KSP Interstellar Extended Continued Development Thread

[okder]

having black screen(actually gui is visible, but craft and planets - not) crash with Attila engines (symmetric pair for plane "wings") in latest version

actually several seconds after activation those engines

or immediately after fuel type switches to mono-propellant (with nans in stat)

bug still in 1.10.4, just change propellant type (to mono-propellant from liquid fuel in my case in upper atmosphere of kerbin for Attila and your craft and planet will vanish, till crash   2 min later, again ATTILA mirror - symetrical normally(not radially) mounted, no throttle (0,"x") while changing, change is manually on one of two engines , if that's important )

 

 

P.S. should Direct nuclear turbojet (engine and reactor) provide power without generator?

 

 

Edited October 6, 2016 by okder

[FreeThinker]

@okder To anwer to your question is 0.

KSP engine don't like 0, that why you sometimes get NaN problems or engines that produce thrust even witout any engines attached. It all comes down to KSP engine inability to handle woth 0 or very small numbers, which for unknown reasons is rounded down to zerro.

[okder]

33 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

@okder To anwer to your question is 0.

KSP engine don't like 0, that why you sometimes get NaN problems or engines that produce thrust even witout any engines attached. It all comes down to KSP engine inability to handle woth 0 or very small numbers, which for unknown reasons is rounded down to zerro.

well i am talking about crash, not about weird numbers, i just saying that in time when propellant switching engine is offline using throttling, may be it's important for you to reproduce bug, so i mentioned it, it's not a question.

another bug: pebble bed reactor can't be resarched (purchased as entry in tech tree), as soon as you go in VAB it's undo, (but money is wasted), so there is no way how to use that reactor, because old version can't be placed.

[FreeThinker]

Just now, okder said:

another bug: pebble bed reactor can't be resarched (purchased as entry in tech tree), as soon as you go in VAB it's undo, (but money is wasted), so there is no way how to use that reactor, because old version can't be placed.

MM, yes, added a new version with an improved model, but I left the old enetry allone, a possible solution would be to try remove the old version and replace the name of the new pebblebed by the old pebblebed reactor.

Technically they are they same, they only difference is their model ...

[FreeThinker]

5 hours ago, brandon3055 said:

Possibly related issue. If i try to switch propellant on the ATTILA engine then activate it (Or switch propellant while its active) i get a NaN infection which ultimately crashes the game. 

crash.dmp: https://puu.sh/rzrs7/0d6172f199.dmp
error.log: https://puu.sh/rzrt6/c998fa63b3.log
output_log.txt: https://puu.sh/rzrvo/2b36decd02.txt

I also tested the plasma thruster and has the same issue.

Yes, I suspect they are all the same bug. What happens is that the amount of atmospheric presure causes the maximum thrust to become zero. KSP 1.2 Engine don't like 0 or very small numbers (which are rounded down to 0).  THe Engine then uses the maximum thrust in some kind of internal devision and a divide by zero results, causing the vessel to warp to vessel to the great void.

5 hours ago, brandon3055 said:

 Just found another little bug. If you shut down a generator as the charge buffers drain the caps for those buffers also go down. Reactivating the generator dose not fix this rendering the generator useless. 

Stickly speaking this is not a bug but an advanced physics feature. The magajoule bugger is a virtual buffer than represent the peak capacity a generator can suppply durring a single frame. If you cut the power, it will evaportate in a matter of seconds. When the power is down, processes like Fusion reactors that require power, will lose magnetic containment causing all power gnerating to be lost as well. If you now try to restart the generator, it will horibly fail because the connecter reactor is no longer producing raw power.

To maintain/store some power, use super capacitators that maintain Megajoule for a long time.(not indefinate). The supper capacitators can also be charged with regular power, allowing you to restart a fusion engine using only a single solar panel. It will take you a long time to fully charge the super capacitators, but it is possible.

Edited October 6, 2016 by FreeThinker

[FreeThinker]

15 hours ago, NeverEnoughFuel!! said:

 Now one question, is Microwave Rectenna only one capable of transmitting i.e. "sending" power? If so, how the heck we are going to launch it to orbit? I tried others transmitters  but the transmit option is always "false"...

In order to transmit power, you need to connect them to a compatible beam generator. There are 3 types of beam generator, one fore  Microwave, Infrared Laser and UV Laser. Only the FELA (the big reflecting dish)  can use all 3 types. Also note when landed only pivoting dishes are capable of transmitting, in orbit they even non pivoting dishes can transmit when connected to a beam generator.

Edited October 6, 2016 by FreeThinker

[NeverEnoughFuel!!]

3 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

In order to transmit power, you need to connect them to a compatible beam generator. There are 3 types of beam generator, one fore  Microwave, Infrared Laser and UV Laser. Only the FELA (the big reflecting dish)  can use all 3 types. Also note when landed only pivoting dishes are capable of transmitting, in orbit they even non pivoting dishes can transmit when connected to a beam generator.

I don't have those parts... where are they in the tech tree? My version of game is 1.1.3 with KSPI version 1.9.11?

