TheSaint Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 1 hour ago, adsii1970 said: I've been teaching at the college level since 2004; trust me when I say student attitudes in America are getting worse. When a student fails a class, I take it personally. I want to know what I could have done to reach the student. This is why each semester, I tweak my courses to make them more "student" friendly. All of the exams I give are on-line and students have 36 hours to do them. And I still have about 1/3 of the class who will not even bother with the exam. This student, without giving out too much, basically showed up for five classes. No other work whatsoever. None. And of course, I get the blame for it -- at least in her mind. Unfortunately they are coming more frequently. The last two years have been incredibly bad for me. In fact, I have created a new image just for these kinds of things... I hear you, but truth be known, I have also had some 40 year old students who couldn't pass a dot-to-dot drawing class. Stupid and lazy people come in all shapes and sizes. It is just that I see more concentrations of younger stupid people because of teaching in smaller colleges and universities. My sons took their hunter education class on Saturday. There was an exam at the end, 50 multiple choice questions. I noticed that, of the 9 children (12 and under) who were students in the class, mine were the only two whose parent was not sitting with them and "helping" them with their exam. (In fact I was sitting behind them making sure they didn't cheat off each other.) Thing One got a 94%, Thing Two got 90%. (And I made them go around and thank all of the instructor/volunteers afterwards, which I didn't see any of the other kids doing.) It's funny, because I know me, and I know that if I were to just follow my first impulse I would totally be the helicopter parent. Instead I just take a deep breath, make sure nobody is going to be injured, and then let them succeed or fail all on their own. 9 minutes ago, adsii1970 said: Every generation thinks theirs is the end-all, be-all of society. But when you take that attitude + social media + mainstream media pumping out television shows of how the older generation "doesn't get it", it has created the perfect storm of problems for the current young generation. The "older generation doesn't get it" television shows aren't new; they started in the 1990s and continue on. They do not show any signs of slowing down or stopping, either. Just wait until your generation has children and you'll see how you and your parents are portrayed... When I got back from South Africa a lot of the folks I hung out with were my ex-youth kids, early-twenty-somthings, either in college or just out of it. I remember one of their friends actually had a shirt printed up that said, "Don't trust anyone over thirty." Which I found rather droll, being 33 at the time. That kid is probably pushing forty now. I wonder if he still has that shirt? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razark Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) 17 minutes ago, adsii1970 said: he "older generation doesn't get it" television shows aren't new; they started in the 1990s... 1 minute ago, TheSaint said: Instead I just take a deep breath, make sure nobody is going to be injured, and then let them succeed or fail all on their own. And then get people complaining about how you're neglecting your children. Edited April 11, 2018 by razark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p1t1o Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 (edited) I have some thoughts: Generations don't run in sequence: one, then another. Its a smooth spectrum of change. "Blame", if we're gonna call it that, is spread across many "generations", for example - if kids today are some way or other, it has something to do with their parents. And it also has to do with the kids a few years older (and their parents) and the kids a few years younger (and their parents) that "kids today" mix with or see or hear. Edited April 11, 2018 by p1t1o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adsii1970 Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 @razark: In that particular show, Archie Bunker, the main character, often had to "explain" things to the younger generation. But the show was edgy because it played with a double edged sword. Yes, his daughter and her husband, "Meathead" were of the younger generation and often did show how "out of it" Archie's generation was, at the same time, Archie did illustrate clearly when it came to certain issues, the younger generation didn't "get it". And that's one of the reasons the show was so popular... as was the spin-off, The Jeffersons. 5 minutes ago, p1t1o said: Generations don't run in sequence: one, then another. Its a smooth spectrum of change. "Blame", if we're gonna call it that, is spread across many "generations", for example - if kids today are some way or other, it has something to do with their parents. And it also has to do with the kids a few years older (and their parents) and the kids a few years younger (and their parents) that "kids today" mix with or see or hear. To a point. But each generation must find it's own "place in the sun" so to speak. Right now, those who are in their 60s and 70s are trying to relive the 1960s an 1970s through the younger "post-millennial" generation. And this is why the pendulum is swinging so far out. I grew up in the 70s and the 80s, and we saw the world through a different set of values than did our parents' generation. Just as you see it differently than what we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just Jim Posted April 11, 2018 Share Posted April 11, 2018 20 minutes ago, adsii1970 said: In that particular show, Archie Bunker, the main character, often had to "explain" things to the younger generation. But the show was edgy because it played with a double edged sword. I loved that show... Archie was a really great example of an anti-hero in his own grouchy way... and Carol O'Connor played him so well!