MiffedStarfish Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 (edited) Proof: That we can see stars in the sky. If it was created at 7:00 am, we wouldn't be able to see stars for another 4 years. You're faking memory's, not changing the laws of physics. Science! Edited April 15, 2017 by MiffedStarfish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IllyrianTheGreat Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 You can stay awake for more than 24 hours and be sure that universe wasn't created today Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Kerman Posted April 15, 2017 Author Share Posted April 15, 2017 The whole point of this thread is that i found it funny that you can't prove it wrong. Because i could just say it was created that way, you mind was given a memory. It was after i watched a video on YouTube. It was by Vsauce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urses Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 (edited) No. It is a abrevation of another question. Can you convice me that if i die the universum will continue? You can't because the universum like it is is my personal witness. If i die the main defition for this universum fades. Because my universum is defined by my thougths and can only exists as long i exist. Your world may be here but my never more. Very philosophical Funny Kabooms Urses Edited April 15, 2017 by Urses Misspealing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Kerman Posted April 15, 2017 Author Share Posted April 15, 2017 I haven't even had breakfast yet (morning for me) it will take a while for my brain the get in gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 28 minutes ago, Green Baron said: children aged 7 usually ask these questions. What has this to do with Science or Spaceflight ? Children aged 77 do this, too, since the Ancient Greece. Still no clear answer. 4 minutes ago, Urses said: Can you convice me that if i die the universum will continue? Don't make him test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Baron Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 The universe was sneezed out and we all live in fear of the Coming of the Great White Handkerchief (Douglas Adams) The world was not created this morning but during 6 days ~4500 yrs ago (Bishop Usher) ... the list is long ..., as is the list of mythologies, be it historical or popular culture. 2 minutes ago, Orion Kerman said: The whole point of this thread is that i found it funny that you can't prove it wrong. Because i could just say it was created that way, you mind was given a memory. It was after i watched a video on YouTube. It was by Vsauce. No. The other way round. You are not willing to accept scientific findings, such simple things as physical dating of rocks. I CAN prove you wrong if go accompany me to a laboratory for rock dating. You can take the sample here from the ocean floor, you pay the accelerator time on tenerife in the volcanologic institute (a few hundred bucks) and you get your date and was not "this morning". The problem is your will to accept science. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Kerman Posted April 15, 2017 Author Share Posted April 15, 2017 (edited) I love philosophy. I could just say the rocks were made that way. But i wont. The only reason i made this thread is that i found it funny there is no proof according to this thought of the universe was made then. They only have to say it was created that way. I know it's an absolutely stupid idea though @Green Baron Edited April 15, 2017 by Orion Kerman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiffedStarfish Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 4 minutes ago, Green Baron said: The universe was sneezed out and we all live in fear of the Coming of the Great White Handkerchief (Douglas Adams) The world was not created this morning but during 6 days ~4500 yrs ago (Bishop Usher) First quote: Yes! All hail Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy! second quote: what do say to rocks dated to have existed before that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Urses Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 @Green Baron It is as you said you can do science to prove something but if your contrahent is stubborn on a point and go philosophical or (much annoying) theological you are somewhere on the point to decide "it is worth to diskuss with him?" And how it comes you forgot the Great turtle mating (Diskworld)? Funny Kabooms Urses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegarrison Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 8 hours ago, Orion Kerman said: Exactly!!! I bet no one on the forums could do it. This is an old chestnut. It's a meaningless question, similar to "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" Bertrand Russell's teapot might also be floating around in the Oort cloud, and there would be no way we could know that either. But the assumption that the universe is what it appears to be and it's not trying to trick us seems like a useful assumption. What has happened in the past can help tell us what will happen in the future. The assumption that it's all "the Matrix" or that some Creator decided to create it today but with all the signs (including our memories) of ancient history is not a useful assumption. It adds no value to predicting what might happen next. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Kerman Posted April 15, 2017 Author Share Posted April 15, 2017 (edited) I wish i had more likes to give Edited April 15, 2017 by Orion Kerman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MiffedStarfish Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 No! Likes must be earned, not begged for! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Kerman Posted April 15, 2017 Author Share Posted April 15, 2017 Yes you have all earned likes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WinkAllKerb'' Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 (edited) 51 minutes ago, Orion Kerman said: The whole point of this thread is that i found it funny that you can't prove it wrong. Because i could just say it was created that way, you mind was given a memory. It was after i watched a video on YouTube. It was by Vsauce. http://catacombes.web.free.fr/Reseau14/CarrefourMorts.html ... ... ... Edited April 15, 2017 by WinkAllKerb'' T_T Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Baron Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 (edited) To say it clear: This is a typical creationist tactic you show here, to call for a proof to a thing that cannot be proved, and it is as old as religion. No scientist can disprove creation at whatever time, but that is not a scientists task. Working with data at hand, building hypothesis that can be proved or disproved, making theories describing part of