Chinese Space Program (CNSA) & Ch. commercial launch and discussion

[050644zf]

Seems the engine lit the forest nearby

[Scotius]

That was interesting launch. For the first couple of seconds rocket climbed painfully slowly. Is TWR of LM5 really that low after lift-off?

[050644zf]

https://b23.tv/7GYa2B

Tianwen-1 Mission simulation in KSP by Reach with Tianwen-1 and LM-5 mod (will release soon) made by Kerwis Team. 

5 minutes ago, Scotius said:

That was interesting launch. For the first couple of seconds rocket climbed painfully slowly. Is TWR of LM5 really that low after lift-off?

LM5 launch pad has no clamp-like equipment like Soyuz to release the rocket once it reach target thrust. Instead the rocket will naturally lift off once its TWR greater than 1, so it looks slower after lift-off

[magnemoe]

54 minutes ago, 050644zf said:

LM5 launch pad has no clamp-like equipment like Soyuz to release the rocket once it reach target thrust. Instead the rocket will naturally lift off once its TWR greater than 1, so it looks slower after lift-off

Think most rockets uses launch clamps. main use tend to be to hold the rocket down until all engines are running. This way you can abort if one has issues. Without it you could get the rocket lift off a meter and then its too late. 
Soyuz is a bit special here in that it looks like the long arms hold it at the mounting point at the top of the boosters, this might save some weight as this would be the place there the boosters lift the core with anyway, downside is an more complex launch structure. 
 

[DDE]

5 hours ago, magnemoe said:

Soyuz is a bit special here in that it looks like the long arms hold it at the mounting point at the top of the boosters, this might save some weight as this would be the place there the boosters lift the core with anyway, downside is an more complex launch structure. 

Barmin's guys were apparently worried about gale-force winds affecting what was hitherto a gargantuan rocket design, so their proposals were (a) five erectors, five separate launch tables, (b) build a wall around the rocket and (c) grab the rocket by its center of gravity, already reinforced to handle thrust.

Not a lot of force involved, AFAIK the counterweights are carefully calibrated:

 

Fun bit of trivia: the plain vanilla 8U215 Tyulpan launch tables at Baikonur and Plesetck have 360⁰ rotation for azimuth targeting instead of roll maneuvers.

[050644zf]

 

[050644zf]

Location of Science Instruments on Tianwen-1 Orbiter and Rover 

 

[DDE]

21 minutes ago, 050644zf said:

Location of Science Instruments on Tianwen-1 Orbiter and Rover 

 

Proborodobodyne will sure be sanctioned for that HECS core.

[tater]

 

[CFYL]

As far as I know, The Tianwen-1 mission is expected to act like this, after reaching Mars intercept:

Spoiler

 

1. Engines push the WHOLE probe into a low Mars orbit

2. Final selection of landing spot, decelerate to sub-orbital.

3. Release lander and rover, and orbiter accelerate back to stable orbit

4. Lander and rover land(with challenges of course) on Mars, and do some checking before performing scientific tasks

5. Orbiter completes its relay mission during the landing, and raise its orbit to the optimal height

 

 

 

 

So, I was thinking in a way (which, I deem not so Kerbal) that:

Spoiler

 

1. Separate the lander and rover after being near Mars intercept, when no extra correction is needed for aerobraking(s) to Mars surface. Or just use RCS for small corrections.

2. Orbiter make corrections to raise pe above atmosphere

3. Lander and rover land, orbiter push itself into stable orbit

 

Personally, I believe the extra ablative substance is not as massive as the cut in fuel needed for circularization, and the extra heating is not such a big deal. Anyways, New-Gen Manned Spacecraft has performed a successful re-entry at 8000km ap above sea level, which may show that CNSA has got some decent techs. I understand that, Mars atmosphere is thick enough to burn the ship up, but still too thin to slow it down significantly, contrary to Duna where heating is piece of cake yet chutes can slow the craft down.