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razark Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 6 hours ago, Just Jim said: I loved that show... I've only seen the first two seasons of it. A friend of mine loves the show, and loaned me his DVDs. I was only able to sit through about one and a half seasons of it, but he promised me he'll find the rest of season two, and if he ever gets any more of them, he'll let me borrow them. @adsii1970: Yeah, Archie did have his moments over Meathead*. But taking the whole balance into consideration, he does seem to be getting the short end. *And those moments tended to be pure gold for the series, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gargamel Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Well, today I accidentally turned off the coolant on the CNC lathe I was running. I didn't notice till I reached in to remove the part from the machine. Now I have 1st degree burns all over the palm of my hand. Yay me. Aloe and Ibuprofen for a couple days..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p1t1o Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Gargamel said: Well, today I accidentally turned off the coolant on the CNC lathe I was running. I didn't notice till I reached in to remove the part from the machine. Now I have 1st degree burns all over the palm of my hand. Yay me. Aloe and Ibuprofen for a couple days..... Here's your... Sorry, couldnt resist ...I'll show myself out. Edited April 12, 2018 by p1t1o Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gargamel Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Reluctant like given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piatzin Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 So I'm on a nine hour long train ride to Helsinki right now. It's currently 10:34 where I am, and we arrive at 6:30. I got mah earplugs, listening to epic music while texting with my best friend and writing a thesis for school. Snacks in my bag, two movies in the playlist for later.....first all-nighter of my life, here I - *Snore......* ...........zzz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adsii1970 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 (edited) Hung a sign above my desk in my office. Was told I COULD NOT hang it up. My department chair told me it was inappropriate for someone who advises students. What do you folks think? Edited April 12, 2018 by adsii1970 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Steve Posted April 12, 2018 Author Share Posted April 12, 2018 @adsii1970 Sad but true. I can see both sides of the argument, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adsii1970 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 2 minutes ago, Ultimate Steve said: @adsii1970 Sad but true. I can see both sides of the argument, though. Oh, I can too... but with the week I've had... Kinda makes me think of this scene: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razark Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 19 minutes ago, adsii1970 said: My department chair told me it was inappropriate for someone who advises students. Does the chair wish you to be someone who advises students, or someone who lies to students? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adsii1970 Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 1 minute ago, razark said: Does the chair wish you to be someone who advises students, or someone who lies to students? Ha. She already knows my reputation. For example, Monday I had an appointment with a young lady who has, after two semesters, a cumulative 1.97 average. She told me she was "burned out" of school and wanted to take a couple of semesters easy (take electives that would not have mattered for her degree). She then proceeded to tell me that if she dropped out, her parents would either make her get a job or join the service. But she needed me to help her get on academic probation for financial aid. Guess who wasn't convinced? Yeah. My "advise" to her? Go see the armed forces recruiter and sign up for three years, then come back to college... Yeah, I don't pull punches. But on the flip side, I can get you out of college in 18 months with an A.A. or A.S., and in 30 months, I can have you out with your B.A. College is to be endured only a short time and no where the length of the American Pie movie series spans... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 1 hour ago, adsii1970 said: Hung a sign above my desk in my office. Was told I COULD NOT hang it up. My department chair told me it was inappropriate for someone who advises students. What do you folks think? As I’m fond of telling a certain editor of mine, sometimes the greatest courtesy you can do a person is to tell them what they don’t want to hear. 49 minutes ago, adsii1970 said: College is to be endured only a short time and no where the length of the American Pie movie series spans... Listening to the stories and experiences drifting around this thread, it never ceases to amaze me how happy I am to be done with that phase of life. Even tho I left it nearly 20 years ago, I’m still so happy to know I never have to deal with grades or classes or arbitrary academic rigamarole ever again. I love learning but I always hated school. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piatzin Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 Snack reserves at 60% Still not that sleepy, though it's only 1:18.