Career Mode at last

[Scarecrow]

Hi guys.  I've been playing KSP for quite a while now and feel that I am (at last) reasonably proficient.  I've successfully sent manned missions to all bodies of the system and even managed to bring them all back.  When career and science modes were added to the game, I had a look but found them too repetitive and too restrictive to hold my attention, and always reverted to Sandbox mode.  Just lately, however, I've been running out of ideas for my Sandbox adventures, so thought I would again try a Career mode game.

This time I have stuck with it.  I still find it a bit repetitive - I've lost count of how many Kerbonauts I have had to rescue from Kerbin or Mun orbit, and I'm surprised the cost of a flight hasn't diminished the numbers of tourists wanting to go for a ride - but I am now finding the part restriction is leading me to have to think of different ways of fulfilling a contract that, in Sandbox mode, would be an absolute piece of cake to accomplish.

So, for me, the game still has a lot of life left in it yet.

[ansaman]

I have played career mode for hundreds of hours and I have found that there is always a new way to build for any mission especially based on lessons learned and mods that add parts.  For example, I eventually developed a set parachute strategy with drogues and a main chute that was safe for the troops and kept me from having to sit out a long, slow decent.  Further, there are nearly endless variations of tanks and engines using solid rockets or asparagus staging.

I am one of those types that would run the same sort of mission dozens of times observing results and tuning for optimal performance and cost.

[NSEP]

I do not recommend doing career/science if you have been everywhere already in sandbox, instead try a modpack like Interstellar/Galileo Planet Pack/Realism Overhaul. That should spice things up alot and not be repetetive.

[Scarecrow]

Whilst I am not completely averse to mods - I use things like Alarm Clock, Engineer, Docking Indicator - I try and steer away from anything that changes the fundamental underlying essence of the game. 

[Foxster]

I tried yet again recently to complete a career playthrough.

Gave up again.

It always feels so boring to do those tedious rescue and testing missions and such.  

I still really enjoy a science playthrough though. I can finish it in a few hours and like to set myself some restrictions, like never landing on another body or not collecting any science on Kerbin. 

[StrandedonEarth]

The great thing about career is you don't have to take any contracts. I dont bother with survey contracts as those are long and tedious for minimum payout. I pick up castaways if they happen to be where I'm going. I do part tests when it makes sense to do so. Ditto bases and stations.

I'd love it if, after exploring the Mun, Minmus, and maybe Duna,  the "Explore" contracts for all the bodies were made available

[ble210]

6 hours ago, StrandedonEarth said:

The great thing about career is you don't have to take any contracts. I dont bother with survey contracts as those are long and tedious for minimum payout. I pick up castaways if they happen to be where I'm going. I do part tests when it makes sense to do so. Ditto bases and stations.

I'd love it if, after exploring the Mun, Minmus, and maybe Duna,  the "Explore" contracts for all the bodies were made available

Check out the Career Evolution Contract Pack.  It replaces the stock explore contracts with a much less tedious (and much more fun) set of contracts.

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by ble210

[samstarman5]

Tourists only get discouraged if your reputation is mud. If you are one point in the positive, to them you are the safest way to space to be found.  Just let them try to find the competition! *laughs solitarily*

@StrandedonEarth brings up a good point. You do not have to take on every contract.  Survey contracts are ideal if you are an avid aeronaut. But for me who prefers to fly ballistic, I got other things to do.  Tourist contracts are actually great because there are a lot of times there is another contract you can fulfill while taking them along.  And there is a lot of leeway in their itinerary. Plenty of players have used tourists who just wanted to hit orbit around Kerbin to add bodies to a station or Mun base.  Just remember you don't get paid until they are returned alive.  I was going to say safely but who does that?

[invision]

heres a tip to make some money.

space station contracts for kerblin, mun, minmus. make the cheapest station possible, make it able to land back on kerblin, fly it to where ever it needs to go and fulfill the contract. when check marks all lit up head back home with it, land it and collect your money back.

win/win

also another thing that saved me huge amounts of money was making a first stage rocket that could make full orbit and have enough fuel to land back at the space center. doing that on its own will save you 50k-100k every single launch

Edited July 18, 2017 by invision

[FungusForge]

2 minutes ago, invision said:

heres a tip to make some money.

space station contracts for kerblin, mun, minmus. make the cheapest station possible, make it able to land back on kerblin, fly it to where ever it needs to go and fulfill the contract. when check marks all lit up head back home with it, land it and collect your money back.

win/win

I more or less did that with probes at a point. Probe contracts were filled in bulk.

