The v1.2 Hype Train Thread - Prerelease is Out

[Yakuzi]

3 hours ago, HvP said:

Unfortunately, no. They've weaseled their way out of that for some reason. At least that's what it appears from the responses on the latest devnotes thread.

While I agree there could've been a bit more communication about Porkjet's rocket part overhaul (and clearer communication overall), there has been no weaseling. The last time the rocket part overhaul was mentioned was in May (I did a very quick search, so I could be wrong), where Squad specifically stated that the new parts may not make it into 1.2 due to time constraints:

On 31/05/2016 at 10:00 PM, SQUAD said:

Mike has started compiling a list of changes for 1.2, although it’s very uncertain at this point, pride of place is a Unity upgrade to 5.3 or 5.4 to fix the serious crash and wheel issues experienced. In addition we’re looking to include antenna telemetry, planetary weighting of contracts, an overhaul of the exploration contracts, and if we can manage it in time the new rocket parts that Chris (Porkjet) has been working on.

 

The latest devnotes only mention that some engine parts Porkjet was working on will be made available for download... either involving one of the part sets pictured below, or something else altogether (we just don't know what... this includes everyone and but Squad):

 

It'd be great if @SQUAD or @Porkjet could shine some light on exactly which parts will be made available and whether they will be added to a future version of KSP... as the devnotes were cryptic to say the least.

 

Edited September 7, 2016 by Yakuzi

[HvP]

26 minutes ago, Yakuzi said:

While I agree there could've been a bit more communication about Porkjet's rocket part overhaul (and clearer communication overall), there has been no weaseling. The last time the rocket part overhaul was mentioned was in May (I did a very quick search, so I could be wrong), where Squad specifically stated that the new parts may not make it into 1.2 due to time constraints:

 

The latest devnotes only mention that some engine parts Porkjet was working on will be made available for download... either involving one of the part sets pictured below, or something else altogether (we just don't know what... this includes everyone and but Squad):

@SQUAD or @Porkjet could shine some light on exactly which parts will be made available and whether they will be added to a future version of KSP... as were cryptic to say the least.

Weaseling is commonly defined as being intentionally ambiguous, usually as a deflection. Squad started as a marketing company. Weaseling is marketing 101. Words such as "may" , "could" , and "might" are called weasel words for a reason. Maybe it's just my cynical nature but I do not expect those redesigns without a positive statement to affirm that they are included. We can all just wait and see.

My assumption that they definitely weren't included follows from this post from Arsonide responding to the direct question "Will Porkjet's Revamped Rocket Parts be made stock? If the answer is not yes then it must be No," to which his response was, "Unfortunately these things are not this binary. Right now the answer is "Not in 1.2", as originally stated. In the meantime the community will have access to the assets."

[Whirligig Girl]

8 hours ago, 5thHorseman said:

Two things:

1. If that is a little deformed, then Antarctica is a little south of the Equator.
2. I actually loaded the game to see what the Mun would look like from that far away, and that is actually how horribly deformed the Mun is when you're that far away and it's in that direction.
3. (bonus!) This is like the wonky Kerbal eyes being way different sizes. I'll never be able to unsee this egg-shaped Mun (and any other planet).

Any 3D video game is going to have deformation along the edges, especially at higher Fields of View. It's related directly to the fact that you can not map a sphere down to a non-deformed 2D shape. The computer screen is of course a 2D rectangle, and the whole visual view is a sort of a sphere. There's got to be deformation.

I said "little" deformed because I didn't want to overstate the issue.

[Whirligig Girl]

3 hours ago, Yakuzi said:

While I agree there could've been a bit more communication about Porkjet's rocket part overhaul (and clearer communication overall), there has been no weaseling. The last time the rocket part overhaul was mentioned was in May (I did a very quick search, so I could be wrong), where Squad specifically stated that the new parts may not make it into 1.2 due to time constraints:

 

The latest devnotes only mention that some engine parts Porkjet was working on will be made available for download... either involving one of the part sets pictured below, or something else altogether (we just don't know what... this includes everyone and but Squad):

 

It'd be great if @SQUAD or @Porkjet could shine some light on exactly which parts will be made available and whether they will be added to a future version of KSP... as the devnotes were cryptic to say the least.