Edit:

I searched for those parts in .zip of KSPI 1.9.11 and there are no any... but in version for 1.2 pre release they are there ... so the question is would copying these parts in my microwave folder work?

Edited October 6, 2016 by NeverEnoughFuel!!

[FreeThinker]

@NeverEnoughFuel!! No, they would not have any effect, as they are an entirely new mechanic

If you so desperately want them to be able to transmit you could always make a few modification in the config file, you can use the rectenna as a template ...

19 hours ago, NeverEnoughFuel!! said:

I support that idea... prices are really too much... for somebody who plays sandbox only it doesn't matter... I'm playing since 1.0.3 and the biggest amount of money earned so far is 5 million...

Now I would like to report some problems... first, I have terrible time with staging round "ball" tanks and "wrapper" tanks, engines (thermal rocket, hybrid jet etc simply don't "see" them) ... sometimes it works as it should but most of the times it doesn't. Second, round tanks when jettisoned in orbit spam debris... I had four of them but the number somehow grew to 103... don't know is this the game itself (since I had staging problems before KSPI tanks).

There are several mods that can deal with the debris stock problem, the most simple will simply remove any part that touches the atmosphere, more advanced can degrade debris in orbit over time, causing them to enter the atmosphere and get destroyed

[NeverEnoughFuel!!]

12 minutes ago, FreeThinker said:

If you so desperately want them to be able to transmit you could always make a few modification in the config file, you can use the rectenna as a template ...

Change "false" to "true"? Ok, but in this state in 1.1.3 microwave network is practically crippled...

[Blackline]

@FreeThinker two things: 1) naming of the downloaded file for 1.10.4 is wrong 2) the contained folders are different, any reason for that? I just tried it again, and now it works ?!? Curse you, CURSE!

Edited October 6, 2016 by Blackline

[Blackline]

so the "Open Cycle Gas Core Ractor" kraken is gone now, but that engine is still very unstable in 1.2. The ThermalPower Lever is going nuts, and will only start to build up if launched by boosters?!?

1) Trying to Launch, no power:

2) firing up boosters, still nothing:

3) boosters burned -> Thermal Power genarated:

4) 5 seconds later, exploding engine from overheating...

[FreeThinker]

@Blackline Note the The Open Cycle Gas Core Reactor can't function well when under high gravity. It loses containment which will make the molten uranium get in contact with the nozzle and spew out deadly uranium at an alarming rate causing the the engine to overheat and  the environment to be highly radiated for thousands of years upsetting everybody on Kerbin!

The main purpose of the gas core reactor is for orbital transfer for large multi mission planetary vessels, they combine high power with an average high Isp, a rare combination, which comes at the cost of flexibility. Don't use during launch except for low gravity moons like minimus.  At best you might be able to use them as the last stage to get into Kerbin orbit, but at no circumstance should you use then in an atmosphere..

A better altermative would be the Closed Cycle Gas Core Reactor, a.k.a the Light Bulb. The engine does not supper from all the ptoblems of the Open Cucle Gas core and there makes it much more suitable for launch with some booster assists. OF cource the trade off is significantly lower Isp, but it is still a lot better then the Solid Core NUclear Engine a.k.a the NERVA or Partible bed reactor engine, a.k.a Timwer Wind reactors

 

Edited October 6, 2016 by FreeThinker

[Jimbodiah]

@Blackline where did you get those radiators?

[Blackline]

@Jimbodiah the top ones are the foldable from interstellar, and the bottom ones i think are the convecting ones, from interstellar as well.

@Freethinker holy cow, and i belive thats not even an fade excuse :-) is this documented anyhwere? And i guess thats the reason why it throttles down power during high acceleration... 

Edit asks: why then is it working with 1.1.3? u were kidding, right?

 

Edited October 6, 2016 by Blackline

[schlosrat]

On 10/5/2016 at 8:07 AM, FreeThinker said:

@schlosrat

The message is a warning that is shown whenever power buffer is low (which happens when drained maximal) and more power is requested than can be generated. In the case of charging for the QSR it is false alarm.

Looking at the picture it seems you have everything right except for the last direct energy converter at the back, it should not be functional but still could cause poblems (like divide by zerro). What is weird is that I don't see any wasteheat,while there should be plenty. Next time you make a sceen dump, make sure you include the status of a radiator. Have you checked for errors in the log

Thanks, I've tried again - this time with the 1564 build. Same results, and I've modified the design so there is only one thermal generator and only one charged particle generator. As before, there's a 5M dusty plasma, two 5m super capacitors, and a bit more than 160 GW of radiators. This time I've got one of the radiators selected so you can see what's going on with that part too.

Basically, I'm getting the same thing. It charges up (now to 90.6 GW), I get the dreaded warning, and then it quickly fizzles. Here's the shot of that.

http://imgur.com/oZp82KR

I am getting errors in the log, but I don't know why, or if they're related. When I pull up the debug menu I see many repeated identical red lines that say "Exception: MissingFieldException: Field '.MapView.MapIsEnabled' not found." with an occasional white line of text that reads "DragCubeSystem: Rendering procedural drag for KspiQuantumSingularityReactor2"

http://imgur.com/yoPbJb4

The mods I've got are KSPI, PreciseNode, KerbalEngineer, KerboKatz.