[WanderingKid]

3 hours ago, invision said:

also another thing that saved me huge amounts of money was making a first stage rocket that could make full orbit and have enough fuel to land back at the space center. doing that on its own will save you 50k-100k every single launch

50-100k for a first stage?  What are you launching?!  That's... expensive.  Like, huge space station expensive.

[Curveball Anders]

5 hours ago, samstarman5 said:

Tourists only get discouraged if your reputation is mud. If you are one point in the positive, to them you are the safest way to space to be found.  Just let them try to find the competition! *laughs solitarily*

@StrandedonEarth brings up a good point. You do not have to take on every contract.  Survey contracts are ideal if you are an avid aeronaut. But for me who prefers to fly ballistic, I got other things to do.  Tourist contracts are actually great because there are a lot of times there is another contract you can fulfill while taking them along.  And there is a lot of leeway in their itinerary. Plenty of players have used tourists who just wanted to hit orbit around Kerbin to add bodies to a station or Mun base.  Just remember you don't get paid until they are returned alive.  I was going to say safely but who does that?

I decline almost all survey missions, unless they're above atmosphere or on the ground. Also almost all gadget testing unless they can be done on the ground or in space (the altitude and speed ranges makes no sense unless it's on an plane, and I don't fly planes in KSP).

I accept all rescue missions since they provide me with cheap cannon fodder kerbonauts and almost all tourist contracts since they provide me with funds and can get bolted on to 'proper' missions.

An optimised rescue/gawker design is amongst the first things I do in every new career save and later on I keep transit hub (and later hubs) in orbit to make the trips as efficient (and cheap) as possible (even if that means that some poor tourists might be waiting for months, or even, years in a tin can waiting a suitable seat).

The only issue is that I quite often have to keep a sheet for all active kerbals. With where they are, what they are supposed to do and what they have done ...

[The Space Dino]

27 minutes ago, Curveball Anders said:

I decline almost all survey missions, unless they're above atmosphere or on the ground. Also almost all gadget testing unless they can be done on the ground or in space (the altitude and speed ranges makes no sense unless it's on an plane, and I don't fly planes in KSP).

I accept all rescue missions since they provide me with cheap cannon fodder kerbonauts and almost all tourist contracts since they provide me with funds and can get bolted on to 'proper' missions.

An optimised rescue/gawker design is amongst the first things I do in every new career save and later on I keep transit hub (and later hubs) in orbit to make the trips as efficient (and cheap) as possible (even if that means that some poor tourists might be waiting for months, or even, years in a tin can waiting a suitable seat).

The only issue is that I quite often have to keep a sheet for all active kerbals. With where they are, what they are supposed to do and what they have done ...

More like free donut eating kerbonauts that will probably be killed due to dino pilot.

[Cpt Kerbalkrunch]

@Scarecrow, glad you're takin' a real shot at career mode. Over 1,900 hours now and it's still all I've played. I really like the challenges it presents you with. You get nothing for free. You have to upgrade the KSC, get experience for your Kerbals (plus hire or rescue new ones), and unlock the tech tree; all while trying to make a profit. I think it's a blast.  As you've already seen, it'll teach you new ways to build because you're always watching the bottom line. And sometimes you go too cheap and end up paying the price later. And even when you have enough cash that it's no longer a concern, you'll still find yourself weighing contracts to see if it's worth it or not. But for those who dig sandbox, once your funds are at a comfortable level, you can do whatever you want. I run missions that are going to cost me a fortune just for fun (every mission to Eve is a money pit), while sending out other missions to complete contracts and pay the bills. I love almost everything about it.

I say almost because, like nearly everyone, I wish the contract system was just better overall. I want to give a nod here to @ble210 for digging up the career evolution mod. I read through the thread and it sounds pretty cool. I'm getting closer to finally starting a new career (cuz I can't really remember the early days, so I think it might be fun) and I think I'm actually going to add some mods this time to spice things up (I've been playing pure stock). I've been wanting to add the outer planets anyway (kinda waiting on the expansion at this point, in case it's a serious mod-breaker), and the others mentioned sound pretty good as well. Who knows? I might even get crazy and install KER. It'd be kinda nice to finally know my  and TWR. 

 

[suicidejunkie]

Getting your launch costs down is important.  $100k is a huge amount.  I only spend that much when I'm building a new blinged out RTG powered SSTO+M&M tour bus spaceplane.

Perhaps you need to consider using more low tech parts and/or permanent infrastructure to defray the costs?

