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=TKOL= The King of Laythe Challenge (BDArmory 3vs3 KOH AI Duels: Sci-fi future weapons)

jrodriguez
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jrodriguez

jrodriguez

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AkTm4Tr.jpg

 

=TKOL= The King of Laythe Challenge (BDArmory 3 vs 3 AI Duels)

This is 3 vs 3 sci-fi aircraft duels, taking off from Laythe's ocean and firing future weapons.

YOUTUBE PLAYLIST

Current King of the Laythe: @jrodriguez - Z-Type Mang Class Rev1

Number of Wins: 2

DoctorDavinci - Kajiu-P2 - DEFEATED 

SuicidalInsanity - Sea Kestrel - DEFEATED 

------------------------------------------
Registered belligerents:

Mods allowed:
B9AnimationModules
B9PartSwitch
B9 Aerospace
B9 Procedural Wings
BDArmory
Firespitter
FutureWeapons
JSI
KerbalJointReinforcement
OPT
ProceduralParts
TweakScale

BDMk22

Submit Rules:

  • Your craft should be added to the TKOL hangar https://kerbalx.com/hangars/18442
  • Your plane should be able to take off from water!
  • The max part limit is 70.
  • Only weapons from Future Weapons part pack is allowed - Don't forget to add power to your future weapons otherwise it will not shoot!.
  • Turrets should have angles fixed with 0 º.
  • Test your craft against the current King of Laythe before posting!
  • Recommend weapons: x10 laser cannon and old fixed laser.
  • Recommend fuel for a minimum of 5 mins at full throttle.

Challenge Rules:

- Challenges to the King of the Hill will be processed on a first-come first-served basis.

- The first winning 3 rounds wins.

- This challenge will end when all contestants registered have been defeated.

- To win a round or claim title to King of Laythe, one of your surviving craft must:

  • Still under AI control and flying without issues (It is not about to crash...)
  • Still appear on the VS list in the BDA GUI (your weapons module hasn't been shot off)
  • if there are no survivors with all the above, the round will be considered a draw, and a new round required.

- In case of a draw or bugged round, a round will be added to the match.

- Only AI and Weapons Manager changes are permitted to the TKOL champion between matches to fine-tune their AI response to upcoming challengers. No other part changes are permitted to the TKOL champion.

- All challengers are permitted to make any changes they wish to their craft up to and just before their match vs the current TKOL champion.

Edited by jrodriguez
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SpannerMonkey(smce)

SpannerMonkey(smce)

Posted
Posted

Hi cool challenge, love the title graphic.

I'm going to ask as it's not mentioned, I know as  a sometime resident of Laythe that suitable areas on land for aircraft launch are limited, I also note that in the graphic ALL the craft are sitting in the water, IS this a seaplane contest? Is there a dry ;launch option?  If it is a seaplane comp, that is you have to be able to take off from the water, can the floats be dropped after launch?  or do they have to stay attached?   I can foresee that if they can be dropped this will cause extra flight work for the host as you/they'll need to manually cycle through and drop the floats of every eligible craft,  How does the AI handle wet launch take offs? I know it can cope with a dozen aircraft on land but have no experience of the AI with seaplanes.

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DoctorDavinci

DoctorDavinci

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46 minutes ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

IS this a seaplane contest?

Methinks it is

47 minutes ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

I can foresee that if they can be dropped this will cause extra flight work for the host as you/they'll need to manually cycle through and drop the floats of every eligible craft,

You can attach the floats (if you use floats) to decouplers that have been set to stage when the landing gear is triggered (Should still work without landing gear on the craft) ... That is if decoupling floats is allowed

51 minutes ago, SpannerMonkey(smce) said:

How does the AI handle wet launch take offs? I know it can cope with a dozen aircraft on land but have no experience of the AI with seaplanes.