 

Holy crap those are brilliant. Are those the models in fact? They're terrific, and I really hope to see them in 1.2.5 or something. However, only if Poddle, Mainsail, and Skipper are done as well, or it will be far far too dissonant. Those engines were the bad ones, the LV-series were pretty good. I also see a new one in the form of 303 and 15. It's great.

[legoclone09]

Am I the only one that doesn't really like them? I was expecting them to look a lot different. They remind me of KW Rocketry. It's mainly the colors for me, too bright. I like the Thud's color scheme more.

Edited September 8, 2016 by legoclone09

[klgraham1013]

24 minutes ago, legoclone09 said:

Am I the only one that doesn't really like them? I was expecting them to look a lot different. They remind me of KW Rocketry. It's mainly the colors for me, too bright. I like the Thud's color scheme more.

I could do without the yellow numbers.  Otherwise, they're pretty snazzy.

[Whirligig Girl]

29 minutes ago, legoclone09 said:

Am I the only one that doesn't really like them? I was expecting them to look a lot different. They remind me of KW Rocketry. It's mainly the colors for me, too bright. I like the Thud's color scheme more.

They remind me a lot of the Copenhagen Suborbitals rocket engines, which are pretty decent analogues of the "Jeb's Junkyard." They use almost entirely prebuilt parts for their rocket engines, which you could interpret Jeb's Junkyard engines to be made from. They also remind me of the A-4 and A-7 rocket motors. I like them. I do wish I could see what they look like without the extra shaders though.

[AlphaMensae]

I like how that LV-T45 looks a lot like the Atlas LR-105 sustainer engine:

 

Overall, they do look good.  However, that 909 still doesn't fully resemble a high-ISP upper-stage engine like the RL-10; needs a much larger nozzle. And I don't like how the engines still have those wide base plates or tank butts; I wonder if they're supposed to be toggleable on/off?

[GoSlash27]

1 hour ago, GregroxMun said:

I also see a new one in the form of 303 and 15. It's great.

*ears perk*

Goofball- scale engines?? PLEASE let this be a thing!

[Whirligig Girl]

Upon further inspection past the "wow!" factor, there are a few bits of criticism I have for these parts. Not gonna touch the boat-tails, they're pretty good, that's all.

So these appear to be the revamps and additions for the LV-series 1.25m engines, the low tech ones at the start of the tech tree.

First, I have to say that in general I quite like these. I very very much hope that these will make it into the stock game. In fact, I'll go ahead and list everything I do like about them first.

• They look legitimately low tech, and resemble real early rocket engines.
  • The LV-T45 reminds me of the Atlas sustainer engine as well as the A-7 Redstone engine.
  • They don't look junky or futuristic/modern.
  • They don't look too out of place in a more modern setting.
• They tend to look a bit like Copenhagen Suborbitals engines as well.
  • Copenhagen Suborbitals uses pre-made plumbing parts instead of making their own, meaning that their parts are reliable and cheap. 
  • This makes the Jeb's Junkyard comparison easy. The descriptions for engines could be interpreted in this way.
• I love that we have two more LV series engines.
• No tankbutts! Woo!
• I really hope these make it into the game for 1.2.5 or something. In general these are a definite improvement over the current engines...

And now the bad stuff:

• ...but we didn't really need an improvement for these engines.
  • The LV-series for the most part fits in well with the current Porkalike style.
  • The Rockomax parts do not fit in, and they look pretty awful. In my opinion the Rockomax parts should definitely have been prioritized.
  • I still welcome the improvements.
• The reflective shader is a bit disorienting, considering that we don't have it in stock. I want to see what these parts look like with the stock part shader.
• The numbers look wrong somehow. I'm not quite sure what it is, but the super prestine paint coat doesn't look right. Maybe if they looked like they were stenciled on or put on a plaque (like the original models)
• The 909 looks weird, and I'm not sure why. It might look OK when put on a 1.25m rocket tank, but not a 2.5m rocket tank (like many landers do)
• The LV-T45 was meant to be a modified version of the LV-T30, not a completely new engine. I would have made the combustion chambers of the two engines the same, and changed the nozzles. (As well as putting the T45 on thrust vectoring hydraulics)
• I'm really not sure at all what the purpose of the spheres on the LV-303 is.
• One of the things that in the past made Porkjet revamps so great is that the contained some little details that the original part had. Compare the original and new swept wings for example, as well as the detail on the top of the Mk2 fuselages. This is missing from the LV-T engine revamp.

