[Minimum KSP: 1.12.2] Snacks! - Friendly, Simplified Life Support

[AVaughan]

@AmpCat  That sound like a well known issue of KSPs electrical system at high time warp.  See Streetwind's comment

 

[AmpCat]

14 hours ago, AVaughan said:

@AmpCat  That sound like a well known issue of KSPs electrical system at high time warp.  See Streetwind's comment

 

Yep, I'm familiar with that, which is why I mentioned I have both Nertea's mods installed (Near Future Electrical, as Streetwind recommended) and that my station has a huge EC capacity of over 13,000 (the other solution Streetwind has suggested). Either should have avoided this situation, and certainly while I don't have the stations in active focus. I think there's a problem in the simulation engine.

Here there's also a difference in behavior between Nertea's crew pods that contain soil recyclers, and the Hitchhikers, but I think it's a different problem.

[AmpCat]

On 7/25/2019 at 2:12 PM, AmpCat said:

@Angel-125, I'm still running into an issue where if I timewarp at max speed, (using stock time warp), craft that are currently NOT in focus, will generate errors that they no longer have enough resources (specifically, electricity) to keep running soil->snack converters, and it shuts them down until I focus on that craft again. I think (I'll double check) that craft in focus no longer have this issue.

I also noticed that the amount of time warp required to trigger these messages varied just a bit, and it seems correlated to the maximum timewarp speed (due to altitude) that the complaining craft can go if it were in focus.

For example, I'm at my space station around Minimus, soil converters running, and go to timewarp. I have a station around Mun at a low altitude, so it's max timewarp speed is x1000. Once I hit x10,000 timewarp while focused on my Minimus station, I get a message that the Mun station is out of electricity.

However, I've noticed an oddity. Say my Minimus station's timewarp max, due to altitude maxes out at x10,000, then I would expect to only see the warning for that station if I warp past x10,000. However, I don't. Not sure if I just missed something while doing the experiment, or there's some special cases.

Okay, this is getting weirds. I'm focused on Minimus Station. It's at 50km up, so can timewarp x10,000. When I hit x1000, everything's fine. I hit x10,000, the recyclers shut down completely. I have plenty of power, plenty of solar, and a small nuke keeping batteries topped off in shadow. This station can store 13,000 electric charge. But it keeps shutting down the recyclers. The only thing I can think of that might be adding complexity, is I have @Nertea's mods, and I think there was some fiddling done on electricity levels in timewarp there, if I recall.

Also, on another note, when I click the 'Snacks!' toolbar button, it shows me Kerbin, Mun, and Minumus buttons.. I can only use the button for the orbit I'm currently in. While at the Minimus station, I can't select Kerbin or the Mun.

Edit: Okay, the other difference is the Mun station is using just two Hitchhikers for soil recyclers. The Minimus station is using 3.75m parts from @Nertea's station expansion (The Shelter and Coriolis parts) which now have soil recyclers on them. Also, at the moment, if I'm focused on the Mun station with the Hitchhikers, so far, I don't have a problem with time warp or the recyclers going inactive while its in focus. Only if that station is not in focus.

Edit2: I tried installing Better Time Warp, and the issue occurs exactly the same as before, based on the time warp multiplier, not on the steps on the time warp >>>>>>> controller at the top left.

Okay, I modified the cfg file for the StationParts Expansion from Nertea and changed the Autoshutdown back to false, so it will resume once it goes back below x10,000 warp. While at the station, it has plenty of EC, yet the module claims it's out of EC for some reason, if you timewarp past x1000. Still can't figure out why.

The station with the Hitchhikers has the same problem, only it doesn't show up until past x10,000 warp rather than x1000. Not sure why there's a difference.

[AmpCat]

22 hours ago, AVaughan said:

@AmpCat  That sound like a well known issue of KSPs electrical system at high time warp.  See Streetwind's comment

 

Okay, reading back in the thread several pages ago, someone else had the same problem and @Angel-125 replied with some math showing how much EC was required for each time warp setting. It's a LOT. I'm not sure why you need so much of a buffer, but it has to do with how he runs the simulation. So now I need to figure out if I can tune this delta time parameter which seems to have a very big impact on the EC use, change the base EC required by recyclers down a lot, or just put a huge amount of EC on the crafts. Not yet sure, but it's either in the realm of 20k EC, or 200k, depending on how many many snacks you can recycle per day.

