Chinese Space Program (CNSA) & Ch. commercial launch and discussion

[steve9728]

8 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

steal tech from everyone

well speaking of which, I strongly recommend that you take a look at Z-20 helicopter I think it defintely will make those people really mad

8 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Western published science articles

I never think the acdemic level, scientists have such a suffocationg problem with racism or sense of superiority that comes out of nowhere: many folks at NASA always want to co-operate with CNSA don't they? But politician is politician. Hold our nose and keep going

 

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

5 minutes ago, steve9728 said:

Z-20 helicopter

Nothing succeeds like success.

[steve9728]

News:  Gaofen-3 02 satellite successfully entered the intended orbit by CZ-4C rocket at 7:45 (UTC/GMT+8:00) today. The Global Times reported that it "operates in a sun-synchronous return orbit at an altitude of 755 km, with a C-band synthetic aperture radar as its main payload. After launch into orbit, it will be networked with the Gaofen-3 satellite in orbit to form a constellation of maritime and land radar satellites with 1m resolution and 1-day revisit capability, in addition to adding an automatic ship identification signal receiving system and onboard real-time processing functions to improve the observation of maritime vessels and the monitoring capability of maritime emergencies and the natural environment on land and sea, which can meet the needs of marine rights and interests maintenance, marine disaster prevention and mitigation, marine power environmental monitoring, as well as disaster mitigation, land, environmental protection, water conservancy, agriculture and meteorology applications"

Hey ships, big satellite is watching you

Edited November 23, 2021 by steve9728

[kerbiloid]

6 hours ago, DDE said:

The Soviets were actually honest by comparison, paying both Vickers (T-26) and Christie (BT)

Not only.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Klimov_VK-1

6 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

Back to Christie and his suspension: that was the old US arrogance.  He did not have 'the right connections' and so no one took him seriously.

And in the mid-WWII the Christie's suspension appeared to be critically bad in sense of T-34 upgrade to the then-modern capabilities, because was occupying too much horizontal space, making the hull itself too narrow to place the diesel across instead of along and placing a bigger turret. so the T-34 descendamt "T-43" was failed, and its further replacementT-44 with replaced suspension and a proper engine orientation didn't take part in WWII.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

1 minute ago, kerbiloid said:

And in the mid-WWII the Christie's suspension appeared to be critically bad in sense of T-34 upgrade to the then-modern capabilities, because was occupying too much horizontal space, making the hull itself too narrow to place the diesel across instead of along and placing a bigger turret. so the T-34 descendamt "T-43" was failed, and its further replacementT-44 with replaced suspension and a proper engine orientation didn't take part in WWII.

I always presumed the Soviets used wide tracks because of ground pressure.  How was Christie, then 'critically bad'?

[kerbiloid]

9 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

How was Christie, then 'critically bad'?

Not its tracks, but its joint/suspension part. It was too wide, while the total width of a tank is limited by the two Ancient Roman horse donkeys railroad width, which btw hasn't changed since then.

So, by taking too much external width, it was leaving too few internal width, and they weren't able to rotate the engine across to put the bigger turret in center.
Without that the new (rounder) turret with 85mm was moving CoM to the nose too much, making the tank dive, and thus also stopped from moving the driver's door from front to top.
So, the upgrade was cancelled, and the turret was partially adapted for old T-34 chassis, giving the temporary design known as T-34-85.

Edited November 23, 2021 by kerbiloid

[DDE]

31 minutes ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

I always presumed the Soviets used wide tracks because of ground pressure.  How was Christie, then 'critically bad'?

These are a bit of a problem, whereas one could just get away with torsion bars along the floor like the Landsverk everyone worldwide was copying.

[DDE]

 

7 hours ago, steve9728 said:

I never think the acdemic level, scientists have such a suffocationg problem with racism or sense of superiority that comes out of nowhere: many folks at NASA always want to co-operate with CNSA don't they? But politician is politician

It's not politicians, it's Acute Cerebral Politization, a disorder known to rend personal relationships and even familial ties. Politicians more or less cultivate this state, whereas scientists are rarely afflicted - but can be susceptible, usually to the detriment of their primary occupation.

And I do concur that most of the cliches about "collectivism" have persisted back from the era when tying political organization to race was in the vogue.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

7 hours ago, DDE said:

These are a bit of a problem, whereas one could just get away with torsion bars along the floor like the Landsverk everyone worldwide was copying.

Never seen a cutaway like that - thanks!  Also illustrated the problem I had understanding Kerbiloid's grouse about Christie.  Makes sense, now. 

 

[kerbiloid]

Christie's was good for tractors and tankettes like BT.
For bigger things it started sucking.

