Chinese Space Program (CNSA) & Ch. commercial launch and discussion

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

1 hour ago, 050644zf said:

Utopia Planitia, thousand kilometers away from Percy

https://www.usgs.gov/media/images/geologic-map-mars

 

For reference 

@Xd the great

[SunlitZelkova]

On 5/14/2021 at 6:44 PM, Xd the great said:

Aww, I was hoping for a big boom. I'm too kerbal.

Where is the landing site located relative to Perseverance and Ingenuity? Can Zhurong engage in a 2 country car race?

They can. They just need to decide on a set distance and whoever reaches it first wins, even if they aren't actually side by side.

From the Chinese internet. Not yet confirmed by actual official press release or new agency, but it seems China is going straight to sample return.

Quote

As far as we can see now, Tianwen-2 mission will be launched by new CZ-9 ricket during year 2028-2030, by official source.

Tianwen-2 will take a small step forward. It's probe will collect soil sample from Mars. A small ascender module attached to the lander will send the sample up to the orbiter, then the orbiter module will go back to earth, and return a capsule containing the soil sample.

The whole plan is like the Chang'E-5 mission but much challenging for the long distance and the new rocket which the task based on.
-------------
天问二号计划于2028年至2030年左右搭载长征九号运载火箭从海南文昌航天发射场发射，翌年抵达火星。轨道器/返回舱与巡视器/上升器/着陆器分离，巡视器/上升器/着陆器在火星表面进行推动力软着陆。巡视器在火星表面采集岩土样本，上升器再从火星表面发射升空进入火星近轨道，经过变轨后与轨道器/返回舱交会对接，将样本输推进返回舱中。轨道器再次点火，进入火星-地球转移轨道。年后接近地球时，返回舱再入地球大气层，在中国境内内蒙古进行软着陆，带回火星岩土样本。

This is the general plan that is known, it just hadn't been called Tianwen-2 until now.

The timeframe basically aligns with the NASA-ESA MSR mission.

[050644zf]

The Tianzhou-2 Cargo Spacecraft which estimated launch on May 20th will carry 4.69 tons of supplies includes  supplies of 3 astronauts for 3 months, 2 EVA suits,  platform supplies, and 1.95 tons of propellant.

Source: https://weibo.com/5616492130/KfRIspUbw

[YNM]

Considering they only have one relay and it was not in position whatsoever, I guess the wait is understandable. The only thing the lander/rover can transmit to Earth directly w/o relay and amplification is 16 Byte/s (or is it bit/s ?)... in any case waay too slow to transmit images.

[SunlitZelkova]

7 hours ago, YNM said:

Considering they only have one relay and it was not in position whatsoever, I guess the wait is understandable. The only thing the lander/rover can transmit to Earth directly w/o relay and amplification is 16 Byte/s (or is it bit/s ?)... in any case waay too slow to transmit images.

They have two. Mars Express is also available.

There is a rumor going around that images from Zhurong, regardless of the actual time they arrive, will be withheld until the 22nd, when a live stream event will be held to coincide with the rover rolling off the lander. To clarify, I mean live stream on the internet probably with mission control images and live news updates about the rover, not necessarily pictures coming back in as close to real time as possible.

If true, it kind of makes sense. They couldn't do such a thing for the landing- having it smash into the ground while millions watch would be too embarrassing- but the rover rolling off the lander is pretty safe, and makes for good propaganda.

Something similar was done (a big press event with public attendance, hosted by the spacecraft/mission team, with live updates on mission status) with the UAE Hope Mars orbiter except without artificial wait period, and obviously with orbital insertion instead of a rover beginning its mission.

As for the known part of the schedule-

Meanwhile, LM-9 development is moving forward. A LEO capacity of 150 tons has been confirmed. Whether or not it will eventually have some form of reusability in future variants is unknown.

Earth and Moon viewed from Sun-Earth L1 by Chang'e 5 ( https://www.space.com/china-chang-e-5-moon-probe-deep-space-images )

[tater]

I prefer the warts and all approach of letting people participate by watching live, regardless of outcome.

It's why most of us like SpaceX more than Blue Origin. (ignoring the fact BO hasn't done anything interesting yet)

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

I'm still waiting for SX to drop a boatload of Starlinks into Mars orbit for their Boston Robotics Dog Army Invasion.

That will be good TV.

Edited May 18, 2021 by JoeSchmuckatelli

[kerbiloid]

RoboDog + Ingenuity = AMEE

Spoiler

 

 

[YNM]

5 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

Mars Express is also available.

Seems to me that they're not excercising the option even if it's available. (or maybe it's more difficult to excercise than using their own stuff even if it means waiting around.)

The deep-space tracking seems to be completely passive - probably the (semi-)amateurs could achieve similar results (obviously a lot less precise). Data relay is a different story altogether.

5 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

There is a rumor going around that images from Zhurong, regardless of the actual time they arrive, will be withheld until the 22nd, when a live stream event will be held to coincide with the rover rolling off the lander.

