[1.12.x] TAC - Life Support v0.18.0 - Release 19th Sep 2021

[danfarnsy]

Politas created the necessary configs, but they're waiting for RoverDude to release a version of CRP he says is compatible with KSP 1.2.1. Now it's just a dependency versioning issue and the peculiarities of how CKAN works (or in this case, doesn't work). They're clearly aware of the issue, and I wouldn't ping either of them. 

Previous advice still stands: Manually install for now.

Edited November 12, 2016 by danfarnsy

[DrScarlett]

Waiting for CRP - makes sense. Thank you for the heads-up. Meanwhile my manual installation is running fine.

[edrobotguy]

On 11/6/2016 at 4:11 PM, JPLRepo said:

That's ok yep. I mentioned it in the post for the update version, but I have also now updated the Changelog in the OP as well.
For everyone else who missed it:
Due to this and other internal changes all vessels will appear as PreLaunch after upgrading on existing saves. All you have to do is switch to each vessel for TACLS to update and start tracking them again. Sorry about that but couldn't be avoided. 

One vessel that did not appear as PreLaunch for me was "Dodrin's Wreckage", a rescue mission.  That countdown timer started immediately, even though I haven't been within 2250 meters of him.  Poor Dodrin, stuck in a 6000 km retrograde orbit.  I have a rescue vessel on the way, but he's gonna suffocate before I get there.  Well, he would if I hadn't reverted to an earlier version of TACLS.  Sorry, no logs, as reversion to an earlier game state wiped those out.

[kyklop]

I count similar experience: MC give my at the same time  two "rescue mission" - one on Kerbin low orbit, second on Mun high retrograde orbit with high inclination.

Mission to Kerbin low orbit was OK.

But for the mission of the Mun high retrograde orbit countdown of oxygen, food and water has begun immediately. The numbers werered in all time of the operation, the last value was minus two days and some seconds. Kerby was killed during the final approach of rescue vessels. Mission failed...  somehow as "died by air toxicity".

-----------------------------------------------

Otherwise: Thank the author for this mod. Provides entertainment while playing and also inspired me to couple my own creation.

[Deimos Rast]

Question (which I may have already asked, but I can't remember):

What's the advantage for me to  using TacGenericConverter over ModuleResourceConverter?

My initial assumption is some sort of background processing (now or in the future). My situation is that I'm making some patches to rebalance the life support recyclers in Universal Storage (by directly referencing the ratios in the TACLS recyclers, which I can do now much more easily, thank you), and I'm wondering if I should just throw in an "@name = TacGenericConverter" and make it a full conversion, since it's literally a one line difference at this point.

Also, is that module pretty much done seeing radical changes? Obviously, you can't predict what the future holds and so on (the stock standard could radically change itself for example), but as of now, do you foresee anything? I'd rather not write a bunch of patches using it, then a month later have to rewrite them all.

Lastly, how would you feel about a fuelswitching patch for the LifeSupport/Waste containers? Couple that with TweakScale and you could really downsize the part count, which I know some have asked for in the past. I made such a patch a while back, and you can have it if you want it.

[JPLRepo]

3 minutes ago, Deimos Rast said:

Question (which I may have already asked, but I can't remember):

What's the advantage for me to  using TacGenericConverter over ModuleResourceConverter?

My initial assumption is some sort of background processing (now or in the future). My situation is that I'm making some patches to rebalance the life support recyclers in Universal Storage (by directly referencing the ratios in the TACLS recyclers, which I can do now much more easily, thank you), and I'm wondering if I should just throw in an "@name = TacGenericConverter" and make it a full conversion, since it's literally a one line difference at this point.

Also, is that module pretty much done seeing radical changes? Obviously, you can't predict what the future holds and so on (the stock standard could radically change itself for example), but as of now, do you foresee anything? I'd rather not write a bunch of patches using it, then a month later have to rewrite them all.

