[1.3.0] Kerbalism v1.2.9

[Uldis]

Malfunction is working to all ships (with kerbals and without)? on wiki isnt answer. If I send sattelite without engineer (without any kerbal) it will brake? Or it works only with ships which handle kerbals?

Edited May 11, 2016 by Uldis

[Nansuchao]

16 minutes ago, Uldis said:

Malfunction is working to all ships (with kerbals and without)? on wiki isnt answer. If I send sattelite without engineer (without any kerbal) it will brake? Or it works only with ships which handle kerbals?

All ships

[RattiRatto]

For handling malfunctions over a probe I was thinking about a component (like a robotic hand) which does the same thing as the engineer but with quite a few drawbacks: it costs a lot, needs to be touching the broken part in order to repair it(so you probably have to play a lot with infernal robotics mod in order to create an arm which can cover the whole probe) and require a huge amount of EC when activated (needs to charge before? capacitors?). I'm not familiar with Unity or KSP modding but i might look into something like this in the future 

[Barrin]

Quick update for the realism.cfg profile:

Spoiler

// ============================================================================
// EXPERIMENTAL PROFILE - Only for testing purposes, use at your own risk.
// ============================================================================
//
// This profile is geared toward more realism oriented players.
// In comparison to the default profile, this one adds water, has more realistic
// consumption rates, conserves mass, and provides a water filtration system.

// ============================================================================
// ENABLE FEATURES
// ============================================================================

// comment out to disable the signal mechanic
// disabled automatically if RemoteTech or AntennaRange are detected
@Settings:FOR[EnableSignal] {}

// comment out to disable malfunctions
// disabled automatically if DangIt is detected
@Settings:FOR[EnableMalfunction] {}

// comment out to remove scrubbers from the game
@Settings:FOR[EnableScrubber] {}

// comment out to remove shielding from the game
@Settings:FOR[EnableShielding] {}


// ============================================================================
// RULES
// ============================================================================

// CLIMATE
Rule
{
  name = Climate
  resource_name = ElectricCharge
  rate = 0.0001242236 // 0.02 per-second at average temp diff in LKO
  degeneration = 0.00000345 // 30min
  on_eva = 20.0 // 16min
  on_resque = 250.0
  modifier = temperature

  warning_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL feels cold|$ON_VESSEL$KERBAL is sweating
  danger_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL is freezing to death|$ON_VESSEL$KERBAL is burning alive
  fatal_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL froze to death|$ON_VESSEL$KERBAL was burned alive
  relax_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL hypothermia is under control|$ON_VESSEL$KERBAL is hugging the climatizer

  low_message = $VESSEL batteries are almost empty$NEWLINE<i>We are squeezing the last bit of juice</i>|$VESSEL batteries are almost empty$NEWLINE<i>Shutting down non-essential systems</i>
  empty_message = There is no more ElectricCharge on $VESSEL$NEWLINE<i>Life support systems are off</i>|There is no more ElectricCharge on $VESSEL$NEWLINE<i>We lost control</i>
  refill_message = $VESSEL batteries recharged$NEWLINE<i>The crew is allowed music again</i>|$VESSEL batteries recharged$NEWLINE<i>Systems are back online</i>
}


// FOOD
Rule
{
  name = Food
  resource_name = Food
  waste_name = Waste
  waste_ratio = 0.36498207977208
  rate = 1.5 // 6 per-day
  interval = 5400.0 // four meals a day
  degeneration = 0.03125 // 32 meals, 8 days
  on_pod = 60.0
  on_eva = 0.0
  on_resque = 6.0

  warning_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL is hungry
  danger_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL is starving
  fatal_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL starved to death
  relax_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL has got a mouthful of snacks now

  low_message = Food reserves are getting low on $VESSEL$NEWLINE<i>Anything edible is being scrutinized</i>
  empty_message = There is no more food on $VESSEL$NEWLINE<i>The crew prepare for the inevitable</i>
  refill_message = $VESSEL food reserves restored$NEWLINE<i>Double snack rations for everybody</i>
}