So, what exactly is the difficulty of just smashing into Mars atmosphere (I mean, horizontally and gently, but from an escaping orbit), like Curiosity and Perseverance(or other missions without separate orbiters)?

Spoiler

Well, I’m asking here, instead of other Chinese websites, for I assume you know far more about Mars missions than we do. Perseverance storing Mars soil samples for later return missions is like, well, something way more significant than Tianwen-1 landing, but a start of CNSA going interplanetary is also like, well, something huge. Wish all three Mars missions success!

 

[DDE]

15 hours ago, AllenLi said:

As far as I know, The Tianwen-1 mission is expected to act like this, after reaching Mars intercept:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

1. Engines push the WHOLE probe into a low Mars orbit

2. Final selection of landing spot, decelerate to sub-orbital.

3. Release lander and rover, and orbiter accelerate back to stable orbit

4. Lander and rover land(with challenges of course) on Mars, and do some checking before performing scientific tasks

5. Orbiter completes its relay mission during the landing, and raise its orbit to the optimal height

 

 

 

 

So, I was thinking in a way (which, I deem not so Kerbal) that:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

1. Separate the lander and rover after being near Mars intercept, when no extra correction is needed for aerobraking(s) to Mars surface. Or just use RCS for small corrections.

2. Orbiter make corrections to raise pe above atmosphere

3. Lander and rover land, orbiter push itself into stable orbit

 

Personally, I believe the extra ablative substance is not as massive as the cut in fuel needed for circularization, and the extra heating is not such a big deal. Anyways, New-Gen Manned Spacecraft has performed a successful re-entry at 8000km ap above sea level, which may show that CNSA has got some decent techs. I understand that, Mars atmosphere is thick enough to burn the ship up, but still too thin to slow it down significantly, contrary to Duna where heating is piece of cake yet chutes can slow the craft down.

So, what exactly is the difficulty of just smashing into Mars atmosphere (I mean, horizontally and gently, but from an escaping orbit), like Curiosity and Perseverance(or other missions without separate orbiters)?

  Reveal hidden contents

Well, I’m asking here, instead of other Chinese websites, for I assume you know far more about Mars missions than we do. Perseverance storing Mars soil samples for later return missions is like, well, something way more significant than Tianwen-1 landing, but a start of CNSA going interplanetary is also like, well, something huge. Wish all three Mars missions success!

 

The 'reconnoitering from orbit' stage is unusual. Usually you know the landing site in advance and so you don't benefit from settling into orbit first...

[CFYL]

4 hours ago, DDE said:

The 'reconnoitering from orbit' stage is unusual. Usually you know the landing site in advance and so you don't benefit from settling into orbit first...

Emm... You can say, Tianwen-1 acts a bit like Viking, but added a rover. I was thinking if the lander and rover could do an Insight or Curiosity kind of landing. And for the selection... There are is one sector as the intended landing spot, while another as an alternative. 

In fact, the whole probe will stay in Mars orbit for 2-3 months, until it lands. While in orbit, it will also make inspections to the intended landing spot, as I said” the final selection”.

(Image link)

This is an illustration of Tianwen-1 landing, but in Chinese. The figures should be more or less precise though. 

Spoiler

(Image link)

Aerobraking, 4.8km/s to 460m/s

Chutes deployed, 460m/s to 95m/s

Rocket-powered landing, 95m/s to 3m/s

And finally come to a stoppage at 100m, like CE-3  and 4 did, to avoid hitting those rocks on the surface by translating via, sort of, RCS.

Also, the two landing areas are now being shown, Although the west is listed as 1, and the east one as sector 2, it is said that the landing spot will be somewhere in sector 2 on the east of the map.

(Map image link)

Well, it seems that Perseverance is also going to land near the edge of sector 2 in the map.

There is also a link for you to see further details. The article is in Chinese, and use a lot of words to explain what is a transfer orbit, but there are some details as well. 