Lastly, how would you feel about a fuelswitching patch for the LifeSupport/Waste containers? Couple that with TweakScale and you could really downsize the part count, which I know some have asked for in the past. I made such a patch a while back, and you can have it if you want it.

TacGenericConverter has a change I haven't released yet to re-implement it's conversionRate field.
https://github.com/KSP-RO/TacLifeSupport/issues/57
and yes, future background processing is also on the todo list.
https://github.com/KSP-RO/TacLifeSupport/issues/46
The use of other mods to reduce parts is also being considered.
https://github.com/KSP-RO/TacLifeSupport/issues/12

[Deimos Rast]

9 minutes ago, JPLRepo said:

TacGenericConverter has a change I haven't released yet to re-implement it's conversionRate field.
https://github.com/KSP-RO/TacLifeSupport/issues/57
and yes, future background processing is also on the todo list.
https://github.com/KSP-RO/TacLifeSupport/issues/46
The use of other mods to reduce parts is also being considered.
https://github.com/KSP-RO/TacLifeSupport/issues/12

Ah, the requiresAtmo and conversionRate sound handy.

To be clear, I have no issue with the part count. What I was saying is I made a patch that uses fuel switching (using either IFS/Firespitter) to switch around a combo of Mixed/Food/Water/Oxygen for LifeSupport containers or Mixed/Waste/WasteWater/CarbonDioxide for Waste Containers. I wasn't suggesting it be an official policy to implement fuel/mesh switching; just an optional extra if people wanted.

[Oneskelis]

So I have a mechanics question,  how does one complete rescue missions with this mod installed?

Kerbals run out of supplies before I can get to them,  and die as soon as I get within rendezvous range.... 

[James3838]

Looking at last merge, looks like an extra check was added for contract kerbals which might not be working as expected:

if (HighLogic.CurrentGame.Mode == Game.Modes.CAREER)
	{
	rescuekerbal = checkContractsForRescue(vslCrew);

  }

Using career mode and don't see the kerbal being marked as recoveryKerbal:

            CrewMemberInfo
            {
                name = Philcas Kerman
                lastUpdate = 405602.88270310732
                lastFood = 405602.88270310732
                lastWater = 405602.88270310732
                vesselName = Philcas' Craft
                vesselId = 34b9d710-374b-44fd-8fea-5b701135cef4
                vesselIsPreLaunch = True
                hibernating = False
                DFFrozen = False
                recoverykerbal = False
                crewType = Unowned
            }

I don't see changes to checkContractsForRescue function, and it appears to be a simple string contains comparison to contract title, which is still correct.

[JPLRepo]

1 hour ago, Oneskelis said:

So I have a mechanics question,  how does one complete rescue missions with this mod installed?

Kerbals run out of supplies before I can get to them,  and die as soon as I get within rendezvous range.... 

Yes there seems to be an issue here, that no one has raised on GitHub.

i have some changes to address this being tested.

 

[Oneskelis]

5 minutes ago, JPLRepo said:

Yes there seems to be an issue here, that no one has raised on GitHub.

i have some changes to address this being tested.

 

Sorry,  I missed that bit in the original post,  I'll be sure to check github next time,  and notify of issues there,  again apologies. 

In the meantime,  does simply changing any existing rescue vessels to "recoverykerbal = true" in the save remedy the issue? 

[JPLRepo]

41 minutes ago, Oneskelis said:

Sorry,  I missed that bit in the original post,  I'll be sure to check github next time,  and notify of issues there,  again apologies. 

In the meantime,  does simply changing any existing rescue vessels to "recoverykerbal = true" in the save remedy the issue? 

Should. If the vessel and kerbal entry have that value set to true.

bit more info. Trying to track down a bug that I think is in stock. You may notice if you switch to a rescue vessel then back to another vessel it will also start tracking the rescue vessel supplies. Hope to have this fixed or a work-around soon.

[Climberfx]

Not working on OS X here. It won't even show icons.

 

Edit:

 

Problem solved. It was installed with CKAN, so the directory and files structure was locked. I changed ownership of all KSP structure to myself and all worked back again.