natural processes is harder work than just believing in creation. The good thing is that you have demonstrated well this creationist tactic today and maybe a few honest forum users are better aware now. If that was your intention then well done. But somehow i have a bad feeling about this ... Edited April 15, 2017 by Green Baron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brotoro Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 The universe could not have been created on 14th April 2017 at 7:00 in the morning, because I just created it less than ten minutes ago at 8:35 UTC on 15 April 2017. Yes, I created it with all of you and your memories in place, and all of the geological strata and dinosaur bones in place. Yes, I created light and other signals already in place on their way in transit to us now from distant objects. Yes, I created all outgoing signals that are heading away from Earth as if we had been here all along. Yes, I created all the recordings of 'past events' already in place, including all of the posts on this forum. And, yes, I created Orion Kerman and his memory of starting this thread (which he obviously didn't, since the universe didn't exist that early last morning...as I'm sure he will agree he can't dispute). Sorry about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YNM Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 (edited) @Orion Kerman For all it's worth, it might even be that the whole world blinked into existence and then dissapeared every single instant - which sort of fits the planck terms (shortest time possible to see / observe in between) - but what gives ? It doesn't (really) change anything. Why even bother ? (no offence to the quantum guys - it really doesn't bother in the long run.) Also, I read the question of the vote wrong (thought it was the event, not the proof). Explains why it's more or less in a tie ? Off topic : apparently michael of vsauce was sick or something ? Edited April 15, 2017 by YNM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, MiffedStarfish said: Proof: That we can see stars in the sky. If it was created at 7:00 am, we wouldn't be able to see stars for another 4 years. You're faking memory's, not changing the laws of physics. You see just photons. Stars of them will be created 4 years later. 1 hour ago, MiffedStarfish said: what do say to rocks dated to have existed before that? And to jazz having existed before the rock(s). 1 hour ago, mikegarrison said: Bertrand Russell's teapot might also be floating around in the Oort cloud Somebody must at last send a teapot into the Oort cloud. This will allow us to get sure if it exists. That solar probe looks an ideal candidate for me. 7 years (?) of gravity slalom, then 200 km/s and after ten years there is a proven Russell teapot. Edited April 15, 2017 by kerbiloid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 (edited) 14 minutes ago, kerbiloid said: Somebody must at last send a teapot into the Oort cloud. This will allow us to get sure if it exists. That solar probe looks an ideal candidate for me. 7 years (?) of gravity slalom, then 200 km/s and after ten years there is a proven Russell teapot. Just to be completely, unnecessarily pedantic, Russell's teapot is actually supposed to be between Earth and Mars, nowhere as exciting and distant as the Oort cloud. Also, since the inner edge of the Oort cloud is - by many estimates - almost a light year away, then even the Solar Probe is not going to get there any time soon. Edited April 15, 2017 by Steel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nibb31 Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 (edited) Can you prove to me that you are not just a simulated AI designed to make us think that you are a real person asking a question on a forum? Bet you can't !!! Edited April 15, 2017 by Nibb31 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Kerman Posted April 15, 2017 Author Share Posted April 15, 2017 @Nibb31 I'm an alien!!! @YNM yep no real difference @Brotoro prove that you did @Green Baron yeah basically what you said. Mostly i was saying if you can't prove it wrong doesn't mean it's right such as (please don't be offended anyone) religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevenperforce Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 I think everyone is coming down a little overly hard on @Orion Kerman. He has nowhere suggested that he actually believes in this particular strain of Omphalos/Last Thursdayism; he simply proposed a common-enough paradox and asked everyone to discuss it. I suspect that versions of Last Thursdayism are every bit as ancient as Xeno's paradox. Offering proofs in the form of radiometric dating or memory or any other piece of evidence demonstrates a lack of understanding of the paradox. By definition, physical evidence of the past is simply part of the illusory creation. The OP is correct to not accept those things, because they don't actually prove anything. The OP isn't saying those things are false (and the OP hasn't even suggested the universe was actually created at all; the question is merely for the sake of this paradox), only that they fail to demonstrate anything for these purposes. It's a legitimate paradox: you cannot prove a negative, particularly one like Omphalos. Yet it seems like you should be able to, right? No reason to fault the OP for pointing this out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Green Baron Posted April 15, 2017 Share Posted April 15, 2017 (edited) Alright. But you must really throw away all that you've learned from late childhood on and give in to the simple way of believing a single thought. Also, calling for a proof of an obviously silly claim (and that's what it is to assume the world created this morning) is bad conduit and manipulative. Usually the claimer must make plausible what sprung off his mind, that is what modern philosophy demands. Read Karl Popper for example. Natural science is even more strict, it needs a hypothesis that has a reasonable base and can be verified or negated, maybe not right away but in the future. Ok, and now, sir, woud you expand a little on the claim of the op and formulate a hypothesis that we can discuss about ? Or will the Langoliers come and eat it all up ;-) Edit: not attacking you personally, OP, trying to give some "ammo" to people caught in such "discussions". Edited April 15, 2017 by Green Baron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Kerman Posted April 15, 2017 Author Share Posted April 15, 2017 There not being mean there just saying what they think. I will try and make a better way of doing this paradox to make it more interesting. And however asked why is this in science and spacecraft it's because this is science Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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