// WATER
Rule
{
  name = Water
  resource_name = Water
  waste_name = WasteWater
  rate = 0.75 // 3 liters per-day
  interval = 5400.0 // 4 drinks per day
  degeneration = 0.0625 // 16 drinks, 4 days
  on_pod = 30.0
  on_eva = 0.0
  on_resque = 3.0

  warning_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL is thirsty
  danger_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL is very dehydrated
  fatal_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL died from dehydration
  relax_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL has access to water again

  low_message = Water reserves are getting low on $VESSEL$NEWLINE<i>The crew wants to know if LOx is potable</i>
  empty_message = There is no more water on $VESSEL$NEWLINE<i>The crew prepare for the inevitable</i>
  refill_message = $VESSEL water reserves have been refilled$NEWLINE<i>Drinks all around</i>
}

// WATER FILTRATION
Rule
{
  name = WaterFiltration
  resource_name = FiltrationMaterial
  on_pod = 0.0
  on_eva = 0.0 
  on_resque = 1.0
  low_threshold = 0.1
  low_message = The water filtration material is running low on $VESSEL$NEWLINE<i>The crew is nervously checking the mission time table.</i>
  empty_message = $VESSEL has no remaining water filtration material$NEWLINE<i>They have enough clean water onboard to make it home, right?</i>
  refill_message = $VESSEL has been resupplied with water filtration material$NEWLINE<i>Everyone can stop hoarding their water now.</i>
}

// OXYGEN
Rule
{
  name = Oxygen
  resource_name = Oxygen
  waste_name = CarbonDioxide
  waste_ratio = 0.75
  rate = 0.025 // 540 liters of Oxygen consumed per-day
  degeneration = 0.002083333 // 8 minutes
  on_pod = 1620.0
  on_eva = 90.0 // One hour of oxygen
  on_resque = 540.0 // One day of oxygen
  modifier = breathable

  warning_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL can't breathe
  danger_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL is suffocating
  fatal_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL suffocated to death
  relax_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL is breathing again

  low_message = Oxygen reserves are dangerously low on $VESSEL$NEWLINE<i>There is mild panic among the crew</i>
  empty_message = There is no more oxygen on $VESSEL$NEWLINE<i>Everybody stop breathing</i>
  refill_message = $VESSEL oxygen reserves restored$NEWLINE<i>The crew is taking a breather</i>
}

// QUALITY OF LIFE
Rule
{
  name = Stress
  degeneration = 0.00000086805 // 60 days
  variance = 0.33 // add per-kerbal variance
  modifier = qol
  breakdown = true // trigger breakdown event instead of death

  warning_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL is losing $HIS_HER mind$NEWLINE<i>Concentration is becoming a problem</i>
  danger_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL is about to breakdown$NEWLINE<i>Starting to hear voices</i>
  // no fatal_message because breakdown message is generated automatically
  // no relax_message because there is no recovery from stress
}

// RADIATION POISONING
Rule
{
  name = Radiation
  degeneration = 1.0 // just use the modifier
  modifier = radiation

  warning_threshold = 15.0 // in rad
  danger_threshold = 22.5 // in rad
  fatal_threshold = 30.0 // in rad

  warning_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL has been exposed to intense radiation
  danger_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL is reporting symptoms of radiation poisoning
  fatal_message = $ON_VESSEL$KERBAL died after being exposed to extreme radiation
  // no relax_message because there is no recovery from radiation
}

// ============================================================================
// Customize resource containers
// ============================================================================

@PART[kerbalism-food-small]
{
  @mass = 0.25
  @RESOURCE[Food]
  {
    @amount = 150
    @maxAmount = 150
  }
}

@PART[kerbalism-food-125]
{
  @mass = 0.5
  @RESOURCE[Food]
  {
    @amount = 600
    @maxAmount = 600
  }
}

@PART[kerbalism-food-250]
{
  @RESOURCE[Food]
  {
    @amount = 4800
    @maxAmount = 4800
  }
}

@PART[kerbalism-oxygen-radial|RadialOxygenBig]
{
  @RESOURCE[Oxygen]
  {
    @name = Oxygen
    @amount *= 0.54
    @maxAmount *= 0.54
  }
}


// ============================================================================
// Add scrubbers and water recyclers to command pods
// ============================================================================

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE[ModuleCommand],#CrewCapacity[>0]]
{
  MODULE
  {
    name = Scrubber

    // change scrubbed resource
    resource_name = Oxygen

    // change waste name
    waste_name = CarbonDioxide

    // change ec/s per-crew
    ec_rate = 0.01
    @ec_rate *= #$/CrewCapacity$

    // change waste/s per-crew
    co2_rate = 0.03
    @co2_rate *= #$/CrewCapacity$
  }