Edited November 23, 2021 by kerbiloid

[steve9728]

Well I find a paper that I think you guys would be interest: 

Conceptual design of TBCC based TSTO configurations for stage seperation investigation

http://html.rhhz.net/KQDLXXB/2019-05-698.htm

You can let Chrome translate it. “I know all the words, but I just don't know what they mean when put together“

Edited November 23, 2021 by steve9728

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

37 minutes ago, steve9728 said:

let Chrome translate it. “

"TSTO is still in the exploratory stage, and there is no clear aerodynamic layout plan that can achieve a recognized consensus"

 

Yep

[steve9728]

2 hours ago, JoeSchmuckatelli said:

"TSTO is still in the exploratory stage, and there is no clear aerodynamic layout plan that can achieve a recognized consensus"

 

Yep

What is the most important part of an academic research paper? Peer review and experimental replication. But you know, those "peers" can't even make experimental equipment

[SOXBLOX]

I still don't know why anyone would ever listen to tabloids. (Especially for anything factual. ) It's a great mystery of our time.

[steve9728]

News: KZ-1A rocket successfully carried the Experiment-11 Satellite into orbit from Jiuquan Satellite Launch Centre site at 7:41(UTC/GMT+08:00) today. This mission was the 13th launched of the KZ-1A launch vehicle.

https://zhuanlan.zhihu.com/p/437446455

Can’t paste the link of the photo. We got three new photos about KZ-1A rocket with a missile transporter launched at dawn 

Edited November 25, 2021 by steve9728

[steve9728]

2 hours ago, SOXBLOX said:

I still don't know why anyone would ever listen to tabloids. (Especially for anything factual. ) It's a great mystery of our time.

Cockroaches won't kill you, but they're annoying and disgusting enough

[DDE]

7 hours ago, steve9728 said:

Cockroaches won't kill you, but they're annoying and disgusting enough

@steve9728

Cockroaches are also your cue to look for the source of the cockroaches. The gotta be feeding on something.

But then I have a long-time fascination with trying to reconstruct the original source of mangled information. It's like the plot of Armageddon: at some point, someone actually scientifically literate was clearly involved before the moviemakers went their own way.

[Beccab]

29 minutes ago, DDE said:

But then I have a long-time fascination with trying to reconstruct the original source of mangled information. It's like the plot of Armageddon: at some point, someone actually scientifically literate was clearly involved before the moviemakers went their own way.

I still can't wrap my had around that, they slingshot around the moon so someone just *has* to have told them that it existed. What happened to that person after that is not clear, perhaps he was stuck in Mir's gravitational field

Edited November 25, 2021 by Beccab

[steve9728]

I look back to the FT’s hypes and I pretty much sure that they put at least 5 Chinese related experiments into one.

Basically what they try to sell is “Chinese launch something into the orbit, re-enter the atmosphere, glide with speed on Mach 5 or maybe more, throw something waverider-like object at midway and back to the base.” And the latest they try to hype is the object we throw at midway was a ‘aa missile’ — is it really necessary? Kind like I’m going to grab a coke from the store downstairs, and I take a plane from China to US and back to China from US and go to this store and grab it.

As I know so far, hypersonic experiment firstly start to appeared on Chinese online social media platforms around 2017. There has been more than one sighting of a strange celestial phenomenon formed by a warhead gliding through the atmosphere alone, and in more than one place. 

Fact: I was back to hometown to married a cute and sexy girl. When I arrived, I find the chief is short-staffed. So I decided to make a couple of dishes to show off my cooking skills. My wife was very happy at the wedding because of those dishes: is the best day of me and my wife’s whole life.

What they hype: A strange man back to home. He stuck at midway. He cooked several dishes on his little car at highway. And a cute and sexy girl married him with great pleasure because those dishes: This weirdo defies psychology and he probably have ability to steal your wife or daughter by the nobody knows way.

Edited November 25, 2021 by steve9728

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

4 hours ago, steve9728 said:

What they hype: A strange man back to home. He stuck at midway. He cooked several dishes on his little car at highway. And a cute and sexy girl married him with great pleasure because those dishes: This weirdo defies psychology and he probably have ability to steal your wife or daughter by the nobody knows way

Grin! 

[SunlitZelkova]

https://spacenews.com/chinese-crewed-moon-landing-possible-by-2030-says-senior-space-figure/

This doesn't qualify as true development news, but it is interesting nonetheless.

Some of the presentations given in the past year have also proposed a crewed lunar flyby (Artemis II equivalent) with the Next-Generation Crewed Spacecraft in 2025.

However, it is not known how much development work has been done on the Long March 5DY rocket to launch it. It is known that work is progressing at a decent rate on the engines for the Long March 9, but that is unlikely to launch crew.

--------

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/china-hypersonic-weapons-test-details-united-states-military/

I did not see this before. So we have confirmation from the US military that there was indeed some sort of hypersonic test at some point in the summer.

Important news appeared however on Wednesday from the 7th China (International) Commercial Aerospace Forum. The ramjet engine of the first stage of the Tengyun spaceplane-

has made its first flight. It is possible that the "HGV" was actually a sub-scale demonstrator for the Tengyun, akin in purpose to the BOR-4 prototype for the Soviet Spiral spaceplane (but powered), and that the "projectile released" was the first stage/carrier aircraft completing its mission while the "HGV" was a sub-scale, presumably non-powered (and thus just intended to impact) model of the Tengyun upper stage/main spacecraft (the X-37B looking thing). This would also explain why it was launched on a Long March rocket, and not a DF series missile.