It handles it quite nicely ... You don't even need floats :cool:

 

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jrodriguez

jrodriguez

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Yes it is a seaplane contest :)

Regarding dropping floats - I'm thinking that considering this is Laythe,  it would not make sense to begin a military mission there  without a proper floating system for each of your planes? So a new rule for the challenge can be that the plane should not drop any part during take off. Do you agree?

 

On a different note.I'm thinking to add some constraints to the number and type of weapons. I think that if there is no restrictions then the combats can end very quickly (maybe even during the first engage).

I would like to add more variability to the challenge, providing a X number of "weapons points" per Y tons of weight, so the heavier is your craft more weapons and types you can place on it (eg: if you seaplane weights 100 tns then you can have enough points to place 2 x no-fixed dual turbo lasers turrets but if your plane only weights 5 tons then you can only add 2 x old fixed laser turrets or 1 x x10 laser...)

--EDIT--

I've change my mind, let's keep it simple.

Edited by jrodriguez
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KenjiKrafts

KenjiKrafts

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I have put my plane into the hangar, the turbo lasers are pivot-able so would this be a problem when engaging because aerial combat is really just who can turn on who faster, so swivelling turrets would just shoot during the turn cycles, I would not also just remove BDA either.
Sidenote : How many weapons does future weapons add because I only got four and the powersupply? 
Either way again it's there now armed with four old fixed turrets, 15T btw :D 

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jrodriguez

jrodriguez

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3 hours ago, KenjiKrafts said:

I have put my plane into the hangar, the turbo lasers are pivot-able so would this be a problem when engaging because aerial combat is really just who can turn on who faster, so swivelling turrets would just shoot during the turn cycles, I would not also just remove BDA either.
Sidenote : How many weapons does future weapons add because I only got four and the powersupply? 
Either way again it's there now armed with four old fixed turrets, 15T btw :D 

Nice! You are going to be the first King of Laythe :) .

- Regarding the pivotable turbo lasers, the current rules state that every turret should be modified to have 0 degrees of movement.

- Regarding the Future Weapons list, you just need to click the advance tab inside Hangar and then click on "Filter by Manufacturer" you will see a "?" tab called FutureWeapons

 

Edited by jrodriguez
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KenjiKrafts

KenjiKrafts

Posted
Posted
37 minutes ago, jrodriguez said:

Nice! You are going to be the first King of Laythe :) .

- Regarding the pivotable turbo lasers, the current rules state that every turret should be modified to have 0 degrees of movement.

- Regarding the Future Weapons list, you just need to click the advance tab inside Hangar and then click on "Filter by Manufacturer" you will see a "?" tab called FutureWeapons

 

Thank you very much it has clarified that, Would my Plane be allowed 6 OLD cannons??? 

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jrodriguez

jrodriguez

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2 hours ago, jrodriguez said:

As long as your plane is not over the limit of 70 parts you are fine :)

@KenjiKrafts I've testing your craft and I think you didn't read the rules well enough :) . Your craft should be able to take off from water and currently it is not. You need to amend your craft.

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KenjiKrafts

KenjiKrafts

Posted
Posted
8 minutes ago, jrodriguez said:

I'm thinking to lower the max limit of parts to 50 and go for a 4 vs 4? What do you think?

@Aerolfos nice to see you here

No don't xD

1 hour ago, jrodriguez said:

@KenjiKrafts I've testing your craft and I think you didn't read the rules well enough :) . Your craft should be able to take off from water and currently it is not. You need to amend your craft.

Doing it now :D

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TorchedForever

TorchedForever

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Posted

Great idea for a challenge! I need to go dust off some jet designs, look into the mods, and get cracking. So much to learn about the parts and different dynamics of Laythe. It will be interesting to see what you all come up with!

 

I've got some random thoughts about the challenge in the spoiler below, but it's pretty much a wall-of-text.

