Ultimate Spacecraft Hull

[KAL 9000]

This is my idea for the best spacecraft hull EVER for manned spacecraft, in my opinion. It's my design, with multiple layers. Here's the layout:

Outer Layer / Layer 1: Aluminum "skin", outermost layer

Layer 2: Meteroite shielding, possibly that foam thing they developed a couple years ago?

Layer 3: Lead radiation shielding

Layer 4: Main structural layer, made out of a titanium-steel alloy 

Layer 5: Carbon fiber weave, supports Layer 4 

Layer 6: Thermal control, heaters and coolant pipes go through this layer 

Layer 7: Electricity and data, power and fiber optic cables run through here 

Layer 8: Equipment, microcontrollers, coolant pumps, and other machinery necessary for the hull live here 

Layer 9: Backup structure, same as Layer 4 but less thick 

Layer 10: Aluminum "skin"

Inner Layer / Layer 11: Carpet/foam for crew comfort, innermost layer 

Thickness (Total): 3.7 feet

[Spaceception]

10 minutes ago, KAL 9000 said:

This is my idea for the best spacecraft hull EVER for manned spacecraft, in my opinion. It's my design, with multiple layers. Here's the layout:

Outer Layer / Layer 1: Aluminum "skin", outermost layer

Layer 2: Meteroite shielding, possibly that foam thing they developed a couple years ago?

Layer 3: Lead radiation shielding

Layer 4: Main structural layer, made out of a titanium-steel alloy 

Layer 5: Carbon fiber weave, supports Layer 4 

Layer 6: Thermal control, heaters and coolant pipes go through this layer 

Layer 7: Electricity and data, power and fiber optic cables run through here 

Layer 8: Equipment, microcontrollers, coolant pumps, and other machinery necessary for the hull live here 

Layer 9: Backup structure, same as Layer 4 but less thick 

Layer 10: Aluminum "skin"

Inner Layer / Layer 11: Carpet/foam for crew comfort, innermost layer 

Thickness (Total): 3.7 feet

I don't think it's thick enough, maybe double, or even triple it and that would be a GREAT spacecraft hull, also, the outermost skin could be Modumetal instead, as it's very lightweight, and stronger than steel, but it does seem pretty great

[kunok]

15 minutes ago, KAL 9000 said:

Thickness (Total): 3.7 feet

Are you seriously proposing a hull thicker than a meter????? (http://www.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=3.7+feet+)

[kerbiloid]

Being hidden 200 m below the ground surface, such hull would provide almost absolute protection.

[insert_name]

I can sum up all the problems with this in one word: mass

[Kryten]

Most hazardous radiation in space is charged particles, not EM. Lead doesn't do much to that, and could make it more dangerous through secondary X-ray production (bremsstrahlung).

[KAL 9000]

10 minutes ago, Kryten said:

Most hazardous radiation in space is charged particles, not EM. Lead doesn't do much to that, and could make it more dangerous through secondary X-ray production (bremsstrahlung).

What stops charged particles?

18 minutes ago, insert_name said:

I can sum up all the problems with this in one word: mass

For spacecraft like Hermes from The Martian, which are built in orbit.

[Kryten]

3 minutes ago, KAL 9000 said:

What stops charged particles?

Light stuff with lots of hydrogen; water, many plastics, et.c.

4 minutes ago, KAL 9000 said:

For spacecraft like Hermes from The Martian, which are built in orbit.

You still need to get all that mass orbit, and move it around once you're there.

[Shpaget]

Sounds like a General Products hull, only not so good.

[cubinator]

3 hours ago, KAL 9000 said:

Lead

How much lead do you need? That stuff is heavy.

[PB666]

3 hours ago, Spaceception said:

I don't think it's thick enough, maybe double, or even triple it and that would be a GREAT spacecraft hull, also, the outermost skin could be Modumetal instead, as it's very lightweight, and stronger than steel, but it does seem pretty great

to fully stop cosmic radiation you need a spacing between outer in inner hull, preferable several thin layers of dense material, filled with insulation impregnated with boron and non-gamma radiation absorbent. The problem with cosmic radiation is that it forms a cascade, the initial impact causes a number of particles to exist and this process can occur through random relativistic decay. So you need space for the spontaneous decay to happen and then adsorption of the lower energy particles.

