Chinese Space Program (CNSA) & Ch. commercial launch and discussion

[Codraroll]

12 hours ago, SunlitZelkova said:

I was thinking about this and realized they are probably influenced by the launch of Skylab. The S-II put it into orbit and stayed there for two years.

https://www.drewexmachina.com/2022/07/31/rockets-falling-from-orbit-the-saturn-v-that-launched-nasas-skylab/
 

It wasn’t responsible then but… the Skylab decision certainly makes it look ok to be irresponsible.

Skylab was fifty years ago, and measures have since been taken to prevent anything like it from happening again. "We should be allowed to repeat the mistakes others learned to fix decades ago" doesn't strike me as a very good argument. 

If a rocket's lift capacity is 24.5 tons with a proper deorbiting system and 25 tons without it, its design lift capacity should be 24.5 tons, no excuses. Disposing the empty stage by letting it fall wherever is like saving money on garbage disposal by not paying the garbage collection fee, but just dumping it in the river behind the house instead.

[steve9728]

14 minutes ago, Codraroll said:

Skylab was fifty years ago, and measures have since been taken to prevent anything like it from happening again. "We should be allowed to repeat the mistakes others learned to fix decades ago" doesn't strike me as a very good argument. 

If a rocket's lift capacity is 24.5 tons with a proper deorbiting system and 25 tons without it, its design lift capacity should be 24.5 tons, no excuses. Disposing the empty stage by letting it fall wherever is like saving money on garbage disposal by not paying the garbage collection fee, but just dumping it in the river behind the house instead.

I'm curious to see if in a future documentary there a sit-down interview with the people will be responsible for this, explaining why it was thought of in the first place. After all, the first satellite launch with the US and Australia 20 or 30 years ago was a live broadcast of the "huge firework". Later on in the documentary, we did get some of the people in charge at the time to sit down and sob "there was a fatal error in the design of the xx system at xx position, which led to this" "I was driving down a mountain road in a car, and to be a bit selfish, when I heard the news of the failure I...I just want the car to go over the hill. "

[Beccab]

 

[tater]

2 of those passes are over northern NM, maybe there's a chance I can see it.

 

[SunlitZelkova]

6 hours ago, Codraroll said:

Skylab was fifty years ago, and measures have since been taken to prevent anything like it from happening again. "We should be allowed to repeat the mistakes others learned to fix decades ago" doesn't strike me as a very good argument.

The thing is though is that it doesn’t really seem to have been a mistake. There is little to no mention of it having been a threat whatsoever in histories of Skylab, prior to that article there was a random forum post from somewhere mentioning it and that was it, at least as far as the internet goes.

If no one is going to remember or reflect on Skylab’s S-II, all that tells China is that in 50 years no one is going to care about the LM-5B’s core stage either, if something isn’t going to matter in the future, it might as well not matter now. Heck, Skylab’s reentry itself is more of a fun space anecdote nowadays rather than a serious lesson in debris management (for the general public, that is).

If we continue to see Skylab this great American achievement (with the S-II being brushed aside to paint a pleasing image), it’s not going to encourage better behavior elsewhere.

My post was not to say that LM-5B core stages are acceptable because of the S-II, but that so long as we don’t really reflect on the S-II as a mistake in the Skylab program to the same level we show concern over the launch portion of the Tiangong program, China won’t really be persuaded to do better themselves.

That’s not ok either on their part- even if someone else doesn’t reflect on their bad behavior, that doesn’t make it ok for you to have bad behavior- but realistically solving a problem takes “two to tango”, rather than simplistic condemnations and a copy paste “we urge *insert nation* to take *insert action*”.

[steve9728]

To summarise my views on the wreckage of the CZ-5B: it would be best if in the future this annoying hype from our western friends could be ended by adding an upper stage. And that's also the plan in the future. But I can understand if future missions to Xuntian telescopes continue to follow the rule that "changes to the original design must be made with extra care, preferably unchanged". This result today is inevitably the result of a trade-off between the various needs considered in the design. What I'm curious about is what the experts and designers considered and what they weighed. Generally speaking, Chinese public opinion is in a "let's all see what the West has to offer to make my day" state of mind.

Spoiler

And if it really has a YZ-2 upper stage in the future. The next title on the Western media is "But with what cost?". Quote a meme in Chinese internet: if you can't make a scene, show us how to bite the lighter.

