[1.3.0] Kerbalism v1.2.9

[New Horizons]

What do you think about allowing high scrubber/recycling levels by engineers only? This would give those perfections a more prominent role.

Edited July 31, 2016 by New Horizons

[DarkonZ]

Does anyone use Kerbalism and Persistent Rotation? If so, can you confirm these two mods now play nice together? Back in the early days of Kerbalism and PR these two mods just didn't work together at all. Killed Kerbals in the background they did. As far as I can currently tell, these two mods now seem to work. But I'd feel better if I had some confirmation. PR is a big deal for me cuz I can't get past why Kerbals are too dumb to rotate the ship and/or panels towards the sun to keep themselves alive.

While I'm at it, is there a way to get scrubbers/recyclers to output more then a 1:1 ratio? As an example, I want to take .5 waste and output 1.5 food every hour (interval). If so, what would those rates and ratios look like. I'm miffed, and I don't see a way to easily figure this out on my own. Any help appreciated.

Can the profile config files be altered with MM like any other config? For example, lets say I want to tweak the realism profile rule for oxygen that defines 'waste_buffer = 45'. Is this possible? Could I use @waste_buffer = 2 somewhere else to make that change?. This stupid question just came off the top of my head... Shesh.

[ShotgunNinja]

@DarkonZ About PR: I don't know. Scrubbers and recyclers have a 'waste_ratio' property you can set in the module config. Likewise, there is a 'waste_ratio' property in the rules. For the last question: yes, rules can be changed by MM patches  just like any other config node, like this:

@Rule[Food]
{
  %waste_buffer = 2
}

 

@TonyC You can disable the changes to the stock solar panels by removing the file /Patches/tweaks/EnergyTweaks.cfg

 

@raxo2222 There is already Cosmic radiation. Solar radiation in the visible and infrared spectrum is also calculated (the solar flux that is used for the panels and for temperature). More high frequency solar radiation is represented by the Solar Storm mechanic instead.

[raxo2222]

4 minutes ago, ShotgunNinja said:

@DarkonZ About PR: I don't know. Scrubbers and recyclers have a 'waste_ratio' property you can set in the module config. Likewise, there is a 'waste_ratio' property in the rules. For the last question: yes, rules can be changed by MM patches  just like any other config node, like this:

@Rule[Food]
{
  %waste_buffer = 2
}

 

@TonyC You can disable the changes to the stock solar panels by removing the file /Patches/tweaks/EnergyTweaks.cfg

 

@raxo2222 There is already Cosmic radiation. Solar radiation in the visible and infrared spectrum is also calculated (the solar flux that is used for the panels and for temperature). More high frequency solar radiation is represented by the Solar Storm mechanic instead.

Well but sun emits radiation in whole EM spectrum.

Also on wiki it is described as background radiation from galaxy.

So there should be basic stellar radiation even if sun is calm.

[ShotgunNinja]

@raxo2222 Maybe one day I'll do a full spectrum simulation of everything. But consider this: the sun output in the x-ray and gamma frequencies is trascurable (if compared with the radiation from cosmic rays), made exception for coronal mass ejection events (and other kind of emission events, all represented by the solar storm mechanic). So even if I implemented what you call 'stellar radiation' the effect will not be noticeable.

Edited July 31, 2016 by ShotgunNinja

[raxo2222]

15 minutes ago, ShotgunNinja said:

@raxo2222 Maybe one day I'll do a full spectrum simulation of everything. But consider this: the sun output in the x-ray and gamma frequencies is trascurable (if compared with the radiation from cosmic rays), made exception for coronal mass ejection events (and other kind of emission events, all represented by the solar storm mechanic). So even if I implemented what you call 'stellar radiation' the effect will not be noticeable.

So there is no difference if I have base on Mercury or Pluto when sun is calm, not counting visible light and lower photon energies.