Any thoughts?

[FreeThinker]

@schlosrat Try the following config

QSR | TG | FFR | CPG + radiators

TG = Thermal Generator

FFR = Fission Fragment Reactor a.k.a Dusty Plasma

CPG = Charged Particle Generator

 

Edited October 6, 2016 by FreeThinker

[FreeThinker]

42 minutes ago, Blackline said:

Edit asks: why then is it working with 1.1.3? u were kidding, right?

The buoyancy effects in the open cycle gas core reactor have been here active for a long time, what is new is the overheating, but that technically a new side effect from the low Isp, but non zero maximum thrust (which was needed to prevent the engine from being send into the void)

[schlosrat]

3 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

@schlosrat Try the following config

QSR | TG | FFR | CPG + radiators

TG = Thermal Generator

FFR = Fission Fragment Reactor a.k.a Dusty Plasma

CPG = Charged Particle Generator

 

Thanks! That seems to have worked. Also, I removed all the mods other than KSPI and that got rid of the exception messages that were in the log. It didn't fixe the startup of the QSR though. but redesigning it according to your suggestion did.

I'm curious why that made a difference though? It's not obvious to me why this configuration works but the other one didn't, and I'd like to know so that I can avoid the problem in the future.

Thanks!

[FreeThinker]

@schlosrat The reason is the QSR is a self contained reactor, it cannot be connected with a thermal and charged particle reactor. attempt to this might even be counter productive and cause error (not verified). The fission fragment reactor does need generators and they must be connected on both sides to be effective.

Edited October 7, 2016 by FreeThinker

[schlosrat]

5 hours ago, FreeThinker said:

@schlosrat The reason is the QSR is a self contained reactor, it cannot be connected with a thermal and charged particle reactor. attempt to this might even be counter productive and cause error (not verified). The fission fragment reactor does need generators and they must be connected on both sides to be effective.

Ah ha! I didn't realize that from the description. Would it help to have something like a super capacitor or any other part between the QSR and the generator?

[FreeThinker]

1 minute ago, schlosrat said:

Ah ha! I didn't realize that from the description. Would it help to have something like a super capacitor or any other part between the QSR and the generator?

Well it might at least prevent it from connecting to an invalid part and therefore prevent errors. This might matter where the root is located.

Edited October 7, 2016 by FreeThinker

[schlosrat]

On 10/6/2016 at 9:12 AM, FreeThinker said:

In order to transmit power, you need to connect them to a compatible beam generator. There are 3 types of beam generator, one fore  Microwave, Infrared Laser and UV Laser. Only the FELA (the big reflecting dish)  can use all 3 types. Also note when landed only pivoting dishes are capable of transmitting, in orbit they even non pivoting dishes can transmit when connected to a beam generator.

I'm confused by this. I've re-built my QSR powersat and am able to get it to run - and with the Microwave Rectena I get a beamed power of 28GW, which appears to correspond to the output of the QSR + FFR. Seeing this post above I thought I should at least give the FELA a try, so I added a microwave beam generator and replaced the rectena with the FELA. There doesn't appear to be a button on it's control panel for enabling transmition - only for enabling reception.

http://imgur.com/sr409pl

What do I need to do to get the FELA to transmit?

[FreeThinker]

@schlosrat This is what your powersat should look like

Notice the Diode Laser Array Beam Generator is connected directly to the FELA, which will transmit the Infrared Laser beam into space. Infrared is ideally suited for sending power to thermal/infrared receivers at medium range and still has a fairly good atmospheric penetration ability.  microwave better suited for short range transmission while UV Laser Beam are suited best for long range. You may ask why not always use UV Laser, but the narrower wavelength comes at the cost of lower wall to beam conversion efficiency (both transmit and receive.

Edited October 7, 2016 by FreeThinker

[Sresk]

change of topic here if you don't mind. How are precoolers supposed to function in KSPI? I'm asking becuase I'm trying to play with the scram jet from mk2 expansion mod. The engine won't kick on until mach 4 and it's supposed to run all the way up to mach 15... but at mach 4 it get about 15kn of thrust and then over heats and shuts off. I've messed with precoolers and different altitudes to no effect. Are there settings I can turn down that effect how engines overheat?

[okder]

OMEGA can not be searched by it's name(though showed by word magnetized), and appears only in normal electrical tab (not in kspie reactors tab).

balance problems:

and looks like now it's useless unless you have almost complete techtree, (i.e. high twr fission reactors better than omega for twr)

as previously someone pointed out thermal ramjet nozzle is useless too (for my craft 2 small very indirectly connected turbojets allows speed 500 m/s, ramjet can't accelerate from that speed, but after accelerating to 650 it could keep 750 m/s, i think if i place only one turbojet  it will work better than ramjet in such conditions (750m/s), tested turbojets gives 700m/s )

initial tri-alpha 1.825 gives 600 mj, pebble bed 1593mj (with same tech level), again it (tri-alpha) useless for raw propulsion

 

Edited October 8, 2016 by okder