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, Earthlinger said: Snack reserves at 60% Still not that sleepy, though it's only 1:18.... Code red! Code red! Launching emergency snack resupply... oops... forgot to check staging... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piatzin Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 6 minutes ago, CatastrophicFailure said: Code red! Code red! Launching emergency snack resupply... Code Red is actually at 75% Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XB-70A Posted April 12, 2018 Share Posted April 12, 2018 36 minutes ago, CatastrophicFailure said: Listening to the stories and experiences drifting around this thread, it never ceases to amaze me how happy I am to be done with that phase of life. Even tho I left it nearly 20 years ago, I’m still so happy to know I never have to deal with grades or classes or arbitrary academic rigamarole ever again. I love learning but I always hated school. I envy you... really. I've restarted to study about six months ago, "half-time" only as I have to take care of my store too. I can't recount how many times peoples warned and told me "Are you sure to stop studying? To restart will be everything but easy." and every time I was smiling at them. Damn, how wrong I was... most of the kids around me are between 7 to 10 years younger, and I don't really understand why, but the contact is nearly impossible to establish definitely. I really have the (false?) impression to be surrounded by immature subjects, only worried about having a funny time on the place and the last sport results (without counting the last Kardashian's show)... Plus the fact that I always hated school too, mainly due to the obligation to follow the instructions and to obey Anyway, it's only the beginning a restart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adsii1970 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 2 hours ago, Earthlinger said: Code Red is actually at 75% I beg to differ. When it comes to coffee consumption, it means there's slightly less than a full cup remaining in the cup... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordFerret Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 17 hours ago, adsii1970 said: Hung a sign above my desk in my office. Was told I COULD NOT hang it up. My department chair told me it was inappropriate for someone who advises students. What do you folks think? I think 'one standard deviation' is a thing they'll never face up to, and as a result we'll never move beyond where we are now... in fact, forward motion has stopped and we're now regressing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adsii1970 Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 12 minutes ago, LordFerret said: I think 'one standard deviation' is a thing they'll never face up to, and as a result we'll never move beyond where we are now... in fact, forward motion has stopped and we're now regressing. I agree. Western civilization appears hell-bent on entering another Dark Age. In my study of history, I've never encountered any civilization which cheers it's own demise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolowl Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 16 hours ago, XB-70A said: I envy you... really. I've restarted to study about six months ago, "half-time" only as I have to take care of my store too. I can't recount how many times peoples warned and told me "Are you sure to stop studying? To restart will be everything but easy." and every time I was smiling at them. Damn, how wrong I was... most of the kids around me are between 7 to 10 years younger, and I don't really understand why, but the contact is nearly impossible to establish definitely. I really have the (false?) impression to be surrounded by immature subjects, only worried about having a funny time on the place and the last sport results (without counting the last Kardashian's show)... Plus the fact that I always hated school too, mainly due to the obligation to follow the instructions and to obey Anyway, it's only the beginning a restart. Best of luck to you XB-70A -- restarting study can be a whiplash experience, but it tends to pay off in the end! For what it's worth, there is an invisible army of teachers and researchers out there -myself included- fighting to re-invent school so that it's less about "follow and obey" and more about giving students choices and allowing them to follow their interests. (Quick summary here for those interested.) Changing the status quo takes time, but if my compatriots and I have anything to say about it "memorize this, fill in this multiple choice quiz, and follow the rubric OR ELSE" education is going DOWN. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lolowl Posted April 13, 2018 Share Posted April 13, 2018 1 hour ago, adsii1970 said: I agree. Western civilization appears hell-bent on entering another Dark Age. In my study of history, I've never encountered any civilization which cheers it's own demise. Yup. My fellow historians and I are not sure whether to break out the popcorn or hide under the bed. There are a couple of analogies being tossed around, like The Fall of Rome and Berlin in the 1920s/30s (which Cabaret the stage musical and movie capture perfectly). But the widespread cynicism and willing self-destruction of today is without true precedent. If you're trying to make sense of modern trends, I've found Timothy Snyder's recent books to be helpful. He's a professor of 20th Century Eastern Europe (super happy time!) who's great at picking out trends and undercurrents. I highly recommend his presentation on "what European history can teach us about [modern] America" on YouTube. (gets off historian soapbox) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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