What Facts Do We Know About The Devs Leaving?

[wired2thenet]

32 minutes ago, Andem said:

So forgive me for being passionate about Squad's future and not liking things that don't look good for the company's future.

That's the point, though.  I'm passionate about the game too, but there is nothing ... not one thing in the entire universe ... that you nor I can do about it, except play the game as it stands and have fun with it, and rely on the modders and 3rd party developers to improve the game beyond what it is, unless the devs have plans that we don't know about yet.  And if the latter is the case, then we're no better than Doomsday Annihilists predicting the destruction of the world back in 2000 ... and how did that turn out?  I still play the original TA and TA:Kingdoms, and Cavedog exploded under much more public and destructive reasons than this.

I'm not passively insulting you, by any means, and if you're taking it that way, then my apologies.  I'm just saying stop thinking about doom and gloom.  Squad has give us a wonderful sandbox to play in.  Scott Manley, KurtJMac (wish he would come back to the game), quill18, danny2462, Bradley Whistance, Kerbal Space Command, Cupcake Landers, KottabosGames, Billy Winn Jr (omg the hilarity!) ... and too many others to name -- all of them prove a veracity of love for this game, sharing their most awesome experiences with this community.  They're having fun, and that's the point of it.  Yeah, some of them have left, but that's the nature of gaming.  And game development.  Bottom line is no matter what happens, you'll probably still be killing sending Kerbals on insane missions a year from now.

 

[Mycroft]

6 minutes ago, mcirish3 said:

 There are a few promises left unfulfilled.
 Chief among it is multiplayer which has been promised repeatedly for 1.3 or 1.4. Is that to no longer be a thing?  I don't have a list of other promised features handy at the moment but I am guessing most of that does not matter now?

There is talk that there will be expansions.
 Will the promise made to me and many others who purchased early development be kept, namely that all expansions will be given to those early account holders free of charge?

I am just asking... not sure anyone can answer.
 

Added.

Note to everyone: I am regularly updating the OP, so check back for more details every now and then.

[wired2thenet]

1 minute ago, neamerjell said:

Perhaps someone remembers the game publisher Interplay or the development company Volition? They made awesome  (now classic) games such as Descent 1,2 and 3, Descent: Freespace and Freespace 2. They just up and vanished one day. Back then, the Internet was far from what it is today (Geocities was still new - that's how far back then), so few if any knew why the creators of Descent, et al were no more. I believe the historical records say they ran out of money and were bought by other companies.

Volition!  That was one of the companies I was trying to recall!  Disappeared without a trace, then the source code was leaked, leading to some awesome mods later on (for Freespace).  Man, I need to find that game again!

(Sorry, OT ... just got a squee of excitement thinking about Freespace again )

[Mycroft]

Fun fact: I just followed the job ad on the main forum page, and it seems like they're looking for every possible game dev position. I wonder why?  

[Andem]

17 minutes ago, wired2thenet said:

That's the point, though.  I'm passionate about the game too, but there is nothing ... not one thing in the entire universe ... that you nor I can do about it, except play the game as it stands and have fun with it, and rely on the modders and 3rd party developers to improve the game beyond what it is, unless the devs have plans that we don't know about yet.  And if the latter is the case, then we're no better than Doomsday Annihilists predicting the destruction of the world back in 2000 ... and how did that turn out?  I still play the original TA and TA:Kingdoms, and Cavedog exploded under much more public and destructive reasons than this.

But that just isn't true. Well, it's true if you see the world through that attitude, but otherwise it's just false.

19 minutes ago, wired2thenet said:

I'm not passively insulting you, by any means, and if you're taking it that way, then my apologies.  I'm just saying stop thinking about doom and gloom.  Squad has give us a wonderful sandbox to play in.  Scott Manley, KurtJMac (wish he would come back to the game), quill18, danny2462, Bradley Whistance, Kerbal Space Command, Cupcake Landers, KottabosGames, Billy Winn Jr (omg the hilarity!) ... and too many others to name -- all of them prove a veracity of love for this game, sharing their most awesome experiences with this community.  They're having fun, and that's the point of it.  Yeah, some of them have left, but that's the nature of gaming.  And game development.  Bottom line is no matter what happens, you'll probably still be killing sending Kerbals on insane missions a year from now.

