cubinator Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Plot twist: it's Raptor 181 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lukaszenko Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 40 minutes ago, mikegarrison said: Oh, yeah, he's the only one who ever wanted people to go to Mars. Guess I forgot how important he is. I'll give him credit for spending a lot of his own money on this (although I kind of don't think anyone should have that much money in the first place). I'm really struggling to wrap my mind around the sarcasm. I mean, everybody wants many things. I want that sweet pair of sneakers, but do I want it bad enough to spend 70 bucks? Meh. How many people I heard say "Ooooh that's so cool I always wanted to learn French!" Awesome. "I always wanted to go skydiving!" Cool. "I always wanted to be a professional football player!" Nice. I'd guess less people don't want these things than do. However, the ones that actually invest the time, money, or effort to even try to attain them deserve at least a bit of respect more than the ones that merely "want" them. For a guy to "want" to go to Mars, and then to actually sit down and learn everything there is (and isn't) to be known about rockets, spend billions to design them and build them, and then overturn the global concept of what it means to go to space in an effort to achieve this? Yes, I would say that's pretty special. I mean "special" in a purely statistical sense. For a guy to actually be the type of person who has the emotional and intellectual means, to get the financial means, to even semi-seriously consider these things in the first place? I'd venture to say that's also pretty special. For a guy to do and be a combination of both? Well that has to be, statistically, even more special. And yes, by definition in the context of getting to Mars, even "important". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Looks unambiguously like 3 characters to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YNM Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 (edited) How many engines are they producing now on average in a given period ? Assuming they started in like 2016 that'd be up to 181 engines in 5 years (so 5 per month) but should be a lot faster. Edited June 7, 2021 by YNM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beccab Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Just now, YNM said: How many engines are they producing now on average in a given period ? 3 per month ? 5 ? Approaching one every two days Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YNM Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Just now, Beccab said: Approaching one every two days Yeah I just remembered that post. Funny how you look at something, see something else again and then forget it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 They had said in 2019 they hoped for 1 per day in 2020, which they have not achieved yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spaceman.Spiff Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 21 minutes ago, tater said: 3 characters Perhaps they skipped a series of engine designations like with the Starships to signify a greater change? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikegarrison Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lukaszenko said: I'm really struggling to wrap my mind around the sarcasm. I mean, everybody wants many things. I want that sweet pair of sneakers, but do I want it bad enough to spend 70 bucks? Meh. How many people I heard say "Ooooh that's so cool I always wanted to learn French!" Awesome. "I always wanted to go skydiving!" Cool. "I always wanted to be a professional football player!" Nice. I'd guess less people don't want these things than do. However, the ones that actually invest the time, money, or effort to even try to attain them deserve at least a bit of respect more than the ones that merely "want" them. For a guy to "want" to go to Mars, and then to actually sit down and learn everything there is (and isn't) to be known about rockets, spend billions to design them and build them, and then overturn the global concept of what it means to go to space in an effort to achieve this? Yes, I would say that's pretty special. I mean "special" in a purely statistical sense. For a guy to actually be the type of person who has the emotional and intellectual means, to get the financial means, to even semi-seriously consider these things in the first place? I'd venture to say that's also pretty special. For a guy to do and be a combination of both? Well that has to be, statistically, even more special. And yes, by definition in the context of getting to Mars, even "important". To put it bluntly, while I'm keen on space travel, I actually have more respect for spending your billion dollars on something like ending malaria deaths. However, I do see Musk as having some kind of desire to turn the world into more of a SF utopia, with electric cars and rockets to Mars and all that. I mean, it's better than just competing over who has the biggest megayacht. Also, I think you are way overestimating his "learning everything there is to be known about rockets". That's what the money is for -- to hire people who know that stuff for him. Edited June 7, 2021 by mikegarrison Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RCgothic Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 (edited) If you've read anything about how he runs his companies you'd know he learns as much detail about everything as he can and that the buck for technical decisions stops with him. He doesn't delegate those decisions. He knows enough to make them himself. That man is a machine. Edited June 7, 2021 by RCgothic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevenperforce Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 A nice little rocket engine primer for anyone who wonders why rocket science is complicated...reposted because the first one didn't load. (Posting here because I’m using the Kestrel and Merlin 1D as inspiration.