[ShotgunNinja]

@raxo2222 Practically, the output is so small it may be considered zero. And at that point it is zero everywhere.

Edited July 31, 2016 by ShotgunNinja

[crapstar]

@DarkonZ @ShotgunNinjaPersistent rotation and Kerbalism(using v1.0.8) work together just fine. Thanks.

[baldamundo]

Does the background processing bit cause problems with other mods that do the same thing like TAC-LS?

[Arivald Ha'gel]

I'm getting NaN's on Oxygen/Energy when using Kerbalism.

Currently I do have a save that ALWAYS generate this problem, and even when it's corrected by hand in the save file, it goes once again in just a few seconds.
I'm using Kerbalism 1.0.8 and quite a bunch of other mods, Interstellar and RealFuels included.

This problem is currently making me unable to continue my game so...

Edited July 31, 2016 by Arivald Ha'gel

[ShotgunNinja]

@Arivald Ha'gel Could you send me that savegame and the log?

[Arivald Ha'gel]

There's nothing in the logs, or should I enable them somehow to be more verbose?

Savegame is quite big, 30MiB. Where should I post it? Or perhaps should I only send you specific vessel for which I do have this problem?

[ShotgunNinja]

@Arivald Ha'gel Send the log too, it may be useful. I need the full save to do some tests. You could compress both using ZIP (that would reduce the size considerably as they are both text), then use something like filedropper and post the link here (or send me a PM).

[Arivald Ha'gel]

I have sent you link to save file before, after and log file.

I currently see 3 problems:
1. Electricity/Oxygen goes to NaN.
2. Some of my Satellites don't update electricity correctly. Long Term Orbital sometimes informs me that electricity is running out (while being on sunny side of Kerbin)
3. Possibly it conflicts with Orbital Decay since the same file that I gave you can "warp" Minmus Orbit Vessel to >2Gm away from Kerbin

[Kerbos]

16 hours ago, DarkonZ said:

Go here: https://github.com/Skaxly01/Kerbalism_KPBS  and check out some of my Realism patch files (Only two?). They're rather simple and straightforward and should give you some ideas on how to do what you want.

The second one that adds the extra items was really useful, manage to finally understand how to call resources (name = ). Thank you so much. Still need to understand what's the difference between @ and !.

[ShotgunNinja]

@Kerbos '@' edit an existing node, or an existing field (if it exist)

'%' create or edit a node, or a field (if it doen't exist, it create it)

'!' delete a node or a field

[Kerbos]

@ShotgunNinja Thx, that explains a lot of weird behaviors on my game (deleting nodes, not good).

Also while I'm here, my log output a lot of these lines after the 1.0.8 update, I'm I correct to think that the Alarm Clock is not working properly with the background simulation or it has something to do with my clusterf*** designs for probes? btw no fps was harmed

Spoiler

[LOG 04:43:58.805] Updating vessel voxel for ComSat II
[LOG 04:43:58.962] Std dev for smoothing: 3 voxel total vol: 5.80364057089341 filled vol: 1.39427099903602

[LOG 04:44:00.704] 7/31/2016 4:44:00 AM,KerbalAlarmClock,Attempting to add Node
[LOG 04:44:03.725] 7/31/2016 4:44:03 AM,KerbalAlarmClock,Attempting to add Node
[LOG 04:44:13.164] Look rotation viewing vector is zero
[LOG 04:44:13.164] Look rotation viewing vector is zero
[LOG 04:44:13.164] Look rotation viewing vector is zero
[LOG 04:44:13.165] Look rotation viewing vector is zero
[LOG 04:44:13.165] Look rotation viewing vector is zero

 

Edited July 31, 2016 by Kerbos

[ShotgunNinja]

@Kerbos There is nothing about Kerbalism in that log. Also I'm not touching the camera viewing vector in any way, so I doubt it is related in any way to the background simulation.