[Scarecrow]

4 hours ago, Cpt Kerbalkrunch said:

@Scarecrow, glad you're takin' a real shot at career mode. Over 1,900 hours now and it's still all I've played. I really like the challenges it presents you with. You get nothing for free. You have to upgrade the KSC, get experience for your Kerbals (plus hire or rescue new ones), and unlock the tech tree; all while trying to make a profit. I think it's a blast.  As you've already seen, it'll teach you new ways to build because you're always watching the bottom line. And sometimes you go too cheap and end up paying the price later. And even when you have enough cash that it's no longer a concern, you'll still find yourself weighing contracts to see if it's worth it or not. But for those who dig sandbox, once your funds are at a comfortable level, you can do whatever you want. I run missions that are going to cost me a fortune just for fun (every mission to Eve is a money pit), while sending out other missions to complete contracts and pay the bills. I love almost everything about it.

I say almost because, like nearly everyone, I wish the contract system was just better overall. I want to give a nod here to @ble210 for digging up the career evolution mod. I read through the thread and it sounds pretty cool. I'm getting closer to finally starting a new career (cuz I can't really remember the early days, so I think it might be fun) and I think I'm actually going to add some mods this time to spice things up (I've been playing pure stock). I've been wanting to add the outer planets anyway (kinda waiting on the expansion at this point, in case it's a serious mod-breaker), and the others mentioned sound pretty good as well. Who knows? I might even get crazy and install KER. It'd be kinda nice to finally know my  and TWR. 

 

Actually I haven't been paying that much attention to the cost of my vehicles, but having played a lot in Sandbox, I guess I have developed an instinct for what will or won't work for most situations without going over the top.  I still haven't put that many hours in to my career save, but already I have all the facilities fully upgraded and that with contracts all within the Kerbin system.  I think I am going to have to start going further afield for science though, as I still have a fair bit of the tech tree to unlock.

The career mod mentioned by @ble210 sounds interesting though, so I might give that a look.

 

ETA : I've just looked at the career mod, but it needs too many other mods to be installed to work for my taste, as I like to keep my install fairly basic.

 

Edited July 18, 2017 by Scarecrow

[Johnny Wishbone]

I really should do the YouTube series I've been thinking about for a while. Based on this thread and several other similar threads recently posted, I have a very strong suspicion that there are a lot of people out there that would be blown away by what you can do in a stock career without it being grindy, boring, or difficult. 

For what its worth, satellite contracts are the best source of easy funds. You can take several contracts, build one satellite that meets all requirements and do all the contracts in a single launch. 

[Kerbal101]

For the people who have a problem of doing continuous missions in career. There is a solution. Get this mod (DailyFunds only) and apply this change.

What it does, is that it gives you very small funds - daily, based upon your reputation. See this as some government giving your very small donations, based upon how well you progress.

 

Initially, it will be very very small. But as you progress, compete missions etc, your reputation grows too, and funds will start to pour in just about as much, as required to go sufficiently "sandbox" in "career".
Now, it takes a long time to get to this self-sufficiency. Basically you'll have to visit almost all bodies, so it won't impact your career much. But once you are there - you should have enough income to set own goals.

And if, for some reason, you burn through too much funds - or want quicker money, you can ... pick a mission.

[ble210]

10 hours ago, Scarecrow said:

Actually I haven't been paying that much attention to the cost of my vehicles, but having played a lot in Sandbox, I guess I have developed an instinct for what will or won't work for most situations without going over the top.  I still haven't put that many hours in to my career save, but already I have all the facilities fully upgraded and that with contracts all within the Kerbin system.  I think I am going to have to start going further afield for science though, as I still have a fair bit of the tech tree to unlock.

The career mod mentioned by @ble210 sounds interesting though, so I might give that a look.

 

ETA : I've just looked at the career mod, but it needs too many other mods to be installed to work for my taste, as I like to keep my install fairly basic.

 

I should have mentioned that Career Evolution Pack is an unmanned before manned career mission set, so you will need an unmanned before manned mod.  SETI Unmanned Before Manned is excellent, especially combined with Community Tech Tree.  But I really recommend trying it out; I used to be all stock KSP, but mods really, really make the game more varied and fun.  You will be surprised when you start using them

14 hours ago, Cpt Kerbalkrunch said:

@Scarecrow, glad you're takin' a real shot at career mode. Over 1,900 hours now and it's still all I've played. I really like the challenges it presents you with. You get nothing for free. You have to upgrade the KSC, get experience for your Kerbals (plus hire or rescue new ones), and unlock the tech tree; all while trying to make a profit. I think it's a blast.  As you've already seen, it'll teach you new ways to build because you're always watching the bottom line. And sometimes you go too cheap and end up paying the price later. And even when you have enough cash that it's no longer a concern, you'll still find yourself weighing contracts to see if it's worth it or not. But for those who dig sandbox, once your funds are at a comfortable level, you can do whatever you want. I run missions that are going to cost me a fortune just for fun (every mission to Eve is a money pit), while sending out other missions to complete contracts and pay the bills. I love almost everything about it.