Edited August 11, 2020 by AllenLi

[050644zf]

Officially confirmed that China has successfully launched "Reusable Experimental Spacecraft" with LM-2F rocket from Jiuquan.

Quote

 The "Experimental Spacecraft" will return and land at expected landing site. It will perform reusable technologies tests on the orbit to provide technical support of peaceful utilization of space.

Source: Xinhua News

 

[DDE]

3 hours ago, 050644zf said:

Officially confirmed that China has successfully launched "Reusable Experimental Spacecraft" with LM-2F rocket from Jiuquan.

Inb4 the usual cries of "The Chinese have ripped off X-37B, down to the glue in the elevons!"

[tater]

2 hours ago, DDE said:

Inb4 the usual cries of "The Chinese have ripped off X-37B, down to the glue in the elevons!"

Yeah, it's not even close (LOL):

 

 

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2020/09/china-launches-experimental-spaceplane/

[kerbiloid]

Live.

Spoiler

 

 

[DDE]

4 hours ago, tater said:

Yeah, it's not even close (LOL)

Didn't stop dozens of people waving the same old NBC article about Buran - which just retold the claims of an ex-CIA guy who thought Spiral was made up by the DIA and that Energia's core had one engine - in my face back on r/space.

Edited September 4, 2020 by DDE

[050644zf]

On 9/4/2020 at 4:51 PM, MedinC said:

“山知道我，江河知道我”

[Added Translation]

"The mountain knows me, the river knows me"

尊敬的管理员：

这是一句歌词，您的翻译不能准确表达歌词中的情感。

我拥有在任何地方使用我自己的语言并且不提供任何翻译的权利。

《坎巴拉太空计划》有中文版本，使用游戏支持的语言在游戏论坛上讨论不应受到任何限制，包括管理员对内容进行作者不希望的修改。

计算机不能显示不应成为压迫英语以外语言使用的理由，因为绝大部分现代计算机不存在这种问题。

这是一种种族歧视，并且我拒绝为这段话提供翻译，我只会在我想说英语时才说英语。

望知悉。

 

Quote

https://forum.kerbalspaceprogram.com/index.php?/guidelines/

2.3 Language, placement spelling and grammar

1. Users must make an effort to place a new thread in the right forum section. Posts deemed to be in an incorrect section will be moved to a proper one;
2. Users are encouraged to use proper grammar and spelling in all messages. Messages containing txt-speak, 1337-speak and other exclusionary forms of speech may be removed;
3. All messages outside of the international sections should be in English or include an English translation.

 

 

 

[Acea]

On 9/4/2020 at 4:51 PM, MedinC said:

尊敬的管理员：

这是一句歌词，您的翻译不能准确表达歌词中的情感。

我拥有在任何地方使用我自己的语言并且不提供任何翻译的权利。

《坎巴拉太空计划》有中文版本，使用游戏支持的语言在游戏论坛上讨论不应受到任何限制，包括管理员对内容进行作者不希望的修改。

计算机不能显示不应成为压迫英语以外语言使用的理由，因为绝大部分现代计算机不存在这种问题。

这是一种种族歧视，并且我拒绝为这段话提供翻译，我只会在我想说英语时才说英语。

望知悉。

Discrimination cannot be applied to such situation, in which one doesn't seem to show any respect to the rules or commonly followed principles.

You can choose not to use the forum or any community service if you do not like the rules, being rude and disrespectful would never make oneself look even a bit wiser.

Best regards.

[JoeSchmuckatelli]

Surprisingly, Google translate did a fair job of translation. 

[mikegarrison]

On 9/4/2020 at 7:35 AM, tater said:

Yeah, it's not even close (LOL):

 

 

https://www.nasaspaceflight.com/2020/09/china-launches-experimental-spaceplane/

Well, it is said that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

[tater]

 

[DDE]

 

[RCgothic]

 

[kerbiloid]

Quote

Hydrazine, son. Nothing else in the world smells like that. I love the smell of hydrazine in the morning.