[Kerbos]

Just now, ShotgunNinja said:

@Kerbos There is nothing about Kerbalism in that log. Also I'm not touching the camera viewing vector in any way, so I doubt it is related in any way to the background simulation.

Then it's something with my probes, thx for taking the time, I'm out!

Cheers!

[baldamundo]

On 18/04/2016 at 4:44 AM, ShotgunNinja said:

The signal mechanic is disabled automatically if you have RemoteTech or AntennaRange installed, and
  the malfunction mechanic do the same if you have DangIt.

Doesn't Kerbalism's malfunction mechanic allow things to break while not in focus, whereas DangIt only breaks during a flight? Is there a way of having both enabled?

[ShotgunNinja]

@baldamundo Yes malfunctions also happen on unfocused vessels. I disable that system when DangIt is detected because I assume the player doesn't want both, and running both together is untested, and unsupported. Is technically possible to override this behaviour, but it's quite an involved process: you need to edit System.cfg and Malfunction.cfg in Kerbalism/Patches directory, and remove all occurrences of the string '!DangIt' that you find in NEEDS filters.

[Arivald Ha'gel]

Quote

Ok, let me explain.

1) This mod don't simulate EC consumption of anything related to RemoteTech in background.

2) Crap/CO2 are used by the Default profile. I'm only using CRP definitions in the Realism profile, that use CarbonDioxide/Waste instead. You don't see the waste resources in pods in the MM patch because they are added from code based on the rules the user choose to use, then hidden.

3) Oxygen amount may get NaN because the scrubber see ElectricCharge NaN, possibly set by another mod.

4) You say my test is incorrect, but then also that:

9 hours ago, Arivald Ha'gel said:

No issue with NaNs for some time

Emphasis mine. So something else may set NaN amounts of EC. I believe that OrbitalDecay can consume EC in background for station keeping. At least consider that a possibility.

Ok Then. Once again, since you don't answer my question, and you're constantly repeating info that I know:

1. I know that it doesn't. But is there a purpose in NOT simulating RemoteTech other than being stubborn to just not simulate it?
2. (repeated question) Then shouldn't you also use CarbonDioxide/Waste in Default profile? CarbonDioxide/Waste are in CommunityResourcePack, CO2/Crap is not. Also User doesn't choose the profile, you create default profile, it should not be "hidden".
3,4. No other mod have background sim. And as I already explained without Kerbalism, and with parts/patches I can use this save without any problems. Have you did the same? Orbital Decay only uses selected fuel. EC usage is not simulated.
5. (not really new question, repeated) Remember that I said that EC generation was not simulated on one of my Vessels (particularily Long Term Orbital), but use of EC was simulated. You also haven't answered to that question.
6. (not really new question, repeated) I asked about why EC generation potential is decreased by 66%-75% but RemoteTech antenna EC usage is not. Should you really decrease EC generation potential if it's already well defined by RealFuel EC definition and RemoteTech?

It's not easy to reproduce this issue, I needed more than 1 month worth of game time to step on it (twice) already. But first time was resolved with few hours old save file: I did things differently and it passed.
You should understand that it's not easy to continue playing with one mod deleted. Especially so since I really like Radiation Belts simulation, Cosmic Radiation, Space Weather, Quality of Life, Science Tweaks, this particular idea of Malfunctions (I hope they're even more prominent in radiation belts), and I adore your gravity ring. But if it won't allow me to move on, I'll remove it from my install.

[Kerbos]

@Arivald Ha'gel dude take a chill pill, dunno about the NaN problem, but I think I can clarify the Remote Tech thing for you.

I also loved that mod, never played without it, and sacrifice it for 2 good reasons, first u can't really ask a mod that also provides some sort of antenna thingy to override itself or even work with another mod that gives the same thing, the auto-disable as it is right now is a very rare bonus, hell it was a surprise to me when I found out that kerbalism disabled itself to allow RT, other big mods plainly eat the smaller mods alive forcing them to bend to their will and not the other way around, and that takes to reason 2, asking him to simulate background process for a completely different mod is a mixture between rude and nonsensical.

