needed an external 3th party integral solution which combines with Kerbals  overall well being and performance. Kerbalsim is the first mod which seems to come up with an integral solution which combines both Radiation, Lifesupport and Mechanical Maintenance, a rare combination.

Edited April 22, 2016 by FreeThinker

[ShotgunNinja]

@kerbalstar Yes but consider that all manned vessels you have around will have no oxygen, the crew will suffocate in few minutes.

In addition, all probes will have no Antenna module on board, and can't be controlled...

And there will be no malfunctions on existing vessels you have around.

Also consider that some of your vessels maybe weren't designed for backround EC consumption/production, so there is that too.

[Speeding Mullet]

This looks like fantastic mod.  Bookmarked and waiting for 1.1 update in which I will certainly take it for a spin 

Couple of suggestions / observations / questions that immediately hit me (apologies if already mentioned in the thread and I've missed it):

Parts - One thing I would look for with a mod like this is a comprehensive/varied and high quality parts set.  Is this part of your plan?  I'm imagining well refined green houses, base parts, everything.  Moar parts basically .  If not then are you relying on people integrating the functionality into their own parts mods?

Space weather - Can you elaborate on how this works in the mod?  Are the CME's entirely random and omnidirecitonal (i.e. they affect you no matter where you are in the system) or do they fire off in a particular direction from an imagined or simulated active region on Kerbal as the Wiki suggests it might.  If the latter is the case then could it be possible in the future to use the map view to visualize a CME event even on a basic level, and is it possible to integrate something into the mod to show active regions on the surface of Kerbol.  I'm imagining space weather analysis courtesy of the tracking station.  Maybe you figure out the CME will just miss the crew, or maybe it's definitely all hands on deck!

Shielding - Implementing a storm shelter module sounds like a nice idea if you can do it under the radiation component.  Quick question though:  "under cosmic-level of radiation a Kerbal can survive 250d with a ShieldingFactor of 0.0 (eg: no shielding at all), and 5y 370d with a ShieldingFactor of 1.0 (eg: max amount of shielding). So to simplify, it cost 2T per-Kerbal to give a vessel the max amount of shielding possible."  I'm 100% sure I've not grasped this but does this mean that the shielding on any mission is only ever good for a maximum of 5y 370d and then the Kerbal will die?

Other - I have huge respect for people who create mods in their own time, for free and make them available for people like myself with no time/experience/inclination to try modding for myself.  I wouldn't pay much heed to detractors - I'm pretty sure this huge piece of work will gain a decent popular following.  Well done and thanks!

 

SM

 

 

[seaces]

How do you increase entretainment conditions for kerbals?

[ShotgunNinja]

@Speeding Mullet The parts included were necessary to make the mod playable and self-contained. I've received some offer to help  and you may expect some more and/or some improvement on the existing one. Also I'm working on adding MM patches for the best part packs (contributions are welcome).

CME are generated at random and directed toward a specific planetary system. The frequency and the time-to-impact depend on the distance of that planetary system from the Sun. They affect the vessels that are inside the planetary system in two ways: if outside a magnetosphere and in direct line of sight with the Sun they get storm-level of radiation, if inside a magnetosphere they get no radiation but the signal blackouts.

In future I would like to make the magnetosphere 'drop shaped' using some kind of distance function, and likewise use a more realistic shape for the belt too. I also plan to show them in a way or another in the TrackingView... my initial idea was to show them as a set of 'orbit lines' at the boundaries (that can be toggled on/off), but I met some problems and so it was delayed.

For shielding you got it, but keep in mind that they get no radiation inside magnetospheres so they will have to be exposed to cosmic radiations for 5y 370d to die. I'm open to increase that limit however, if it turns out to be necessary. In fact I'm open to all kind of balance tweaks.

For the 'storm shelter' approach I'm working on it. My idea right now is to consider shielding (and quality of life) like it is now, except for subset of the vessels that are contiguous habitable space. 

That will permit the storm shelter approach:

• Design part of your vessel to be a hardened shelter, and other to be the main hab space. Focus on shielding in the shelter parts, focus on quality of life in the main hab parts
• When a storm hit, or when you are crossing a radiation belt, transfer the crew to the shelter part
• Don't just keep the crew in the shelter part, as it has worse quality of life and you'll make Kerbals attain mental breakdown sooner

Also that would resolve an inconsistency that is currently present:

• if you want to land non-shielded surface modules apollo style, make sure you don't make them contiguous with the main hab space
• put less shielding in the landing module hab (you want to minimize mass)
• put more shielding in the main hab
• before decoupling the two, your crew get the shielding factor of the main hab space irregardless of the one in the landing module hab
• etc

 

@seaces Have you seen the wiki section about Quality of Life? There is some info in there. Entertainment work like this:

• some modules can provide entertainment, and each one has an 'entertainment rate'
• all entertainment rates in a vessel are multiplied together, so the total goes up relatively fast the more entertainment parts you add
• by default the Cupola and the Hitchhiker are tagged as Entertainment parts
• if you have VenStockRevamp the InflatableHab is tagged as an Entertainment part
• other parts can be tagged as Entertainment by making a MM patch like this one:

  @PART[your_part_unique_name]
  {
    MODULE
    {
      name = Entertainment
      description = Add a funny description here, will be shown in the editor and techtree tooltip for the part
      rate = 2.0 // << the entertainment rate, make sure its greater than 1.0 as they get multiplied together
    }
  }

   

[Nansuchao]

Using Kopernicus with some planets pack, IMHO 5 years as a limit for travel would not be enough. With OPM, you need 23 years to reach the last planet of the Kerbol system. In 5 years a crew cannot reach Eloo and come back safely.