I'm by no means of the opinion that it's doom and gloom, but I am of the opinion that being extremely vague at best and telling half truths at worst is unacceptable and that Squad should at least say something that isn't damage control about the situation. Squads response to the Kerbalstuff shutdown was direct, clear, and most of the controversy quieted down after that. Squad's response to this incident has done nothing but add fuel to the fire and put their own trustworthiness into question. I want a resolution that I can either protest or agree with instead of the mess we have now. And Squads confusing response to this does concern me, as does the fact that nearly the entire dev team just jumped ship. Not even bringing up the new "vision" for ksp, this is certainly alarming. TL;DR: I have concerns. != It's falling apart run about like a headless chicken omg!

[Mycroft]

But we will still have 1.2! I, for one, plan to stockpile several copies of it (around five) as well as my favorite mods. Also, this update gives mods plenty of time to improve and catch up! There is a bright side too. What is happening now is concerning, true, but there is considerable speculation about it that arguably increases the concern. As I like to say, you can't look at the whole cloud without seeing the silver lining.

Off to watch Markiplier to relax....

[Foxster]

Meh.

[wired2thenet]

52 minutes ago, Andem said:

But that just isn't true. Well, it's true if you see the world through that attitude, but otherwise it's just false.

I'm by no means of the opinion that it's doom and gloom, but I am of the opinion that being extremely vague at best and telling half truths at worst is unacceptable and that Squad should at least say something that isn't damage control about the situation. Squads response to the Kerbalstuff shutdown was direct, clear, and most of the controversy quieted down after that. Squad's response to this incident has done nothing but add fuel to the fire and put their own trustworthiness into question. I want a resolution that I can either protest or agree with instead of the mess we have now. And Squads confusing response to this does concern me, as does the fact that nearly the entire dev team just jumped ship. Not even bringing up the new "vision" for ksp, this is certainly alarming. TL;DR: I have concerns. != It's falling apart run about like a headless chicken omg!

The fact is, it is true.  There is nothing you can do about it.  Period.  End of story.  It's a game.  Every game eventually dies, and Squad actually has a pretty good history of staying alive (it beats most companies today, in many respects).

Squad is a game company.  They don't have to tell you anything at all.  They don't owe you anything.  At all.  The company I work for is a major brand-name product, and while in a different industry, has a similar policy.  I can't comment on anything regarding internal affairs, nor the state of our product.  If all but two employees are fired, let-go, or otherwise leave, I cannot, as the Voice of that company, say anything about it.  Period.  No matter how much I want to.  Even when I leave this company, I still can't comment on what has happened, until (if I remember my NDA correctly) SEVEN YEARS after I leave.  That is policy for a lot of companies, and is especially true in the gaming industry.  We don't owe you the truth.  We won't GIVE you the truth, no matter how much you protest.  That's not the way business works.  That being said, I wish it did.  More open-door policies would do a lot better for PR.  But moaning about it won't get you anything.  It is what it is.  Because on the other side of this coin, there are people who are looking into what they can publicly post, and trying to figure out the best way to do so, without causing a firestorm.  I've been in the mix of that morass.  It's not fun, and it's not easy.  And inevitably, even with your best of intentions and your best PR man/woman making the call, you're still going to get people *****ing and moaning about it.  Sometimes it's better to remain silent (I've seen too many incidences where the "best of intentions" backfired).  ((And honestly, with the temperament of the internet today, can you really blame ANY company for not saying anything???  The internet gamers today are a far cry from what I experienced in 1999.  "Trolling" was rare back then, except for the occasion script-kiddies!))

Let Squad do it's thing.  In the meantime, play the game.  Don't worry about the future.  You have a mostly feature-complete game, which is a far-cry from a lot of games you purchase today on Steam.  Don't worry about what's going to comes in 1.3 or 1.4 ... just play the game.