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YNM Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 1 hour ago, mikegarrison said: That's what the money is for -- to hire people who know that stuff for him. Yep. There's a good reason this company have "SpaceX's rocket" in their site. 1 hour ago, RCgothic said: He doesn't delegate those decisions. He knows enough to make them himself. That man is a machine. If anything that makes it sounds worse... but it's often how it is with "one-man" stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrandedonEarth Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 20 minutes ago, YNM said: If anything that makes it sounds worse... but it's often how it is with "one-man" stuff. Have you read “Liftoff” by Eric Berger yet? Good read. I think the gist of that decision making comment was not that Musk makes all the decisions. It meant that when it came to the difficult and/or risky/dangerous decisions, he had the technical knowledge make the final decision himself. He didn’t get mad if they destroyed hardware if they cleared things with him first. The buck stopped at the top Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted June 7, 2021 Share Posted June 7, 2021 Anyone who wants to get more money for some other endeavor is welcome to do it. People buy products because they benefit from them (on whatever level). People invest in companies for the same reason. It's also not zero sum, new products create new markets and new wealth. I'm singularly unconcerned with how much money anyone else has as long as they are not taking it from me at gunpoint. I also don't particularly care about any particular pet humanitarian project. In the grand scheme of things, if Musk spends every penny he has on SpaceX/Mars, it's noise. US sports teams (NBA/NFL/MLB/NHL) generate about $40B/yr. For sportsball/sportscylinder.lol. Anyone concerned about SpaceX spending a billion or 2 a year? Meh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YNM Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 26 minutes ago, StrandedonEarth said: It meant that when it came to the difficult and/or risky/dangerous decisions, he had the technical knowledge make the final decision himself. He didn’t get mad if they destroyed hardware if they cleared things with him first. The buck stopped at the top That's often how the stories go for many architectural / structural stuff as well, obviously everyone will have the data at that point and you can inquire everything and stuff, they just need to sign it to make it official. And since private companies bent on minimizing cost through mass production will certainly want everything from their own / the widest market possible then it makes sense that Elon will have had to oversee nearly everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 A level people hire A level people. B level people hire C level people. Elon seems to try to hire A level people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceFace545 Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 20 minutes ago, tater said: A level people hire A level people. B level people hire C level people. Elon seems to try to hire A level people. what does that mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeSchmuckatelli Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 Let me put a different spin on this: It's harder to have people BS you, if you are a subject matter expert. Does not mean you have to be the absolute most talented guy in the room - but you have to be able to speak his language, so that when he say's 'it can't be done', you know the difference between 'it's too difficult / expensive / I don't know how to do it' and 'it violates the basic principles of physics'. Put it a different way. Two billionaires walk into a room. They both tell everyone they plan on building space ships. One tells everyone he's going to hire really talented people, and do things the way they've always been done, because it just works. The other guy says he's going to hire really talented people and completely flip the script. Do stuff that 20 years ago would have seemed impossible and not only do the impossible - but keep doing impossible things over and over again. All the first guy has to do is hire really intelligent people to do what they've always done, and he'll make some money with his new hobby. The other guy has to either convince people that they can think outside of the box... or fire those people who refuse to. Innovation is really, really hard. It takes guts. It takes a willingness to fail, spectacularly and keep trying until you get it right. Managers do the safe thing. Entrepreneurs do the risky thing. Bezos was an entrepreneur, once. Musk hasn't stopped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) 56 minutes ago, SpaceFace545 said: what does that mean? People who are highly capable are not afraid of other highly capable people, so they hire them. People who are less capable don't want to hire people that might outshine them. Edited June 8, 2021 by tater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceFace545 Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, tater said: People who are highly capable are not afraid of other highly capable people, so they hire them. People who are less capable don't want to hire people that might outshine them. Ha, that’s hilarious Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tater Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 To be clear, I edited to add "highly" in front of capable, the B level people are not idiots, they can do the job, but they are not exceptional. Their judgement of skill in people under them might be less astute, and they also might actively look to avoid people who might take their job later. Just now, SpaceFace545 said: Ha, that’s hilarious Also, often true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sevenperforce Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 (edited) And, three rocket science videos back to back.... (okay so this forum embed function is NOT working properly, so I'm going to post links) Rocket Science Sunday 4 (Why Are Mach Diamonds?) Rocket Science Starts Simple From RL-10 to Raptor -- Power Cycles Everyday Astronauts is great and all but I can do it in under two minutes, so..... Edited June 8, 2021 by sevenperforce Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silavite Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 1 hour ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said: Let me put a different spin on this: It's harder to have people BS you, if you are a subject matter expert. Does not mean you have to be the absolute most talented guy in the room - but you have to be able to speak his language, so that when he say's 'it can't be done', you know the difference between 'it's too difficult / expensive / I don't know how to do it' and 'it violates the basic principles of physics'. This reminds me of when I was reading George P. Sutton's obituary (the author of Rocket Propulsion Elements): Quote Sutton’s book, Elements of Rocket Propulsion – first published in 1949 and updated continuously with a second printing of the 9ᵗʰ edition due out in December 2020 – has informed, maddened and inspired rocket scientists and aerospace engineers. SpaceX engineers tell stories of their CEO admonishing them, “Don't tell me it cannot be done. George Sutton says it can be done!” Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatastrophicFailure Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 51 minutes ago, sevenperforce said: okay so this forum embed function is NOT working properly, so I'm going to post links Seem to be embedding just fine from here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kerbiloid Posted June 8, 2021 Share Posted June 8, 2021 2 hours ago, tater said: People who are less capable don't want to hire people that might outshine them. That's why we keep hearing only about the Musk's rockets, without further personal detalization. (Just because he is the brightest rocket specialist in his company.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.