Edited November 26, 2016 by Climberfx

[gamerscircle]

I have a couple of question which have most likely been well discussed.

I have tested and used TAC and it was simple and I had fun with the estimating, plotting and resupplying.   Does TAC have the ability to 'grow' or is that more of the USI?

Can TAC and USI work together?

The reason I was asking, is that I want to setup a base on "Duna" , so initially sending food and supplies ahead and with the crew along with planned resupplies, but I would like to see if the base can become self-sustaining.

Thanks and again sorry if this has been discussed in detail already

[jmbailey2000]

2 hours ago, gamerscircle said:

I have a couple of question which have most likely been well discussed.

I have tested and used TAC and it was simple and I had fun with the estimating, plotting and resupplying.   Does TAC have the ability to 'grow' or is that more of the USI?

Can TAC and USI work together?

The reason I was asking, is that I want to setup a base on "Duna" , so initially sending food and supplies ahead and with the crew along with planned resupplies, but I would like to see if the base can become self-sustaining.

Thanks and again sorry if this has been discussed in detail already

 

Don't know about USI, but I've used the SETI Greenhouse in the past very successfully with TAC. Because of the constant changes to KSP with 1.1+, I haven't had a chance to reestablish a base but everything looks like it should work.

 

[Bit Fiddler]

just started a rescue mission and ran into the problems others have mentioned that as soon as I take the contract the timer starts ticking on the Kerbal.  this will kill the Kerbal long before I could launch a rescue craft and save them.  however I did notice something interesting.  when I went to the tracking station to look at the vessel I had to work with it would not allow me to select it as I did not "own" it. 

 

 

So the question is could TAC check if the player "owns" a craft, and if not, do not process LS on the kerbals there? 

or optionally:  I also saw a mod that would ensure all rescue missions will get a real crew part.  therefore you do not get a mission to rescue kerbals from a deflated habitat module etc. with no hatches, and therefore no way to rescue them.  would it be possible to do something like this, but ensure the craft actually has basic LS on it?  this mod used a list file that the player could add parts to that are acceptable for rescue missions.  if this was taken 1 step further to be not just a list of parts, but a list of basic craft files.  then you could include some that use the stock parts, and players could make more with mod parts as they see fit.  maybe create a community rescue craft list where these could be posted and compiled into a supporting mod.

[JPLRepo]

On 12/7/2016 at 0:12 PM, gamerscircle said:

I have a couple of question which have most likely been well discussed.

I have tested and used TAC and it was simple and I had fun with the estimating, plotting and resupplying.   Does TAC have the ability to 'grow' or is that more of the USI?

Can TAC and USI work together?

The reason I was asking, is that I want to setup a base on "Duna" , so initially sending food and supplies ahead and with the crew along with planned resupplies, but I would like to see if the base can become self-sustaining.

Thanks and again sorry if this has been discussed in detail already

What USI are you referring to?
If you are talking about USI LS - then that makes no sense at all. There can be only one! Life support.
If you are referring to other USI mods then I believe some? MKS/OKS? have config files and support TAC LS.
But I personally don't use any USI mods. So maybe someone who does can help answer that a bit better.

 

10 hours ago, Bit Fiddler said:

just started a rescue mission and ran into the problems others have mentioned that as soon as I take the contract the timer starts ticking on the Kerbal.  this will kill the Kerbal long before I could launch a rescue craft and save them.  however I did notice something interesting.  when I went to the tracking station to look at the vessel I had to work with it would not allow me to select it as I did not "own" it. 

 

 

So the question is could TAC check if the player "owns" a craft, and if not, do not process LS on the kerbals there? 

or optionally:  I also saw a mod that would ensure all rescue missions will get a real crew part.  therefore you do not get a mission to rescue kerbals from a deflated habitat module etc. with no hatches, and therefore no way to rescue them.  would it be possible to do something like this, but ensure the craft actually has basic LS on it?  this mod used a list file that the player could add parts to that are acceptable for rescue missions.  if this was taken 1 step further to be not just a list of parts, but a list of basic craft files.  then you could include some that use the stock parts, and players could make more with mod parts as they see fit.  maybe create a community rescue craft list where these could be posted and compiled into a supporting mod.