Near the Mengtian's hatch, there is a porthole at the point of access to the node towards the radial docking port. Technically the Shenzhou-14 crew can see the Shenzhou-15 docking with CSS. Hope the crew can take some pictures during the docking!

Via.https://weibo.com/2645044133/MdjO2dZlP

[steve9728]

Pretty fast, some Chinese space enthusiasts have already photographed the CSS overcast sun after the Mengtian Module's transposition manoeuvre was just finished

Via.https://weibo.com/2372912404/MdsJGipDt

[DDE]

On 11/2/2022 at 9:16 PM, Beccab said:

That's a solid motor meant to deorbit the stage after orbital insertion

Reminds me of the backup retromotor on the Voskhod.

[steve9728]

oops, 5 Nov today. The little space shuttle is in the orbit 3 months

[steve9728]

The first full-system test-run of the 500t dual-thrust chamber high pressure supplementary-combustion cycle LOX/Kerosene engine, the YF-130 for the CZ-9, has been successful finished!

Meanwhile, another engine with a ground thrust of 80t and vacuum thrust 90t, the reusable, open-cycle LOX/Methane engine YF-209, which will be the main power of China's commercial rockets in the future has also completed its first full system test-run.

And, the ChinaSat-19 has successfully launched by CZ-3B/G2 Y91 rocket from XSLC (Xichang Satellite Launch Center)

Via. https://weibo.com/2645044133/MdEz1oA59

Edited November 5, 2022 by steve9728

[steve9728]

I have a friend in one of the media who has already gone in with his colleagues to see the full-size CSS because the media reporters were able to get in early these days to familiarise themselves with the live interviews and camera spots. His exact words were: I was so shocked the moment I saw it that I didn't know what to say.

[Vanamonde]

Looks like one of the sets from 2001.  

[steve9728]

Zhuhai airshow was started yesterday. Its full title is China International Aviation & Aerospace Exhibition, so is reasonable to call the people in CSS to say something for the opening ceremony in live stream

https://mil.huanqiu.com/article/4ANt2OaJA48

Chen Dong: 大家好，我是航天员陈东。得知第十四届中国国际航空航天博览会开幕，我们在中国空间站表达来自太空的祝福！祝第十四届中国航展取得圆满成功！(Hello everyone, I'm taikonaut Chen Dong. Having heared of the opening of the 14th China International Aviation & Aerospace Exhibition we here at the CSS offer our best wishes from space! May the 14th China Airshow can make a great success!)

Liu Yang: 大家好，我是航天员刘洋。我们为祖国在空天领域取得的成就倍感自豪。像为我国空天领域发展付出艰辛努力，作出重大贡献的全体航天航空工作者致以最崇高的敬意！我们为你们加油，点赞！(Hello everyone, I'm taikonaut Liu Yang. We are proud of our country's achievements in the field of air and space. We pay the highest tribute to all the aerospace workers who have worked so hard and made such a significant contribution to the development of our country's air and space sector! We are cheering for you, cheers!)

Cai Xuzhe: 大家好，我是航天员蔡旭哲。中国航展举办已十三届。成为展现大国形象、深化开放合作、携手捍卫和平的重要载体。祝愿所有参加航展的朋友们有所得、有所获！(Hello everyone, I'm taikonaut Cai Xuzhe. The China Airshow has been held for thirteen times. It has become an important platform to presenting the image of a great nation, deepen open cooperation and join hands to defend peace. We wish all our friends attending the airshow something and something to gain!)

 

Ye Guangfu: As a taikonaut from the air force, it makes sense for me to come and see you guys' new toys, am I?

"Ok I got it. How to close it?"

Jealous between pilots hahaha

Via. https://weibo.com/7608091378/MedEg0XdZ?refer_flag=1001030103_

 

Tianzhou-5 cargo ship with CZ-7 Y6 rocket was transfer from VAB to the launch tower

"In addition to the astronauts' personal belongings and the experimental instruments needed for their work, there also have special Chinese New Year gift packs for them, as well as gifts for the two crews to hand over on the space station."

Via. https://weibo.com/2196038737/Megbz4Tg8

And meanwhile, Tianzhou-4 was left CSS. In the following days, it will carry out an independent flight phase, performing several experiments such as the release of the cube sat in orbit and some communication experiments. Then it will re-enter the atmosphere.