As we said in the old days where the best 3d model in a game had maybe 50 polygons (if that!  I'm that old-school): GLHF!  (Good Luck, Have Fun!)

Apologies to the OP: I had hoped that some of my comments would be on-point for this discussion, but it looks like I'm failing.  I'll politely exit the thread at this point, since I'm not exactly contributing to your original intent.  I do think this is Much To Do About Nothing though, for the reasons I stated.  I just came here looking for Cupcakes' old craft files  and then saw this

 

Edited October 6, 2016 by wired2thenet

[Temeter]

I don't think you are correctly using terms like many, fact and rumor. Also, why is that stuff about the forum getting censored still there? That's obviously nonsense.

All that drama is ridiculous. Just because you don't know what's gong on, it still isn't an invitation for tinfoil conspiracies.

[Andem]

2 minutes ago, Temeter said:

All that drama is ridiculous. Just because you don't know what's gong on, it still isn't an invitation for tinfoil conspiracies.

You do realize that the OP is just saying what has been saying what other people have said and saying what we know to be factual and what isn't, right? You should take that pst to the other thread or reddit where it belongs.

 

@wired2thenet We're using the same terms to describe completely different things here if that's how you're reading what I said. But I have to point out that all of the things you told me to do are things that would make me punch holes in walls from frustration, so telling me to do them again won't get  either of us anywhere.

[Temeter]

9 minutes ago, Andem said:

You do realize that the OP is just saying what has been saying what other people have said and saying what we know to be factual and what isn't, right? You should take that pst to the other thread or reddit where it belongs.

That's exactly the problem of the post. It's just an amalgation of what people have been saying, and peole are saying a lot, all the time.

[Sharpy]

@RoverDude: mind me asking, what country are you living in?

 

Hypothesis: Same employer, similar salaries, different costs of living and local average salaries = various level of job satisfaction. With sub-average job satisfaction, 'departures' tend to happen in waves.

[Andem]

3 minutes ago, Temeter said:

That's exactly the problem of the post. It's just an amalgation of what people have been saying, and peole are saying a lot, all the time.

So are we no longer allowed to make it clear what is and isn't true? I really don't see why the post is here rather then anywhere where people are actually theorizing.

[Sharpy]

@Andem

Let's separate

(i) moral high ground

(ii) best business practices

(iii) legal rights and obligations.

 

(a) Squad telling everything outright, would be (i) but likely against (ii) and definitely not mandated by (iii). Likely outcome: Squad stays silent or does damage control.

(b) Us discussing rumors is (iii) our right of freedom of speech, but not necessarily (i) the fair thing to do (and possibly a little damaging to (ii) Squad's reputation) but in light of the likely outcome of (a) semi-justified.

(c) "Forum censorship" - Forum being owned by Squad, Squad is within their right (iii) and prompted by possibility of damage (b) do the nasty (i) thing and censor posts. This being a nasty thing tends to cause bad backslash and even worse damage, so it's unlikely for business (ii) reason, completely regardless of (i).

Next time you say "we can", "we should", "we have to", "they can", "they should", "they have to", qualify it, with which metric you use. Moral, business or legal?

[kiwi1960]

Are they your prisoners? Do you own them? NO!!!!

 

Do they owe you ANY answers.... NO.... this isn't a conspiracy, please respect their decision and their privacy....

How many of you are shareholders in Squad...

 

Now... please tell me again how these people... not "devs"... that is too impersonal... but PEOPLE..... owe you ANYTHING...

 

 

[Andem]

@kiwi1960

@Sharpy

None of those are thing that I have said. You really shouldn't strawman people because it takes all validity from your point.

[Sharpy]

4 minutes ago, kiwi1960 said:

Now... please tell me again how these people... not "devs"... that is too impersonal... but PEOPLE..... owe you ANYTHING...

 

 

Morally, legally, or for business reasons?

[Mycroft]

29 minutes ago, Temeter said:

I don't think you are correctly using terms like many, fact and rumor. Also, why is that stuff about the forum getting censored still there? That's obviously nonsense.