Spoiler

Anyway, as much as I can understand the appeal of going with fewer restrictions than the old ASC challenges, I'm not sure if it will work. I'd need to do some research into B9 and Future Weapons before I could back this up with any evidence, but I can still make some claims based on the old threads. No restrictions generally means you get a mixture of what's expected and people with crazy ideas. Looking back to the original ASC (different weapons but similar low limits) there was a mix of things you would classify as fighter jets and weaponized airliners. The two potential weird designs that could disrupt the nature of this challenge are big parts and reaction wheels. Big parts (especially heat resistant ones for SSTOs) allow for designs with a much greater ability to withstand fire than they should. I haven't tested the new weapons so I can't say if this is effective enough to create problems, but it is something to keep in mind. The inclusion of OPT especially has me worried of giant crafts that win through sheer survivability. This showed up in ASC I but part of that success was based in the allowance of turrets. The turret-ban should, in theory, keep the focus of fast and light. Another possible design extreme, that is probably more practical and more likely to show up, is using reaction wheels to build overly effective turn-fighters. It's pretty easy for free torque to make even a mediocre design turn like a fine-tuned craft. It takes the focus away from the actual wing design and careful considerations. If I remember correctly, the use of reaction wheels were part of the success of the VulcaRaptor of ASC II fame. Again, this is all just initial speculation, so if any of you with more experience with the mods could correct my theories, that would be great. I think the challenge is probably fine as it stands, but if this ends up being as long-lasting as the old ASCs it might be important to keep these things in mind.

TL:DR sometimes greater restrictions on weapon count and which parts you can use contributes to a healthier challenge

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DoctorDavinci

DoctorDavinci

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Posted
1 hour ago, JollyGreenGI said:

So quick question. Why is JSI a required mod? Is it a dependency for OPT or B9? As far as I can tell, it's an aesthetic mod for transparent cockpit canopies.

It isn't required

On Saturday, April 22, 2017 at 3:28 PM, jrodriguez said:

Mods allowed:

B9AnimationModules
B9PartSwitch
B9 Aerospace
B9 Procedural Wings
BDArmory
Firespitter
FutureWeapons
JSI
KerbalJointReinforcement
OPT
ProceduralParts
TweakScale

BDMk22

It says 'mods allowed' .... nothing about a requirement 

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jrodriguez

jrodriguez

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Hi all,

I'm closing the inception phase now and the challenge is ready to run.

@KenjiKrafts I will add your entry to the list as soon as you have fixed it.

Current King of the Laythe: @jrodriguez - Z-Type Mang Class Rev1

Number of Wins: 0

------------------------------------------
Registered belligerents:

Now, I will defend the title of King of the Laythe against @DoctorDavinci :)

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njmksr

njmksr

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Is the mod list able to be expanded, or is that it? I have some designs, but most of them use SXT and QuizTech.

Anyway, if OPT's on there, I've got a behemoth of a plane carrying 32 PAC-3s onboard.

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KenjiKrafts

KenjiKrafts

Posted
Posted
1 hour ago, jrodriguez said:

Hi all,

I'm closing the inception phase now and the challenge is ready to run.

@KenjiKrafts I will add your entry to the list as soon as you have fixed it.

Current King of the Laythe: @jrodriguez - Z-Type Mang Class Rev1

Number of Wins: 0

------------------------------------------
Registered belligerents:

Now, I will defend the title of King of the Laythe against @DoctorDavinci :)

Probably later this morning :D 

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jrodriguez

jrodriguez

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Posted (edited)
33 minutes ago, njmksr said:

Is the mod list able to be expanded, or is that it? I have some designs, but most of them use SXT and QuizTech.

Anyway, if OPT's on there, I've got a behemoth of a plane carrying 32 PAC-3s onboard.

I don't mind to add SXT and QuizTech to the list. But regarding weapons the only allowed for this Sci-Fi challenge are "Future Weapons" parts :).

And also remember that your plane should be able to take off from water!

I have changed the submit rules in case you want to update your fuel amount. Before I was recommending 15 min.  @DoctorDavinci

Submit Rules:

  • Recommend fuel for a minimum of 5 mins at full throttle.
Edited by jrodriguez
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