CSS in Tianzhou-4's view, 19m away:

Via. https://weibo.com/1971177973/Mee8AeV6b?refer_flag=1001030103_

Edited November 9, 2022 by steve9728

[SunlitZelkova]

This means the projected (theorized?) cargo version of the Next Generation Crewed Spacecraft may have been cancelled or put on hold.

This makes me wonder if Tianzhou will launch on the single stick LEO version of the LM-5DY in the future, making China’s space station resupply fully semi-reusable and somewhat on par with Cargo Dragon in terms of economics.

[steve9728]

52 minutes ago, SunlitZelkova said:

This means the projected (theorized?) cargo version of the Next Generation Crewed Spacecraft may have been cancelled or put on hold.

I don't really think so. If I remember correctly, there was an interview with the design institute of the new manned spacecraft. They said the difference between the cargo and the manned version was just the difference between putting the toilets, sits and control panels in or not.

Without taking any responsibility for my own speculation, I would guess that the current Tianzhou is probably a "transitional model": the problem of availability will be solved first, and then figure out how to upgrade it. I think if the cargo version NGCS finally launch, the Tianzhou may more focus on use non-pressurised cargo holds to carry something interesting items that don't need to be pressurised for transport, such as solar panels may need.

Edited November 10, 2022 by steve9728

[steve9728]

On 11/3/2022 at 12:58 AM, steve9728 said:

Add: I thought that YouTube don't have its video, and that's wrong. It has two cargo holds front and rear.

I watched the live broadcast of today's air show and the reporter visited its manufacturer, Tengden. The staff said that the structure of the middle compartment of this UAV at the exhibition (which is also shown in the video) "can't revealed why they do it like that for some reason, but the front and rear cargo compartments are through in general application." "In addition to that," said the staff, "It can be fitted with cargo deck like a normal cargo plane and is capable of performing airdrop missions"

As to whether they have any UAV for manned model, they said, "yep, but it's still being designed. But our company has a rule that we don't promote any aircraft that haven't made their first flight yet. So let's just wait a bit"

[steve9728]

 

The house really needs a storage room. And looks these plants are growing beautifully!

[Spaceception]

3 hours ago, steve9728 said:

 

The house really needs a storage room. And looks these plants are growing beautifully!

Hydroponics? That looks interesting. Plants being grown in space for more than just experiments would be very nice to see in more future space stations.

[SunlitZelkova]

https://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/en/news/20221110_25/
 

LM-5B fairing half and other debris, presumably from Mengtian, found in Filipino waters.

Philippines says it will move to ratify OST. They signed in 1967 but have not ratified it.

No damage this time, but a tad concerning!

[steve9728]

9 hours ago, Spaceception said:

Hydroponics? That looks interesting. Plants being grown in space for more than just experiments would be very nice to see in more future space stations.

Yes but not quite:

From Tiangong TV S03 E22. Not quite clear whether the roots are soil or water, but the leafy parts are basically soaked in water.

And this, probably the same black bag as the one with the parcels all over the aisle. Honestly, it doesn't look like hydroponics to me.

On 10/4/2022 at 6:19 PM, steve9728 said:

It doesn't officially say what it is, is it a tomato seedling?

Spoiler

I admire the courage of my current boss: he's planning to take me, literally a rookie, and two other senior employees on a business trip. There is no way to go to the Zhuhai Airshow.

Happy birthday, PLAAF!

Edited November 11, 2022 by steve9728

[steve9728]

According to the CCTV programme list, the countdown to the launch of the Tianzhou-5 will begin at 9:20am CST tomorrow. 

The words in yellow box in English: Live Newsroom (Space Special)

Someone has calculated the phase difference and concluded that the time between launch and docking could be faster than ever before - three hours or possibly even about two hours.

[steve9728]

Video from an hour ago (technically is two)

Xinhua: Now it has been successfully docked with the station.

Launch time is 10:03:12 and docked in 12:10 57. 2 hours 7 minutes and 45 seconds. WOW!

Edited November 12, 2022 by steve9728

[steve9728]

 

A new record: the fastest docking after the cold war.

How crazy that the cold war was!

[steve9728]

I forget this one in morning! The second mission for CZ-6A rocket.

According to this patch, I think this is a SAR satellite. These two orcas are so lovely!

Edited November 12, 2022 by steve9728

[magnemoe]

On 11/7/2022 at 9:10 PM, Vanamonde said:

Looks like one of the sets from 2001.  

A bit more tidy than it will become then in use.