[Angelo Kerman]

11 hours ago, AmpCat said:

Okay, reading back in the thread several pages ago, someone else had the same problem and @Angel-125 replied with some math showing how much EC was required for each time warp setting. It's a LOT. I'm not sure why you need so much of a buffer, but it has to do with how he runs the simulation. So now I need to figure out if I can tune this delta time parameter which seems to have a very big impact on the EC use, change the base EC required by recyclers down a lot, or just put a huge amount of EC on the crafts. Not yet sure, but it's either in the realm of 20k EC, or 200k, depending on how many many snacks you can recycle per day.

It's more to do with how the game handles resource consumption/production at high timewarps. The simulator actually processes resources a simulated hour at a time. Background processing accounts for high timewarp; it's no different than if you ran the loaded vessel at a high timewarp, so you have the same issues as in the base game.

[AmpCat]

43 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

It's more to do with how the game handles resource consumption/production at high timewarps. The simulator actually processes resources a simulated hour at a time. Background processing accounts for high timewarp; it's no different than if you ran the loaded vessel at a high timewarp, so you have the same issues as in the base game.

Well, Nertea has a mod with his electrical systems that are supposed to fix all this. And indeed, with other converters and such that require resources, like drills, ISRU, fuel tank refrigeration, etc, this isn't an issue, despite them having a much higher power draw. 

For now I'm just superloading my next station with batteries, but seems like there should be a way around this.

Edited July 27, 2019 by AmpCat

[Angelo Kerman]

42 minutes ago, AmpCat said:

Well, Nertea has a mod with his electrical systems that are supposed to fix all this. And indeed, with other converters and such that require resources, like drills, ISRU, fuel tank refrigeration, etc, this isn't an issue, despite them having a much higher power draw. 

For now I'm just superloading my next station with batteries, but seems like there should be a way around this.

That sounds like something to do with his electrical mod. There is simply no way for me to integrate Snacks with every mod out there that people desire.

Meanwhile, Snacks 1.21 is now available:

- CheckResources can now check resource percent levels.
- Fix Simulator window not running simulations after closing and reopening the window in the same scene.
- Fix NRE generated by FaintPenalty.
- Fix estimated time remaining display showing 1 hour even when out of resources.
- Fix Snacks converters and their derivatives give players a break on ElectricCharge consumption past 100x timewarp.
- Fix background converters honor infinite electricity and infinite propellant debug settings.
- Fix "Hydrazine" Vodka display name.

[steve_v]

39 minutes ago, AmpCat said:

Nertea has a mod with his electrical systems that are supposed to fix all this.

DynamicBatteryStorage will be miscalculating the electricity demand of the craft and therefore how much to inflate battery capacity in warp, because it doesn't have support for the custom converter modules Snacks uses.
Shouldn't be hard to add such support given sufficient motivation mind...

 

Just now, Angel-125 said:

There is simply no way for me to integrate Snacks with every mod out there that people desire.

Nertea has already included support for a few mods not of his own making, it might be worth talking about yours. DBS is after all an effective fix for the timewarp power problem, and I'm sure users of your mod would stand to benefit from it.

[AmpCat]

6 hours ago, steve_v said:

DynamicBatteryStorage will be miscalculating the electricity demand of the craft and therefore how much to inflate battery capacity in warp, because it doesn't have support for the custom converter modules Snacks uses.
Shouldn't be hard to add such support given sufficient motivation mind...

 

Nertea has already included support for a few mods not of his own making, it might be worth talking about yours. DBS is after all an effective fix for the timewarp power problem, and I'm sure users of your mod would stand to benefit from it.

Nertea has also already added Snacks support to his station parts, so I imagine it's not hard to convince him to add it to DynamicBatteryStorage.

[steve_v]

1 hour ago, AmpCat said:

I imagine it's not hard to convince him to add it to DynamicBatteryStorage.

It's on the radar. Nertea is awesome

[gamerscircle]

Firstly!  This is a great mod - thank you for making it possible and prolonging one of my favorite time sinks.  

I have a question about the scrubbers and recyclers, do they work in the background or does it have to be the active vessel for them to work or.. are they just a little slow?

 

[RealKerbal3x]

2 minutes ago, gamerscircle said:

I have a question about the scrubbers and recyclers, do they work in the background or does it have to be the active vessel for them to work or.. are they just a little slow?

IIRC they work in the background, but there's a bug in the stock game where electric charge drains faster at high time warp, so your converters may randomly shut down if you're timewarping fast enough.

[gamerscircle]

1 hour ago, RealKerbal3x said:

IIRC they work in the background, but there's a bug in the stock game where electric charge drains faster at high time warp, so your converters may randomly shut down if you're timewarping fast enough.