  MODULE
  {
    name = ModuleResourceConverter
    ConverterName = Water Filtration System
    StartActionName = Filter Waste Water
    StopActionName = Stop Filtration
    FillAmount = 0.9
    AutoShutdown = true
    UseSpecializationBonus = false
    INPUT_RESOURCE
    {
      ResourceName = ElectricCharge
      Ratio = 0.4 
      FlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW    
      //Each unit of filtration material can clean 12 units of waste water at the total cost of 400 EC 
      //3 units of water per day per kerbonaut, so filtration will cost 100 EC per kerbonaut each day
    }
    INPUT_RESOURCE
    {
      ResourceName = FiltrationMaterial
      Ratio = 0.001
      FlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
    }
    INPUT_RESOURCE
    {
      ResourceName = WasteWater
      Ratio = 0.012
      FlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
    }
    OUTPUT_RESOURCE
    {
      ResourceName = Water
      Ratio = 0.012
      DumpExcess = false
      FlowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
    }
  }

  RESOURCE
  {
  	name = FiltrationMaterial
    
    // Carrying a full load of filtration material adds 80 days of potential mission lifetime
    maxAmount = 20.0 
    @maxAmount *= #$/CrewCapacity$
    
    // Water filtration material is expensive, so default to carrying only a few.
    amount = 3.0
    @amount *= #$/CrewCapacity$
  }
}

// Cover the 'wet cost' of Filtration Material added to parts
@PART[*]:HAS[@RESOURCE[FiltrationMaterial]]
{  
  materialCost = #$/RESOURCE[FiltrationMaterial]/maxAmount$
  @materialCost *= #$@RESOURCE_DEFINITION[FiltrationMaterial]/unitCost$
  @materialCost *= #$/CrewCapacity$
  @cost += #$materialCost$	
}

// Water filtrationMaterial resource definition
RESOURCE_DEFINITION
{
  name = FiltrationMaterial
  density = 0.0004
  flowMode = STAGE_PRIORITY_FLOW
  transfer = NONE
  isTweakable = true
  isVisible = true
  unitCost = 40.0 // Moderately expensive, but easier to get into orbit than the equivalent amount of water
}


// ============================================================================
// Customize greenhouse
// ============================================================================


@PART[Greenhouse]
{
  @MODULE[Greenhouse]
  {
    // change food resource
    @resource_name = Food

    // change waste resource
    @waste_name = Waste

    // change ec rate for the lamps
    @ec_rate = 0.5

    // change waste rate
    @waste_rate = 0.0003041517331434 // waste/s for crew of 3

    // change harvest size
    @harvest_size = 5400.0 // food consumed for 3 crew over 300 days at 6 food per day == 5400 food

    // change growth rate
    @growth_rate = 0.00000015432 // 300 days
  }
}


// ============================================================================
// Explicitly set hidden waste resource capacity in pods
// ============================================================================


@PART[*]:HAS[#CrewCapacity[>0]]
{
  %RESOURCE[Waste]
  {
    %isTweakable = false
    %isVisible = false
    %maxAmount = 20.0
    @maxAmount *= #$/CrewCapacity$
  }

  %RESOURCE[WasteWater]
  {
    %isTweakable = false
    %isVisible = false
    %maxAmount = 30.0
    @maxAmount *= #$/CrewCapacity$
  }

  %RESOURCE[CarbonDioxide]
  {
    %isTweakable = false
    %isVisible = false
    %maxAmount = 1215.0
    @maxAmount *= #$/CrewCapacity$
  }
}

 

This version tweaks some of the specific food/oxygen part settings instead of applying a global multiplier to the kerbalism food/oxygen parts and greatly reduces the EC cost of using the water filtration module on command pods. While the EC cost of water filtration is much, much lower in this version, using the module now also requires a filtration material, putting a limit on how long the water filtration module can be run without being resupplied.