I think we have our culprit . Apologies for no links on the news from convention, it was just yesterday and the link to the image of the slide/presentation from my source is broken. It will hopefully appear soon.

@steve9728, have you heard anything about the Tengyun test?

[steve9728]

6 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

Tengyun test?

Yep. But sadly I still not back home and don’t have opportunity to visit the Juhai Airshow. Frankly speaking we don’t know more than the other people outside of China but in Chinese, Tengyun means tumbling cloud. And the “cloud” more than one: five of them. It called ‘five cloud and one train’. And I pretty much sure that the paper I shared about "TBCC based TSTO" is related on it

They are Hongyun (虹云，rainbow clouds); Xingyun(行云，flowing clouds); Feiyun(飞云，flying clouds); Kuaiyun(快云，fast clouds) and the Tengyun. The “one train” stand for “the flying train project” for the creation of a high-speed maglev transport system.

The Hongyun you can think it as Musk’s Star Link, but it is for the “low orbit satellite internet+5G+smart ship internet of Internet of Things. And it was completed its first full-system, full flow, multi-user broadband satellite Internet communications experiment. It has been broken down into three steps:"1+4+156”: the first step is to launch the first technical verification satellite by 2018, second step is to launch four service test satellites by the end of the 13th Five-Year Plan (sounds Soviet) to form a small constellation for users to have preliminary service experiences; the third step is to launch 156 satellites by the end of 14th Five-Year Plan (2021 is the first year of it). Those 156 satellites will be in operation and the business constellation will be built.

The Xingyun project is a low-orbit satellite-satellite laser communication, the so-called “Space-based Internet of Things. The α-phase twin satellites was launched in May 2020 and successful completion of all in-orbit tests. They said they would completed the β-phase of it and achieving small-scale business operations and initial realization of space-based IoT services. (I found the record at Wiki, launched at 12th May 2020 by KZ-1A rocket)

The Feiyun project is for building an airborne local area network. It has achieved a demonstration flight test of a local area network communication system based on a solar-powered UAV platform at an altitude of 8,000 meters.

The Kuaiyun project is stratospherically accessible floating mobile platform.It has successfully completed the stratospheric ultra-long stay floatation vehicle validation flight test.

Tengyun, ask FT The official statement is “The first combined power modal transformation flight test in China has been completed. Achieving a major breakthrough in air and space flight power technology.”

And the Flying Train is jointly promoting core technology research and industrialization synergy with advantageous units.

I don’t know about you guys, but I think is sci-if movies are still a bit conservative in comparison?

Optimistically, the fact that so little information is available about them at least suggests that CNSA is not wasting research funds on publicity

the official introduction about the “five cloud and one train”:http://www.xinhuanet.com/2020-10/19/c_1126631246.htm And it was published at 19th Oct. 2020

 

Edited November 26, 2021 by steve9728

[steve9728]

The “Chinese can go to moon at 2030” that things I have reservation. China's space research process is relatively conservative and not so radical. None of the new manned spacecraft have been finalised either, and the new rocket to accompany them has not made its maiden flight. The second stage engine of the CZ-9, “YF-90 220-tonne Hydrogen-oxygen engine completes first engineering prototype”, said by official statement. And the new rocket CZ-9 also needs a new launch station and new assembly plant: she is much taller than the CZ-5. Although there also have voice said that we got another plan:'921 rocket', using two CZ-5 core first stage as boosters and tied it up to the rocket. But it still needs the tests.

And the another good news is the Wenchang Satellite Launch Centre Phase II Expansion Project was started at August this year. Based on the first phase of the project, which started in September 2009 and was completed in October 2014, and the first mission was carried out in 2016, I think it will be at least five to seven years before the new rocket launch site is operational if all goes well. Which will be 2026 to 2028. “Go to moon at 2030” a bit too much of a rush, and I don’t think we’re in a space race either.

We might be have ability to do so at 2030, but sending a crew on it, I’m not so sure. And within China, the Chinese media when they report the “2030 go to moon” that things, they always add up a ‘?’ at end of title and nearly always use “we probably can do that but don’t expect too much” as conclusion.

Edited November 26, 2021 by steve9728

[Codraroll]

7 hours ago, steve9728 said:

Optimistically, the fact that so little information is available about them at least suggests that CNSA is not wasting research funds on publicity

I guess they don't need to. The right people can just send a press release that says "the people loves CNSA now", and suddenly its official approval rating is one hundred percent.  No need to buy as much as a poster. It must be very economical.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

1 hour ago, Codraroll said:

must be very economical.

I think he 'gets it'.  Notice the smiley.

 

Edited November 27, 2021 by JoeSchmuckatelli