From a LS point of view, Deep Freeze will be the right choice for such long travel or some kind of Warp engine, but for radiation, could be possible maybe for engineers to fix the shielding someway along the travel?

Maybe using the stock Ore as a resource. What do you think about?

[ShotgunNinja]

@Nansuchao The Shielding resource do not deplete. The radiation instead is balanced using threshold values for the kerbal life-span, and a constant that determine the proportion of radiation absorbed at max ShieldingFactor (so when Shielding is at full capacity). You made a good point about Eloo, that would make sense to balance the thing so that at max shielding you are just able to reach it and come back. Its a bit tricky to make the whole mechanic relevant to the early game and at the same time make it not impossible in the late game.

Right now the constant for the ShieldingFactor is 0.9. If i put it to 0.95 this will not influence early game much but it will double the life-span when shielding is at full capacity, to something just above 10y. Will that be enough for Eloo?

Maybe I need to revisit this completely, to do some kind of auto-balance like I did with the antenna ranges and calculate these values from the features of the solar system and assume nothing. That way planet packs like OPM will just work out of the box.

 

[seaces]

@ShotgunNinja Ok thnx on the reply. I will give it a look. btw I beleive for the beginning this mod is fine.

[PanzerAlpaca]

Sounds like an interesting mod. Can I consider that's another RO version? But I suspect this one is more Kerbal. Right? Cheers. 

[Nansuchao]

1 hour ago, ShotgunNinja said:

@Nansuchao The Shielding resource do not deplete. The radiation instead is balanced using threshold values for the kerbal life-span, and a constant that determine the proportion of radiation absorbed at max ShieldingFactor (so when Shielding is at full capacity). You made a good point about Eloo, that would make sense to balance the thing so that at max shielding you are just able to reach it and come back. Its a bit tricky to make the whole mechanic relevant to the early game and at the same time make it not impossible in the late game.

Right now the constant for the ShieldingFactor is 0.9. If i put it to 0.95 this will not influence early game much but it will double the life-span when shielding is at full capacity, to something just above 10y. Will that be enough for Eloo?

Maybe I need to revisit this completely, to do some kind of auto-balance like I did with the antenna ranges and calculate these values from the features of the solar system and assume nothing. That way planet packs like OPM will just work out of the box.

 

10 years will be ok for Eloo. You're right about the early game, in that case, eventually, you can use a system like many other mods, in which you unlock more powerful shielding along the tech tree progression (like the Interstellar reactor for example). In the early game the shielding will be ok for few month at his max, and for years and years at the end of the progression.

Otherwise maybe just a MM patch can balance for various planet pack, using the longest travel possible as the limit.

Can you imagine traveling between stars in Kerbal Galaxy?

Edited April 20, 2016 by Nansuchao

[ShotgunNinja]

@Nansuchao I through of balancing it with technologies, but I'm doing that with scrubber efficiency, signal processing and manufacturing quality already and I just run out of meaningful techs

Have a look at this. If I can find 2 or 3 technologies not already used that will make sense for radiation, I'll add that. Suggestions are appreciated of course.

[Kerbalstar]

4 hours ago, ShotgunNinja said:

@kerbalstar Yes but consider that all manned vessels you have around will have no oxygen, the crew will suffocate in few minutes.

In addition, all probes will have no Antenna module on board, and can't be controlled...

And there will be no malfunctions on existing vessels you have around.

Also consider that some of your vessels maybe weren't designed for backround EC consumption/production, so there is that too.

Thanks I'll have to get my crew home then I guess. Probes  will require a better plan.

[Nansuchao]

The node when you unlock the Nerva seem well related also to radiations. 

 

I remeber that Nasa thought about using the waste of the astronaut's snacks and water to create little radiations shields, to help protecting from radiation in sleep room or hab module on a travel to Mars.

Does this sound interesting to you?