If you're also using Universal Storage and you'd like to enable several useful life support parts that work well with this profile, paste the following into a text file, save it as a .cfg file, and drop it somewhere in your Kerbalism folder:

// ============================================================================
// Unlock Universal Storage parts by spoofing TacLifeSupport settings
// ============================================================================

@Settings:FOR[TacLifeSupport] {} 


// ============================================================================
// Tweak some Universal Storage part settings
// ============================================================================

@PART[US_Radial_R40_Food]
{
  @RESOURCE[Food]
  {
    @amount = 6
    @maxAmount = 6
  }
}

@PART[US_1R320_Wedge_Food]
{
  @description = Packed to the brim with compressed food-like-items; this supply canister provides everything an indulgent Kerbalnaut would ever need in a lightweight, semi-edible package. Note: packaging is not edible. Food-like-items may or may not provide actual nutritional value. 
  @title = Universal Storage: Food Storage Canister
  @RESOURCE[Food]
  {
    @amount = 36
    @maxAmount = 36
  }
}

This should enable all the TAC Life Support parts, and balance the amount of food stored in the US wedges/radials.

Keep in mind, this profile is still experimental and there may be changes down the line that could break save games, so please backup your saves.

 

Edited May 11, 2016 by Barrin
Fixed a typo in two resource[] tags. Removed the battery check rule, as it was redundant with climate already in the settings.

[ShotgunNinja]

@Guest83 The ETA on that one is 'when it is done'. On the positive side you will be able to plug that in at any moment in an existing career.

The EC problem you describe may be some weird FP precision issue, or something else entirely. I'll do some tests. Thanks for reporting that.

 

@RattiRatto If you do that, I'm going to add an hook for you to repair malfunctions on a certain part from code.

Edited May 11, 2016 by ShotgunNinja

[Elington]

@ShotgunNinja just dropping by to thank you for this masterpiece of yours! 

[DarkonZ]

Now wouldn't it be funny if SN said somewhere "Don't Do This". What I did was copy over the entire game directory to another folder, disable the default profile, then change the profile to realism, and restarted that game. My singular, unmanned space station [low orbit] was no longer controllable, nor was I able to terminate the thing. So I guess my next question is far more relevant, at least for me.

Might I ask what profile users of Kerbalism are going for?

As I see it, the TACLS mod is active again, and my main game already has that, so I've been there, done that. Same goes for Kerbalisms default profile. I'm kinda leaning toward the realism profile, but I'm not quite sure about that water resource. Are there any other mods out there that use a water resource? Could the Kerbalism supplied greenhouse be made to consume water + small amount wastewater + small amount carbondioxide during the growth period? <- Or is that going to be nothing but trouble?

Anyway, a salute to SN (of course), and a shout out to those working on the profiles. Good job!

On other thing, just installed KIS/KAS. Would it be possible to add entertainment value to some of those inventory items? I can see a bottle of bubs beer, and a stereo in a kerbals inventory -> Then you'd have some drunk kerbals jamming out in space. Now THAT would be entertaining. Oh well.

[Barrin]

37 minutes ago, DarkonZ said:

Are there any other mods out there that use a water resource?

UniversalStorage has some useful Water related parts, and I believe several of the USI mods (USI Kolonization System) use Water, as well as CarbonDioxide, Waste, and Wastewater.  (Possibly scratch that, USI's MKS does use water, but I can't verify that it's using the same waste resources. The wiki seems out of date. Downloading it now to double check directly.)

EDIT: Okay, looks like most of the USI parts should work, as long as you are spoofing Tac-LS support using a module manager patch (@Settings:FOR[TacLifeSupport] {}). There's way too much overlap in terms of what parts do what, though, so I'm not sure how well it would all play together. (Sorry about that.)

 

Edited May 11, 2016 by Barrin

[ShotgunNinja]

@DarkonZ I'm thinking about just removing the TAC-LS emulation profile, as the Realism one is growing in scope and also as you say TAC-LS just got rebooted.

If you open the realism.cfg file, you will notice a big text message at the top that say 'EXPERIMENTAL'  , althrough I don't know what happened in your case.

You can add entertainment to a part with something like this:

@PART[KIS_stereo_system]
{
  MODULE
  {
    name = Entertainment
    rate = 1.35 // just a tiny bit
    description = Kerbals like music
  }
}

 

[casper88]

if i remove the "scrubber" mm patch  in the profile will that disable that mechanic? scrubbers remove something ie CO2 scrubbers remove CO2 from air...I haven't heard of a "scrubber" recycling oxygen...

 

Quote

Traditionally, the term "scrubber" has referred to pollution control devices that use liquid to wash unwanted pollutants from a gas stream

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scrubber

 

[Genolution]

23 hours ago, ShotgunNinja said:

This is the list of planned features and changes:

- a new undisclosed mechanic 

Is this what I think it is?