[KSK]

4 hours ago, Spaceception said:

5 hours ago, KAL 9000 said:

This is my idea for the best spacecraft hull EVER for manned spacecraft, in my opinion. It's my design, with multiple layers. Here's the layout:

Outer Layer / Layer 1: Aluminum "skin", outermost layer

Layer 2: Meteroite shielding, possibly that foam thing they developed a couple years ago?

Layer 3: Lead radiation shielding

Layer 4: Main structural layer, made out of a titanium-steel alloy 

Layer 5: Carbon fiber weave, supports Layer 4 

Layer 6: Thermal control, heaters and coolant pipes go through this layer 

Layer 7: Electricity and data, power and fiber optic cables run through here 

Layer 8: Equipment, microcontrollers, coolant pumps, and other machinery necessary for the hull live here 

Layer 9: Backup structure, same as Layer 4 but less thick 

Layer 10: Aluminum "skin"

Inner Layer / Layer 11: Carpet/foam for crew comfort, innermost layer 

Thickness (Total): 3.7 feet

 

OK, some serious questions then.

Layer 10 - why? I can see the justification for an outer aluminium skin to assist with thermal control but why bother on the inside, especially if you're just covering it in carpet anyway? 

Layer 8 - why? Why are you building all this into the hull? Is there enough of this equipment to justify a whole hull layer?

Layers 6 and 7 - why not combine these? No need to split them into two layers.

Layers 4 and 5 appear to be redundant in that only one is required for structural strength. If you're going for a metal hull, why titanium steel instead of a lighter aluminium based alloy?

Layer 3 - too heavy and likely to be so for some time until we develop launch systems with sufficient capacity that we can afford not to care so much about mass savings.

Sorry - I'm struggling to see this as the best hull ever.

[wumpus]

Better Hull #1:

Inner layer: carbon fiber (or any other basic rocket surface good to go to LEO).

main layer: broken up asteroids.  Maybe welded into a rocket shape, maybe not.  Added in orbit (or higher).  Fairly wide (could be similar to your 1m wide, could even be much more).

Outer layer: fiberglass made to hold the main layer in, might involve an aluminum net.

This hull should help stop radiation, and have some resistance to high speed impacts (well paint chips such as recently hit the ISS windows).  It would unfortunately have mass, which wouldn't interfere with traveling the interplanetary superhighway, but would certainly interfere with the normal Hohmann transfers.  Note that this only makes sense for ships that somehow require 1m wide hulls.  Otherwise forget about it (unless you were only planning on the interplanetary superhighway and already mining asteroids by dragging them to Earth orbit).

[magnemoe]

An water layer help a lot against radiation, if hull is shaped correctly say you have an an air or vacuum layer between the water and inner hull it would also make very good armor. 
You want the gap to avoid the shock wave in the water to damage the inner hull. 
Having an water walled storm cellar is an common design on many interplanetary ship ideas 

[insert_name]

4 hours ago, wumpus said:

Better Hull #1:

Inner layer: carbon fiber (or any other basic rocket surface good to go to LEO).

main layer: broken up asteroids.  Maybe welded into a rocket shape, maybe not.  Added in orbit (or higher).  Fairly wide (could be similar to your 1m wide, could even be much more).

Outer layer: fiberglass made to hold the main layer in, might involve an aluminum net.

This hull should help stop radiation, and have some resistance to high speed impacts (well paint chips such as recently hit the ISS windows).  It would unfortunately have mass, which wouldn't interfere with traveling the interplanetary superhighway, but would certainly interfere with the normal Hohmann transfers.  Note that this only makes sense for ships that somehow require 1m wide hulls.  Otherwise forget about it (unless you were only planning on the interplanetary superhighway and already mining asteroids by dragging them to Earth orbit).

a hull that lacks a consistent density and is made of rubble and loose material. brilliant

[kerbiloid]

9 hours ago, Shpaget said:

Sounds like a General Products hull, only not so good.

Just not transparent.

13 hours ago, KAL 9000 said:

Layer 10: Aluminum "skin"

 

9 hours ago, KSK said:

Outer Layer / Layer 1: Aluminum "skin", outermost layer

Aluminium is for losers. Titanium rules.