Edited September 8, 2016 by GregroxMun

[Andem]

1 hour ago, legoclone09 said:

Am I the only one that doesn't really like them? I was expecting them to look a lot different. They remind me of KW Rocketry. It's mainly the colors for me, too bright. I like the Thud's color scheme more.

You aren't the only one! As soon as I laid eyes on them I was horrified! The point is to revamp the stock parts, not reinvent the entire visual style of the parts!

[legoclone09]

9 minutes ago, Andem said:

You aren't the only one! As soon as I laid eyes on them I was horrified! The point is to revamp the stock parts, not reinvent the entire visual style of the parts!

Yeah, I don't like the blue-ish gray, I mainly expected Porkalike orange (from the Thud), and the Vector black, with some Mk2 internal gray.

Edited September 8, 2016 by legoclone09

[HebaruSan]

1 hour ago, Laguna said:

that 909 still doesn't fully resemble a high-ISP upper-stage engine like the RL-10; needs a much larger nozzle.

I suppose we can dream that the revamp is delayed because they're still debating whether to make the new nozzle sizes more realistic. I'd like that (and it would be a nice pedagogical tweak, similar to thrust varying by atmospheric pressure), but it would throw a wrench into the balancing of lander construction if the 909 was suddenly too big to fit in the space allowed by the medium landing legs.

[Superfluous J]

I wouldn't be surprised if the delay was to figure out how to handle tankbutts. It almost looks in that image like they're separate parts.

[klgraham1013]

8 hours ago, Andem said:

The point is to revamp the stock parts, not reinvent the entire visual style of the parts!

I disagree.  KSP doesn't really have a consistent art style.  Some parts will need to be redesigned to be consistent with the rest.

[Red Iron Crown]

15 hours ago, Yakuzi said:

The latest devnotes only mention that some engine parts Porkjet was working on will be made available for download... either involving one of the part sets pictured below, or something else altogether (we just don't know what... this includes everyone and but Squad):

Those extensions to the jet engines are already in the game, they can be toggled on in the part's config file.

The new rocket engine models shown won't be in stock 1.2, but Squad is making the art assets available to modders who want to use them. Whether they'll be in some future KSP update or not remains to be seen.

[nosirrbro]

14 hours ago, legoclone09 said:

Am I the only one that doesn't really like them? I was expecting them to look a lot different. They remind me of KW Rocketry. It's mainly the colors for me, too bright. I like the Thud's color scheme more.

No, I really don't like them honestly... As individual rocket engines they're pretty great, but they would look pretty terrible in stock KSP. Having these would be like only half installing Venn's stock revamp, although even that stays more faithful to the original models.

[Andem]

5 hours ago, klgraham1013 said:

I disagree.  KSP doesn't really have a consistent art style.  Some parts will need to be redesigned to be consistent with the rest.

Well duh,I'm not an idiot, but these look like they were ripped from RO or Ven's, or even KW and kerbalized slightly. That looks nothing like stock KSP, or any part of stock KSP.

[Diche Bach]

On 9/7/2016 at 1:30 AM, Srpadget said:

Lots of talk in the last couple weeks about "wheels being fixed".  But very little solid info about what that *means*.  They could tweaked enough to be noticeably less-wonky than they are now, and still not be what a layperson would call "fixed".

I have a very specific focus, to tell the truth.  I actually don't PERSONALLY care much about "wheels" per se--I fly very few planes and I only use rovers for low-speed, local base support (fuel tankers, prospecting, maybe the occasional "collect readings in this area" contract).  So airplane gear and powered wheels are pretty easy to work around, for my playstyle.