I say almost because, like nearly everyone, I wish the contract system was just better overall. I want to give a nod here to @ble210 for digging up the career evolution mod. I read through the thread and it sounds pretty cool. I'm getting closer to finally starting a new career (cuz I can't really remember the early days, so I think it might be fun) and I think I'm actually going to add some mods this time to spice things up (I've been playing pure stock). I've been wanting to add the outer planets anyway (kinda waiting on the expansion at this point, in case it's a serious mod-breaker), and the others mentioned sound pretty good as well. Who knows? I might even get crazy and install KER. It'd be kinda nice to finally know my  and TWR. 

 

I may be double posting here, but as a former pure stock player, I really recommend checking out some mods.  Career Evolution Pack requires an unmanned before manned mod (I recommend SETI Unmanned Before Manned, especially combined with Community Tech Tree).  I must say, I was shocked at how much mods made KSP more enjoyable (and stock is already so enjoyable!).  So many of them are really well balanced and feel like they should naturally be a part of the stock game.  Along with the mods already mentioned, Final Frontier is great, Near Future Technologies adds many good parts, and anything by Roverdude I highly recommend.  (And if you really want to get technical and improve the difficulty a bit, life support mods are really fun as well).

[Kelderek]

If you're not a big fan of contracts like me, then there is a good admin strategy that you can use called "Leadership Initiative" which will reduce the funds, science, and rep from contracts, but give you much higher gains for funds and reputation from milestones as well as a boost to any science data you collect in the field.  I usually upgrade my admin building to level 2 and then save up to buy this strategy at 60% (which is the max for this building level).  Contract gains will be about 45% lower but milestones are 90% better and the science gained in the field is about 30% better.  The setup cost is not cheap (something like 160k funds, 320 science and 64 reputation cost and you need at least 250 reputation to access it), but I can usually grab it after 5 or 6 launches in an early career.

Once you have this enabled, then you can just go anywhere you want and the first time you do anything you get nice milestone bonuses.  The disadvantage is you don't get funds up front like you do with contracts and also you only get the milestone rewards once, so it's not very good if you plan to make repeated trips to the same locations.  You can still do some contracts, they just don't pay out as much, but if you come across ones that align with what you were planning to do anyway then you may as well take them.  But the way I like to play is to explore lots of new places, so the milestone rewards are the easiest way for me to do that and I don't have to rely on finding the right kind of contracts to fund my missions.

[Arsonide]

22 hours ago, Kelderek said:

If you're not a big fan of contracts like me, then there is a good admin strategy that you can use called "Leadership Initiative" which will reduce the funds, science, and rep from contracts, but give you much higher gains for funds and reputation from milestones as well as a boost to any science data you collect in the field.  I usually upgrade my admin building to level 2 and then save up to buy this strategy at 60% (which is the max for this building level).  Contract gains will be about 45% lower but milestones are 90% better and the science gained in the field is about 30% better.  The setup cost is not cheap (something like 160k funds, 320 science and 64 reputation cost and you need at least 250 reputation to access it), but I can usually grab it after 5 or 6 launches in an early career.

Once you have this enabled, then you can just go anywhere you want and the first time you do anything you get nice milestone bonuses.  The disadvantage is you don't get funds up front like you do with contracts and also you only get the milestone rewards once, so it's not very good if you plan to make repeated trips to the same locations.  You can still do some contracts, they just don't pay out as much, but if you come across ones that align with what you were planning to do anyway then you may as well take them.  But the way I like to play is to explore lots of new places, so the milestone rewards are the easiest way for me to do that and I don't have to rely on finding the right kind of contracts to fund my missions.

Leadership Initiative was added when milestones were added because there are indeed players that wish career mode was less guided, and more free-form, like sandbox mode with funds and science. These players wouldn't be satisfied with any changes to contracts, because contracts are not what they want from career mode.