Well at least there's something to look for on bilibili. If anyone have the links and schedules it'd be great.

Edited May 18, 2021 by YNM

[050644zf]

And here it is

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2021 by 050644zf

[sevenperforce]

4 hours ago, 050644zf said:

And here it is

Hurrah!!!

All issues with the Chinese government aside (heaven knows ours has issues too), this is awesome and fantastic. The more rovers on Mars, the better.

Do we know if it has any solar panel cleaning provisions?

On a related note, this is just stupidly funny/nonsensical/ridiculous.

 

[050644zf]

13 minutes ago, sevenperforce said:

Do we know if it has any solar panel cleaning provisions? 

two side solar panel can be retracted to vertical position to drop the  dust

 

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

1 hour ago, sevenperforce said:

Hurrah!!!

All issues with the Chinese government aside (heaven knows ours has issues too), this is awesome and fantastic. The more rovers on Mars, the better.

Do we know if it has any solar panel cleaning provisions?

On a related note, this is just stupidly funny/nonsensical/ridiculous.

 

Theirs has blue torus beams being shot from the lander onto Mars - so clearly an advanced and unique design. 

[SOXBLOX]

6 hours ago, sevenperforce said:

On a related note, this is just stupidly funny/nonsensical/ridiculous.

Reduce, reuse, recycle, right? 

[kerbiloid]

Will the Mars be revamped on 1.12?

Edited May 20, 2021 by kerbiloid

[ChrisSpace]

On 5/20/2021 at 1:07 AM, sevenperforce said:

Hurrah!!!

All issues with the Chinese government aside (heaven knows ours has issues too), this is awesome and fantastic. The more rovers on Mars, the better.

Exactly. Kind of a shame Zhurong and Perseverance are 1814 km apart, it'd be cool to see them "meet" each other.

It's also a shame that I haven't heard any news on a future CNSA Mars mission after this.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

1 hour ago, ChrisSpace said:

It's also a shame that I haven't heard any news on a future CNSA Mars mission after this

According to the NASA administrator they apparently are trying to beat the US to the lunar pole landing site. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.space.com/amp/nasa-administrator-bill-nelson-first-congressional-hearing

Edited May 21, 2021 by JoeSchmuckatelli

[YNM]

 

On 5/21/2021 at 6:08 PM, ChrisSpace said:

It's also a shame that I haven't heard any news on a future CNSA Mars mission after this.

Actually, they're planning for sample return at about the same transfer window that NASA is planning their sample return.

Edited May 24, 2021 by YNM

[kerbiloid]

Spoiler

Gobi is so nice in spring.

 

[SunlitZelkova]

 

On 5/21/2021 at 5:13 AM, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

According to the NASA administrator they apparently are trying to beat the US to the lunar pole landing site. 

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.space.com/amp/nasa-administrator-bill-nelson-first-congressional-hearing

I don't think this is based off of actual intelligence, but is rather using the vagueness of China's space program to create an excuse for lunar lander funding. The information that there is from various Chinese semi-public (that is, civilian, and thus lots of information is available) institutes involved in the vehicles with the crewed lunar landing indicate 2030 at the earliest.

[kerbiloid]

The geological survey plan.
 

Spoiler

 

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

3 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

The geological survey plan

Problem is, all they will find is cheese. 

 

6 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

don't think this is based off of actual intelligence, but is rather using the vagueness of China's space program to create an excuse for lunar lander funding

China's odd secretiveness can be used against them as well - for purely selfish reasons.  Their choices are resulting in becoming a bogeyman of their own creation that Americans can use to scare themselves into action.  (Remember - Congress does not get the best and brightest, just the popular) 

A dumb guy with a knee jerk reaction is at least predictable. We got to the moon as much because we wanted to beat the Rooskies as for any scientific purpose. 

[DDE]

17 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

China's odd secretiveness can be used against them as well - for purely selfish reasons.  Their choices are resulting in becoming a bogeyman of their own creation that Americans can use to scare themselves into action.  (Remember - Congress does not get the best and brightest, just the popular) 

This raises the question of what comes first: the boogieman or the scaremonger? Certainly there's not much need for true spaceflight successes to drum up a threat.

 

[YNM]

34 minutes ago, DDE said:

Certainly there's not much need for true spaceflight successes to drum up a threat.

Well they're the only one 'outside the circle' and have the largest (apparent) probability to succeed.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

Heh ~ tic tac

29 minutes ago, DDE said:

This raises the question of what comes first: the boogieman or the scaremonger

This frustrates the 'water' out of me.  I welcome competition - nothing else quite spurs inventiveness... But I hate this idea that competitors are enemies.  Totally unnecessary. 

 

Of course, I live in the place where UK fans will turn on anyone who likes the Cards (until someone shows up in the wrong blue with the hint 'Duke' written anywhere). .