I am actually FAR more interested in LANDING LEGS.  Does anyone know if they will once again be a useful option for, y'know, landing on?  Or will the best advice continue to be "fins, rocket nozzles, girders...there are lots of better things to land on"?  Sliding down a long gentle slope on frictionless "landing legs" may be funny ONCE, but it gets old.  And it makes the idea of a permanent base (say, to mine a particularly Ore-rich area) problematic to say the least.

I am still using 1.0.5.  Mostly because of the landing leg issue.

Heh, I landed my first Mun lander recently. Using the mid-sized legs so should've been no problemos (Probodobodyne, 4 command seats, Uni storage quad with four modules attached, a KR-7 dish, few science gizmos, couple .625 hydrazine tanks uptweaked a bit, plus four each of a spherical and a cigar-shaped tanks, RCS thrusters on 30% size girder boom arms, few RCS engines for main thrust). Small two man rover attached on the belly, with an alkaline fuel cell, few solar panels and science gizmos, the tiny rover wheels and frame of about 9 30% size girders . . . so not a super heavy load.

After a few experimental sessions with how to do it, managed to land it with ~1200 of the initial 2500 dV remaining.

I was unfortunate enough to land on a fairly steep slope, probably about 12 to 15-degrees. I immediately noticed this silly slow slide down hill but it eventually came to a halt, though the whole thing was sort of shuddering a bit.

Giddy with delight, I detached my rover and sent one of the pilots to chase it down and board it. One of the scientists joined him.

I binged on the science at the landing site and then left the probe pilot and lead scientist there while the other two went roving around, out to 1.5km from the launch site and then do an arc around about 90 degress at ~1.5km and back to launch site.

After about 10 minutes, I hear this distant explosion. When I tried to bracket-key to nearby vessels, all I get are debris and the flag . . . What the!?

Yep, drive back to the landing site: lander is turned into one piece of debris and the two kerbals left in it are goners.

[XB-70A]

17 hours ago, legoclone09 said:

Am I the only one that doesn't really like them? I was expecting them to look a lot different. They remind me of KW Rocketry. It's mainly the colors for me, too bright. I like the Thud's color scheme more.

I join the family.

The Reliant seems pretty good, a bit like a Viking/Vikas :

And the 303 reminds the Fregat upper stage :

 

But the new Swivel with this...

I don't know, this is not a nozzle, it's a "roll of fat".

 

[legoclone09]

Swivel looks like the Atlas sustainer to me.

[AlphaMensae]

20 hours ago, Laguna said:

3 hours ago, legoclone09 said:

Swivel looks like the Atlas sustainer to me.

Quoted for visibility...that's basically what it looks like.

 

[legoclone09]

3 minutes ago, Laguna said:

Quoted for visibility...that's basically what it looks like.

 

Yeah, that post made it click for me.

[passinglurker]

I thought these hype threads were supposed to be about blind optimism, but Oh my great kraken some of you guys are being down right picky and should be ashamed of yourselves.

This is why we haven't been getting any official teaser pics because it seems like a good half of you take whatever porkjet makes and throws it back in his face.

It's well established already that porkjet does quality work he has nothing to prove to any of you arm chair game devs and rocket scientists who've never used 3d modeling software in your lives and know even less about actual rocket science (the 909 is fine the proportionally tiny combustion chamber is just hidden behind other hardware and real engineers make their upper stage engines as stubby as they can get away with because there are limits on how tall they can make rockets. Also that "fatroll" on the lv45 is a regenerative cooling coil if any of you don't know what that is then you shouldn't be nitpicking engine models)

This is a hype thread so show some gratitude and give porkjet some Hype for what he does, and if you don't like what he does then I'd like to see you do better.

Personally I'm hyped to get my hands on some raw Photoshop files that's a great boon to my corner cutting modding efforts

 

[RocketSquid]

@RoverDude, I know you said it was just something you threw together for that particular stream, but will it eventually be available for download?

 

Also, I have my ticket right here:

Now, can somebody direct me to the baggage compartment? I have a lot of mods I need to stow.