Put it this way, what about I ask you to take care of my family? You gotta buy everything mate, kids grow and those clothes won't fit, they need new ones! It's not a one time paycheck, you gotta keep updating for my family, not yours, mine!

PS: Almost forgot, EC is overpowered, I've made myself the same question about the decreased rate, that's how it hit me, in real life solar panels are not as efficient as kerbal's solar panels, my guess the reduction came because of that, and tbh I like it, my ships have been forced to become more real-like, no more 10 solar panels for 1 humongous station

Edited August 1, 2016 by Kerbos

[Arivald Ha'gel]

1 hour ago, Kerbos said:

@Arivald Ha'gel dude take a chill pill, dunno about the NaN problem, but I think I can clarify the Remote Tech thing for you.

I also loved that mod, never played without it, and sacrifice it for 2 good reasons, first u can't really ask a mod that also provides some sort of antenna thingy to override itself or even work with another mod that gives the same thing, the auto-disable as it is right now is a very rare bonus, hell it was a surprise to me when I found out that kerbalism disabled itself to allow RT, other big mods plainly eat the smaller mods alive forcing them to bend to their will and not the other way around, and that takes to reason 2, asking him to simulate background process for a completely different mod is a mixture between rude and nonsensical.

Put it this way, what about I ask you to take care of my family? You gotta buy everything mate, kids grow and those clothes won't fit, they need new ones! It's not a one time paycheck, you gotta keep updating for my family, not yours, mine!

PS: Almost forgot, EC is overpowered, I've made myself the same question about the decreased rate, that's how it hit me, in real life solar panels are not as efficient as kerbal's solar panels, my guess the reduction came because of that, and tbh I like it, my ships have been forced to become more real-like, no more 10 solar panels for 1 humongous station

1. I'm chilled, since you missed my question. I asked for a purpose in NOT simulating something. I haven't really said that I want it NOW. You have provided some explanation. My previous conversation partner didn't - even when I asked several time for it.

2. Overpowered Solar Panels. Cool... but I believe that EC requirements for RT should be lowered to. I'm pretty sure that I shouldn't need several panels each several meters long to power a single antenna... since RT eats EC constantly (not just during Science transmission/relaying). First directional antenna (that reached up to Minmus), eats 48EC/min. That's 0.8/s. That's quite a lot considering. Also keep in mind that EC requirements for: lights, active radiators, wheels, science lab are decreased by 75% (one can clearly see it in https://github.com/ShotgunNinja/Kerbalism/blob/master/GameData/Kerbalism/Patches/tweaks/EnergyTweaks.cfg ). Alternator output is decreased by 75%. And since I see configs to include !RemoteTech, why shouldn't we decrease amount of EC used by RT antennas? (or not to decrease EC requirements etc, for everything else.). Currently everything (except RT requirements) is just scaled down, everything is 66%-75% lower in EC output/input. So it really doesn't change anything, since it never said what 1 EC is... is it 1KW, or 1MW or 1W or 5.6546456W? Probably it's just rescale for scrubber/climate control EC requirements to be more inline... so why shouldn't we multiply then by 4? Less config rules, less maintenance.

Edited August 1, 2016 by Arivald Ha'gel
Just making it clearer.

[brusura]

@ShotgunNinja every new vessel I launch keep saying I have no connection, even tried a single probe with an antenna same result with a new sandbox game I have no problem, in my original game I was just building the 10th unmanned launch for the base on the mun...

here is the log but I can not see anything strange, do you want same game also?

 

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B4kd548FeSEpYklieVVtcXJpZTQ/view?usp=sharing

UPDATE: I have restart KSP no luck, then I have restarted again and warped till day on kerbin to try launch again and now works, I am a bit confused .-.

Edited August 1, 2016 by brusura