[ShotgunNinja]

@casper88

A CO2 scrubber remove CO2 from human exhaust air, allowing the Oxygen still in it to be reused. The technology is old (think submarines). Scrubbing, in general, means 'filtering something out of something else'. If you remove the Scrubber bit from the MM patch then the pods will not have a scrubber anymore and then, de facto, you will be removing that mechanic from the game entirely. The 'EnableScrubber' feature-tag is not used directly by Kerbalism, it is there in the hope that third-party MM patches that add scrubbers will NEEDS that, allowing the user to remove all their scrubbers too by merely commenting out that line in the profile.

 

@Genolution

Probably not 

Edited May 11, 2016 by ShotgunNinja

[Genolution]

8 minutes ago, casper88 said:

if i remove the "scrubber" mm patch  in the profile will that disable that mechanic? scrubbers remove something ie CO2 scrubbers remove CO2 from air...I haven't heard of a "scrubber" recycling oxygen...

 

 

CO2 or carbon dioxide  is 1 carbon molecule bonded with 2 oxygen molecules. A scrubber just separates the carbon from the oxygen .

Edit: @ShotgunNinja you just beat me to it

 

Edited May 11, 2016 by Genolution

[Fraz86]

@ShotgunNinja I like that you standardized solar panel EC output by surface area (0.08 EC per panel), however, there are now inconsistencies in EC per mass:

Part	EC	Mass	EC/mass
OX-STAT	0.08	0.005	16
OX-STAT-XL	0.64	0.02	32
OX-4W	0.48	0.0175	27.42857143
OX-4L	0.48	0.0175	27.42857143
SP-W	0.48	0.025	19.2
SP-L	0.48	0.025	19.2
Gigantor	4	0.3	13.33333333

As you can see, EC/mass for OX-STAT and Gigantor aren't where they ought to be relative to the other panels. Gigantor is an easy fix (an EC output of 6 would be fine), but the OX-STAT is a bit more tricky. Doubling its EC output would break EC/area consistency with other panels, while halving its mass would make it the only object with a mass <0.005 in the entire game. I suppose that leaves the option of doubling the mass of all panels except the OX-STAT (you could also double all EC outputs if you want to keep the EC/mass in the 19-32 range)? So, something like this:

Part	EC	Mass	EC/mass
OX-STAT	0.16	0.005	32
OX-STAT-XL	1.28	0.04	32
OX-4W	0.96	0.035	27.42857143
OX-4L	0.96	0.035	27.42857143
SP-W	0.96	0.05	19.2
SP-L	0.96	0.05	19.2
Gigantor	12	0.6	20

 

Edited May 11, 2016 by Fraz86

[Meridius]

Second...would like to see water.

[ShotgunNinja]

@Fraz86 Thanks for the analysis, I was curious about stock values and made this, maybe it is useful:

PART	MASS	EC/s @1AU	EC/mass (vs OX-STAT)
OX-STAT	0.005	0.35	70 (1.0)
OX-STAT-XL	0.04	2.8	70 (1.0)
OX-4W	0.0175	1.64	93.71 (1.33)
OX-4L	0.0175	1.64	93.71 (1.33)
SP-W	0.025	1.64	65.60 (0.93)
SP-L	0.025	1.64	65.60 (0.93)
GIGANTOR	0.3	24.4	81.33 (1.16)

Anyway I'm thinking of doing these changes:

• restore original OX-STAT-XL mass to 0.04
• increase Gigantor output to 5.0
• reduce output of the non-redeployable tracking panels to 0.32

This would lead to:

PART	MASS	EC/S	EC/mass (vs OX-STAT)	NOTE
OX-STAT	0.005	0.08	16.0 (1.0)
OX-STAT-XL	0.04	0.64	16.0 (1.0)
OX-4W	0.0175	0.32	18.28 (1.14)	tracking
OX-4L	0.0175	0.32	18.28 (1.14)	tracking
SP-W	0.025	0.48	19.2 (1.2)	tracking, redeployable
SP-L	0.025	0.48	19.2 (1.2)	tracking, redeployable
GIGANTOR	0.3	5.0	16.66 (1.04)	tracking, redeployable

that I think is acceptable. Throughts?

[Fraz86]

@ShotgunNinja Hmm, well, I'm not sure I follow your logic on those numbers. That results in an EC/mass hierarchy with Tracking (redeployable) > Tracking (nonredeployable) > Static, which is opposite from what I find intuitive. One would imagine that static panels would be the most mass efficient (as they do not require extra mass for deployment/tracking mechanisms), and redeployable panels would be the least mass efficient.