I'm about to fix all of that...

[gamerscircle]

@JPLRepo

The only LS mod I have 'tested' out was the TAC, I liked the simplicity and how it adds some realism to the game.  I know that USI has a ton of mods and that there was a LS mod, so that is what I just started it like the above.

I think you might have answered my question, that the MKS/OKS has TAC configs that I can use.  thanks.

[JPLRepo]

v0.12.7 has been released. It only works on KSP 1.2.2.
If you also use DeepFreeze you need v0.23.2 of that mod as well.
Fixes a whole bunch of stuff. See the changelog in the OP.

I also fully expect that this will break CKAN installs in a bad way. I have raised a request to get that fixed. Expect it to take a day or two to get fixed.

[Gilph]

On 12/6/2016 at 8:12 PM, gamerscircle said:

I have a couple of question which have most likely been well discussed.

I have tested and used TAC and it was simple and I had fun with the estimating, plotting and resupplying.   Does TAC have the ability to 'grow' or is that more of the USI?

Can TAC and USI work together?

The reason I was asking, is that I want to setup a base on "Duna" , so initially sending food and supplies ahead and with the crew along with planned resupplies, but I would like to see if the base can become self-sustaining.

Thanks and again sorry if this has been discussed in detail already

The short answer is yes.  If you follow the USI MKS and USI LS threads, there is discussion of incorporating TACLS into USI in a balanced way and some profiles have been created.

However, I have thought on this for a while. The USI LS is very integrated with all of the other USI parts and does create a very balanced and challenging way to play, For 1.2 I created two new career modes: one with mostly USI only and another with KBPS/TAC.  It's created two different styles of progression, and I switch between them when I need a break.

[gamerscircle]

1 hour ago, Gilph said:

The short answer is yes.  If you follow the USI MKS and USI LS threads, there is discussion of incorporating TACLS into USI in a balanced way and some profiles have been created.

However, I have thought on this for a while. The USI LS is very integrated with all of the other USI parts and does create a very balanced and challenging way to play, For 1.2 I created two new career modes: one with mostly USI only and another with KBPS/TAC.  It's created two different styles of progression, and I switch between them when I need a break.

I suppose, I should just try USI' LS for myself and see.

I really do appreciate all the input, the KSP community is awesome.

[Mark Kerbin]

Is there Any reason why i cant transfer food from one container to another?

I want to resupply my station but for some reason its not letting me transfer food

[Yemo]

17 hours ago, gamerscircle said:

@JPLRepo

The only LS mod I have 'tested' out was the TAC, I liked the simplicity and how it adds some realism to the game.  I know that USI has a ton of mods and that there was a LS mod, so that is what I just started it like the above.

I think you might have answered my question, that the MKS/OKS has TAC configs that I can use.  thanks.

Pathfinder is a station building mod supporting TAC, and not as overly complex as the recent MKS.

 

Oh, and SETIgreenhouse is more like a food recycler for TAC, like the other resource recyclers included in TAC itself. Not for fully self sustaining bases, just streching it for space stations and long range missions.

[JPLRepo]

11 hours ago, Mark Kerbin said:

Is there Any reason why i cant transfer food from one container to another?

I want to resupply my station but for some reason its not letting me transfer food

Transferring food works fine for me.
Bit more info on what you are doing what your vessel looks like, etc.
And possibly a log.
Are you transferring across docking ports and you have crossfeed enabled?

[JPLRepo]

FYI. The 2.5M Sabatier is broken due to a typo in the config file.
I'll do a fix next few days. In the meantime you can add the missing "}" if you are savvy enough.
https://github.com/KSP-RO/TacLifeSupport/issues/62