[ShotgunNinja]

@kerbalstar For the missing Antenna problem, if you have some savegame-editing-fu you could locate the module section of existing antenna parts in your vessels and then replace the ModuleDataTransmitter section with this one, that will at least give your existing probes support for the signal mechanic

Spoiler

MODULE
{
  name = Antenna
  isEnabled = True
  scope = extreme
  relay_cost = 0.01
  min_transmission_cost = 1
  max_transmission_cost = 2
  relay = False
  xmitIncomplete = False
  stagingEnabled = True
  EVENTS
  {
	ActivateRelayEvent
	{
  	  active = True
  	  guiActive = True
	  guiActiveUncommand = False
	  guiIcon = Enable Relay
	  guiName = Enable Relay
	  category = Enable Relay
	  guiActiveUnfocused = False
	  unfocusedRange = 2
	  externalToEVAOnly = True
	}
	DeactivateRelayEvent
	{
	  active = False
	  guiActive = True
	  guiActiveUncommand = False
	  guiIcon = Disable Relay
	  guiName = Disable Relay
	  category = Disable Relay
	  guiActiveUnfocused = False
	  unfocusedRange = 2
	  externalToEVAOnly = True
	}
	ToggleRelayInEditorEvent
	{
	  active = True
	  guiActive = False
	  guiActiveEditor = True
	  guiActiveUncommand = False
	  guiIcon = Toggle Relay
	  guiName = Toggle Relay
	  category = Toggle Relay
	  guiActiveUnfocused = False
	  unfocusedRange = 2
	  externalToEVAOnly = True
	}
	StartTransmission
	{
	  active = True
	  guiActive = True
	  guiActiveUncommand = False
	  guiIcon = Transmit Data
	  guiName = Transmit Data
	  category = Transmit Data
	  guiActiveUnfocused = False
	  unfocusedRange = 2
	  externalToEVAOnly = True
	}
	TransmitIncompleteToggle
	{
	  active = False
	  guiActive = True
	  guiActiveUncommand = False
	  guiIcon = Toggle Transmit Incomplete
	  guiName = Require Complete
	  category = Toggle Transmit Incomplete
	  guiActiveUnfocused = False
	  unfocusedRange = 2
	  externalToEVAOnly = True
	}
	StopTransmission
	{
	  active = False
	  guiActive = True
	  guiActiveUncommand = False
	  guiIcon = Stop Transmitting
	  guiName = Stop Transmitting
	  category = Stop Transmitting
	  guiActiveUnfocused = False
	  unfocusedRange = 2
	  externalToEVAOnly = True
	}
	ToggleStaging
	{
	  active = True
	  guiActive = False
	  guiActiveUncommand = False
	  guiIcon = Disable Staging
	  guiName = Disable Staging
	  category = Disable Staging
	  guiActiveUnfocused = False
	  unfocusedRange = 2
	  externalToEVAOnly = True
	}
  }
  ACTIONS
  {
  }
}

 

 

@Nansuchao Its interesting because I already have a waste pseudo-resource (meaning nobody see it). A module could be made that transform Waste into Shielding (at a very low rate), perhaps, and it could be added to some manned modules as a special feature (to things that look like sleeping quarters of some kind). I'll consider this.

[Nansuchao]

The lab could do the job, seen that it also need for sure to be well shielded, and it would be perfect for bases off kerbin.

Edited April 20, 2016 by Nansuchao

[Kerbalstar]

@ShotgunNinja thanks. But the Kraken has struck.

[DarkonZ]

ShotgunNinja,

So I finally got to digging around in the Community Tech tree and creating my own personal configs for parts from other mods I have. Even though your mod has very few parts, maybe someday you add something new to the mod or go parts crazy. So I did this just for fun and shoved said file into the patches dir:

// ====================================================================
// KerbalismCTT.cfg
//
// Adjust parts to better match the CTT
// ====================================================================

//    Greenhouse
//
    @PART[Greenhouse]:NEEDS[CommunityTechTree]:AFTER[Kerbalism]
    {
        @TechRequired = hydroponics
    }

--

Now the bad news. A possible bug related to the probe parts with the telemetry experiment. On my end I can reproduce it continuously. It's simple. In the VAB plop down a probe command part. Hit launch, then a few seconds later revert to vehicle assembly. When I get back to the VAB all the top buttons, like load/save and exit are greyed out. Can't build or change parts either. According to the alt+F12 debug window, the only thing that seems to stand out is this single line: "no_signal_lock". Of course, clearing the input lock cache fixes everything and I'm good to go. Same thing for the SPH as well.

I was able to reproduce this in a fresh copy of KSP [1.05_1028] with just Kerbalism as the only mod added. Bummer. Oh, and in all cases, this does not happen when one actually places an antenna on the probe part.

I really should have caught this sooner, but I guess probes, a telemetry experiment, and antennaz just wasn't at the top of my list of things to do. Oh well...


BTW - A suggestion for your GUI would be to add some kind of calculations that determine how many days of food or oxygen remain. Those percentage values kinda don't cut it. Sure, maybe I'm just used to playing with other life support mods, but I can see a situation or three where seeing at glance how much stuff is left in days would be helpful. Soon enough, I'll have Kerbal Construction Time as well as Kerbal Alarm Clock setup. Proper planning and timing become relevant. Just a thought.

HTH,
 

[ShotgunNinja]

@kerbalstar Are you running KSP 1.1.0 by any chance? Because I haven't released the 1.1.0 compatible version yet.

[DarkonZ]

Version was in my post KSP [1.0.5_1028]