Okay, so please do elaborate where I mis-classified something as 'fact' or 'rumor'. Seriously. I want the OP to be an accurate representation of what was said, as well as correctly filtering out the facts from the speculation, so that we know where we stand in order to put harmful rumors and behavior to death. That's why the censorship rumor is still there. First, because it is a very serious accusation that was made in what seems to be a diliberate attempt to badmouth SQUAD. Second, it is listed as a rumor to reassure those fearful of tinfoil hat situations that there is no evidence (that I am aware of) for this. Anyone who saw me post early on in this mess knows I was concerned by the idea of censorship. I want to alleviate the concerns of others. While the male cow excrement element of this may be obvious to some, we may not assume that everyone will see it. Also, I feel obligated to point out that actually censorship is technically a reserved right in the rules. If you like, I can quote it. So just because no one presents evidence of censorship does not and cannot infer that censorship is not happening. So I cannot leave it out in good conscience. But the lack of evidence leads me to strongly believe that it is a rumor, so I listed it as such.

 

42 minutes ago, Temeter said:

All that drama is ridiculous. Just because you don't know what's gong on, it still isn't an invitation for tinfoil conspiracies.

I do not believe I am promoting conspiracy theories. If anything, I'm trying to debunk them. Which is why accuracy is imperative. The only way to dissolve lies is to respond with facts, and call the lies out for what they are. 

With all due respect, no one is forcing you to post here or even read this thread. You do not need to force yourself to watch if you believe I am acting unwisely. Thank you for your opinion.

Sincerely, 

Mycroft, CEO of CMAU Incorporated.

[DrLicor]

Good job @Mycroft, this really explains a lot for me and to know what is fact and rumor.  

[Alewx]

Nice post, and pretty good work.

One question though, where is this ominous list of the devs that are still working on the game in the forum?

[Andem]

Just now, Alewx said:

Nice post, and pretty good work.

One question though, where is this ominous list of the devs that are still working on the game in the forum?

Check the staff tab at the top of the page. 

[Signo]

I am not a CEO, nor a SQUAD shareholder: on the other hand I am a proud customer of KSP.

With all due respect for the people involved I feel like we are having a communication issue - it seems to me that neither SQUAD nor the former devs made a clear statement on the situation, leaving room for any kind of rumor. 

It seems to me that the common feeling on this topic is that it "stinks fishy", so I suspect that any further attempt to set it up stating that "everything is under control" without any further explanation will just start more rumors.

Former disgruntled lovers could become your worst enemy.

Sincerely,

A worried, free willed and big mouthed customer that might (or might not) keep on backing the project.

Edited October 6, 2016 by Signo

[RoverDude]

20 minutes ago, Sharpy said:

@RoverDude: mind me asking, what country are you living in?

United States.  Tho this is pretty public knowledge.Also the repeated assertion that there are only two devs left is incorrect.

1 minute ago, Andem said:

Check the staff tab at the top of the page. 

You do realize that not every dev is a member of the forums?  And given the witch hunt, I don't really blame them.

[KerbMav]

Only thing that strikes me as odd is that everyone leaving Squad made a post on the forums instead of only on Reddit - cannot remember for sure if someone left and it only being announced by the CM.

Some might be interested in the business practices of a company to decide weather they would want to continue to support (buying DLCs, gifting product to others, endorsing others to become customers etc.) said company.
But those people might not want to be on the internet anyway, as there is no Fairtrade hardware on the market.

[Mycroft]

1 minute ago, RoverDude said:

United States.  Tho this is pretty public knowledge.Also the repeated assertion that there are only two devs left is incorrect.

You do realize that not every dev is a member of the forums?  And given the witch hunt, I don't really blame them.

How many Devs are there now? I ask merely for accuracy's sake, because I've heard several different numbers down, and I want the OP to be as accurate as possible. I understand if you cannot say. If so, I will change the number of Devs to be a 'rumor'. Heaven knows we need more of those! (not sarcasm at all)