The reason it has such a large activation cost is because of the initial "record" milestones - altitude records, speed records, distance records, and depth records. There are a lot of those early in the game to kickstart your career on a positive note, and give new players some wiggle room. Having Leadership Initiative active as those are earned would be quite unbalanced, however, which is why the activation cost is a bit steeper. This ensures that players get it a little later in the game.

I like that you noticed that it forces you to keep moving forward, instead of doing the same things repeatedly. This was intentional, to emphasize a playstyle that is very different than following contracts. It emphasizes more of a trailblazer or pioneer attitude, which is why it is called "Leadership Initiative". You want to be the first in your field to do these things that have never been done before. You want to keep moving.

Another point I'd like to make is the boosted science gains. This might appear strange to someone initially, but the intent of that was not actually to give you more science. What do you do if you are using this playstyle and you are stuck? You've done everything you can do in the Kerbin system, but you can't make it to Duna yet? What if you've explored everything in the system, and there are no milestones left? The intent of the boosted science was not to give you science, but to give you a source of recurring funds when paired with another strategy. When initially doing science, this still supports the trailblazer attitude, as science comes from finite pools (doing it in the same places lowers and eventually uses up all the science there). However if you've done all the science there is to do, this will boost the amount of science your labs produce, and therefore potentially boost the funds they produce when paired with other strategies.

Anyway, a lot of thought went into that strategy, hopefully I've explained some of it.

Edited July 20, 2017 by Arsonide

[Kelderek]

2 hours ago, Arsonide said:

Leadership Initiative was added when milestones were added because there are indeed players that wish career mode was less guided, and more free-form, like sandbox mode with funds and science. These players wouldn't be satisfied with any changes to contracts, because contracts are not what they want from career mode.

The reason it has such a large activation cost is because of the initial "record" milestones - altitude records, speed records, distance records, and depth records. There are a lot of those early in the game to kickstart your career on a positive note, and give new players some wiggle room. Having Leadership Initiative active as those are earned would be quite unbalanced, however, which is why the activation cost is a bit steeper. This ensures that players get it a little later in the game.

I like that you noticed that it forces you to keep moving forward, instead of doing the same things repeatedly. This was intentional, to emphasize a playstyle that is very different than following contracts. It emphasizes more of a trailblazer or pioneer attitude, which is why it is called "Leadership Initiative". You want to be the first in your field to do these things that have never been done before. You want to keep moving.

Another point I'd like to make is the boosted science gains. This might appear strange to someone initially, but the intent of that was not actually to give you more science. What do you do if you are using this playstyle and you are stuck? You've done everything you can do in the Kerbin system, but you can't make it to Duna yet? What if you've explored everything in the system, and there are no milestones left? The intent of the boosted science was not to give you science, but to give you a source of recurring funds when paired with another strategy. When initially doing science, this still supports the trailblazer attitude, as science comes from finite pools (doing it in the same places lowers and eventually uses up all the science there). However if you've done all the science there is to do, this will boost the amount of science your labs produce, and therefore potentially boost the funds they produce when paired with other strategies.

Anyway, a lot of thought went into that strategy, hopefully I've explained some of it.

I hope I didn't give the impression that I think Leadership Initiative is too expensive to activate, that's certainly not what I think.  I just point it out because if you want to utilize it then it helps to plan ahead so you can save up and enable it at the earliest possibility.  Like I said, I can usually get it enabled at 60% after around 5 or 6 launches (1. first launch, 2. first exit of atmosphere, 3. first orbit, 4. first Mun flyby and return, 5. first Minmus flyby and return, 6. first landing on the Mun or Minmus).  The hardest part is actually the reputation I think - that may force you to do an extra contract or two - in the early career I like the rescue missions to get some "free" kerbalnauts. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the rescue mission can also count as your first orbital rendezvous too.

This strategy is perfect for me so thanks for coming up with it (and milestones in general)!  I can't imagine playing career without it now.  It entirely fits my free-roaming play style, I like to change up my career games and doing things in a different order form game to game.  The beauty is that you can still do some contracts on the side, it's not like they are disabled, they just are not as lucrative as before.  If I am thinking about doing my first mission to Duna for example, I may choose to grab a satellite mission for Duna so that I can drop that off when I get there for a little extra cash and then use it going forward as a relay for my communications network.

I never use labs for science - that is a mechanic I never really liked much.  I love the labs for designing stations, but I don't bother with putting data in them.  I also never transmit science over antennas if I can help it (maybe the occasional crew report).  That sample return container made my life so much easier.  Now all we need is to allow a scientist to reset experiments without doing an EVA, being on board should be sufficient in my mind -- this part sucks in early career before you can do EVAs in space.