[DarkonZ]

6 hours ago, ShotgunNinja said:

 I'm thinking about just removing the TAC-LS emulation profile, as the Realism one is growing in scope and also as you say TAC-LS just got rebooted.

Now hold on, couldn't you just depreciate "TAC.cfg-disabled" to TAC.cfg.txt? At least it would be there for those that want an example of how to deal with things. Yes? Clearly, no one would expect you to maintain that file.
 

6 hours ago, ShotgunNinja said:

If you open the realism.cfg file, you will notice a big text message at the top that say 'EXPERIMENTAL'  , althrough I don't know what happened in your case.

Oh, you mean the giant ASCII word that said "EXPERIMENTAL"? Nah, never saw it...

-

-

""You can add entertainment to a part with something like this:""
^
|-> Thanks man. I'm going to try and make this all work. I suspect I'll crash and burn by weekend.

Yup.

[ShotgunNinja]

@Fraz86 It's a compromise. I share the same intuition as you about the fact that tracking panels have to be less efficient in term of EC/mass than fixed one. But I can't increase the OXSTAT output because that would make early game moot, and in general I don't want to add more mass tweaks (instead, I want to remove the few remaining). So either I make the outputs proportional to apparent surface area, or I make them proportional to mass. I can't do both, without tweaking all the masses.

I think the best solution is the first you proposed, with special case for OX-STAT:

PART	MASS	EC/s	EC/MASS		NOTE
OX-STAT	0.005	0.08	16		tweaked for early game
OX-STAT-XL	0.02	0.64	32
OX-4W	0.0175	0.48	27.42		tracking
OX-4L	0.0175	0.48	27.42		tracking
SP-W	0.025	0.48	19.2		tracking + re-deployable
SP-L	0.025	0.48	19.2		tracking + re-deployable
GIGANTOR	0.3	6.0	20		tracking + re-deployable

This only change the gigantor output, the hierarchy is maintained (even improved), the only exception is the OX-STAT that is tweaked for early game. We can just assume it is an early-tech panel that has very low efficiency.

[ExiledViking]

An Ox Sat sized pannel 50 x 30 cm is typically about 2kg and 20 watt rated… ( 0.002m  0.02EC)

An Ox Sat XL sized pannel 165 x 80 com is typically about 20kg and 260 watt rated.. ( 0.02m 0.26EC)

[ShotgunNinja]

@ExiledViking Thanks, that totally make sense to me. I'm not an expert, but do these numbers refer to commercial panels, and how better are space-graded panels?

[ExiledViking]

1 minute ago, ShotgunNinja said:

@ExiledViking Thanks, that totally make sense to me. I'm not an expert, but do these numbers refer to commercial panels, and how better are space-graded panels?

Yes those are high end domestic commercial panels. The baby ox-sat is a self supporting generic thing as seen on lamp posts… The larger panels need frames, so there isn't a direct correlation between mass / size and output.

I have no idea if for space solar cells are better in terms of out put per area, maybe marginally… Their frame can be lighter… however deployment mechanisms require multiple motors etc.

Kyocera has a good reference for standard cell based panels. 

[ExiledViking]

Looking at some box sat companies, 8.2 x 33 cm 7 cell panel for 8.5w and 132 grms. So for an Ox sat XL sized panel 0.006m 0.38EC without a frame.

I think these are ideal parameters as opposed to the real world I posted above, further, in space panels degrade. There was a good article on the ISS arrays but I can't find it when I need it…  

[ShotgunNinja]

@ExiledViking Thanks, wow huge difference for space-graded ones. That number is also very near to the stock values, impressive.

 About degrading panels, there is an unused 'time curve' feature in the game code, I think SQUAD at some point considered making them degrade over time.

[SCE2AUX2]

This mod is outstanding, very RAM friendly and comprehensive.   I apologize if this has been mentioned before, but there appears to be a conflict with this mod and the fuel mods such as Real Fuels and Modular Fuel tanks.

What will happen is that RF and/or MFT will occupy the same slot on the capsule window, effectively cutting out food and oxygen, replacing it with hydrazine - or whatever.

Is there a workaround you know of?  Obviously Kerbalism's features are more important, but having a variety of fuels to play with would be a pleasant bonus.

Thanks!