[p1t1o]

Honestly I expect one likely hull to be:

Whipple shield

Some kind of other outer skin material

some kind of strongish membrane

about 50 megatons of water

some kind of stronginsh membrane

Inside of ship

 

That'll protect you from everything from charged particles to hard EM to hypervelocity solids.

Plus you can grow all your food/oxygen in there and recycle your...mulch.

Oh and if you want to be really super waste-less its also reaction mass.

[kerbiloid]

And a layer of vacuum. This will supress shockwave and sounds. Also its a heat insulator.

[KAL 9000]

15 hours ago, KSK said:

OK, some serious questions then.

Layer 10 - why? I can see the justification for an outer aluminium skin to assist with thermal control but why bother on the inside, especially if you're just covering it in carpet anyway? 

Layer 8 - why? Why are you building all this into the hull? Is there enough of this equipment to justify a whole hull layer?

Layers 6 and 7 - why not combine these? No need to split them into two layers.

Layers 4 and 5 appear to be redundant in that only one is required for structural strength. If you're going for a metal hull, why titanium steel instead of a lighter aluminium based alloy?

Layer 3 - too heavy and likely to be so for some time until we develop launch systems with sufficient capacity that we can afford not to care so much about mass savings.

Sorry - I'm struggling to see this as the best hull ever.

Layer 10 - Probably unnecessary, should get rid of it

Layer 8 - It's the equipment necessary to keep thermal control running.

Layers 4 & 5 - Redundancy is usually good if something breaks 

Layer 3 - You're right, I should probably change it to water or something like that

Edited May 17, 2016 by KAL 9000

[Scotius]

I'm sure it would be a great hull. Now come up with super-awesome engines required to move all this stuff around with half-decent acceleration

[PB666]

Super easy hull design. 

Find asteroid, dig hole the crossectional profile of ship, put ship in hole, put solar panel on asteroid. Need to move just use the displaced material as mass ejecta.

Super crazy space sport, demolition derby with asteroid ships. 

[p1t1o]

15 minutes ago, PB666 said:

Super crazy space sport, demolition derby with asteroid ships. 

[read in an enthusiastic sports commentator voice]

"And rock #3 has taken a huuuge sideswipe that has sent him careening INto the Earth's atmosphere, ending ALL human civilisation! This IS going to definitely hurt their chances at the championship level! Carl?"

"Yes I am getting confirmation from the umpires that all of humanity is crying out into the void Steve, this is certainly, a black day, for team Red Bull."

 

hehueheuheue 

[wumpus]

10 hours ago, insert_name said:

a hull that lacks a consistent density and is made of rubble and loose material. brilliant

Yup.  You might want to balance it (like a car tire) on roughly 6 different axis it you want.  You need mass to block most radiation and mass costs >$1000/kg delivered from Earth and dropping terribly slowly.  You can deliver arbitrary amounts from the asteroid belt (presumably putting slag on the hull).  Note that it might be possible to get the asteroid miners to mold the slag into bricks or somewhat interlocking blocks.  Or just use something closer to gravel that won't shift after you balance it.  Finally, note that pressing either molten asteroid iron or slag through a sieve should give regular spherical material, and act exactly like an old fashioned shot tower.  In the end, I suspect "slag shot" would be the preferred "loose" (although packed and help tight) material.

Mainly it comes down to the question of whether or not you need the extra mass.  You also only need it between the crew and the Sun and possibly between the crew and a NERVA or similar radiating engine (you also need strength/armor/projectile protection prograde and in the direction of the elliptic.  "Slag shot" layered between forged asteroid plate are likely your best armor (if such is even possible).

[Thor Wotansen]

I think the most feasible long range spaceship will be a hollowed out asteroid, unless we develop force fields for the purpose of casting complex structures.  As has been previously stated, asteroids provide some of the best shielding and have the added benefit of already being in space.  Sure they're heavy and all but by the time we actually get around to it we will probably have better high ISP engines for dedicated space travel.

[pincushionman]

On May 17, 2016 at 1:05 AM, kerbiloid said:

Aluminium is for losers. Titanium rules.

Given the thickness of this proposed hull, the weight penalty of the metal skins is pretty meaningless; go with steel because it's going to be way cheaper.