Okay, I think I saw that... I suppose I just have a lot of scrubbing and recycling and I didn't think it was working correctly.  Appreciate the response.

[AmpCat]

Anyone else getting the issue where the 'Snacks!' toolbar will only let you see the body you're currently orbiting? It shows me buttons for all the bodies for which I have vessels with snacks in them, but it doesn't do anything if I click on them. Only shows the vessels orbiting the body my current vessel is orbiting. So, like I'll see a station and a Mun lander while I'm at the station around the Mun, and it'll show me a button for Minimus for my Minimus station, but clicking on that button does nothing.

[Angelo Kerman]

On 7/30/2019 at 5:55 AM, gamerscircle said:

Okay, I think I saw that... I suppose I just have a lot of scrubbing and recycling and I didn't think it was working correctly.  Appreciate the response.

I spoke with @Nertea about supporting Dynamic Batteries, next update will include it.

1 hour ago, AmpCat said:

Anyone else getting the issue where the 'Snacks!' toolbar will only let you see the body you're currently orbiting? It shows me buttons for all the bodies for which I have vessels with snacks in them, but it doesn't do anything if I click on them. Only shows the vessels orbiting the body my current vessel is orbiting. So, like I'll see a station and a Mun lander while I'm at the station around the Mun, and it'll show me a button for Minimus for my Minimus station, but clicking on that button does nothing.

I’ll take a look later this week and see if I can reproduce it.

[AmpCat]

2 minutes ago, Angel-125 said:

I spoke with @Nertea about supporting Dynamic Batteries, next update will include it.

I’ll take a look later this week and see if I can reproduce it.

Thanks for the quick response! Snacks! is my favorite life support mod, so I'm glad to see such active development.

[BadOaks]

Hi all, I had some questions about the interface. I have a new sandbox game and I've enabled both air and stress. I sent up a spacecraft with 3 level 0 crew and had it sit in orbit for a few days. What are the two percentages below each crew member? If the first number is stress, what might be causing Bob to burn out so much faster than the other two?

 

Edited August 2, 2019 by BadOaks

[RealKerbal3x]

1 minute ago, BadOaks said:

Hi all, I had some questions about the interface. I have a new sandbox game and I've enabled both air and stress. I sent up a spacecraft with 3 level 0 crew and had it sit in orbit for a few days. What are the two percentages below each crew member? If the first number is stress, what might be causing Bob to burn out so much faster than the other two?

[snipped image]

Hmm, I'm not sure. I was going to say something about Bob being a lower level than the other two, but from your screenshot it looks like you're playing sandbox rather than career. So I'm as stumped as you

[BadOaks]

I do have levels enabled, but in this case since it's literally my first launch they are all level 0. 

[RealKerbal3x]

1 minute ago, BadOaks said:

I do have levels enabled, but in this case since it's literally my first launch they are all level 0. 

Do you use any other mods that modify Kerbals?

[BadOaks]

Not that I know of. Snacks is the only life support mod I have running. Here's my gamedata folder:

[RealKerbal3x]

Hmm, yeah, I have no idea. Let's summon @Angel-125 and see what he makes of this.

[Angelo Kerman]

8 hours ago, RealKerbal3x said:

Hmm, yeah, I have no idea. Let's summon @Angel-125 and see what he makes of this.

Looks like an issue of some sort with the display of the Air and Stress resources. Random events can cause Stress. A lack of snacks can cause Stress, as can a lack of FreshAir.

[Angelo Kerman]

 

On 7/30/2019 at 5:55 AM, gamerscircle said:

Okay, I think I saw that... I suppose I just have a lot of scrubbing and recycling and I didn't think it was working correctly.  Appreciate the response.

Sorry for the late reply, it's been a rough work week. The standard air scrubber should produce 6.3936 units of FreshAir from 15.54 units of StaleAir, per 6-hour day. Your kerbals use 1 unit of FreshAir per 6-hour day per kerbal, and produce 1 unit of StaleAir. Are you having some difficulties with the converters?

Meantime, I'm doing some more investigating on the vessels around other worlds issue tonight. I've got support for @Nertea's Dynamic Batteries set up.

@BadOaks I think there's something going on with your install. You should see something like this:

Ok, I can reproduce @AmpCat's issue

@BadOaks Ok, I can finally reproduce your issue too. Fix incoming this weekend.

Edited August 3, 2019 by Angel-125

[Angelo Kerman]

Well damn, I saw @BadOaks issue once, but can't reproduce it when I restarted KSP...