Where Is Multiplayer?

[PalmettoSC]

Kerbal space program has been around for a while and there is still no official online multiplayer? Why? This feature is screaming to be added. For example an online sandbox mode where you can play with friends. Not only would this allow current players to enjoy this great game even more, it would generate the company more money. More people would be asking their friends to buy the game so that they can play online with them. So what is up with this? 

[Rocket In My Pocket]

Welcome to the forums!

If you are asking in an official capacity, I assume that Squad has (up to this point at least) felt it was more important to focus on other features instead. Considering the "Making History DLC" is their big project right now, I doubt multiplayer is anywhere on the upcoming horizon.

If you are asking for opinions; I don't think the game would benefit much from multiplayer. 90% of the game play is spent in the VAB/SPH building or in the map view performing burns.  You could mess around with your friends sure; but there are lots of games to do that if you want. If multiplayer could be added for free magically without sacrificing time money and manpower that could be spent on more important things I'd be happy to see it but as it stands; I think it's the wrong direction to take a rather niche single player focused "lego-building/orbital mechanics teacher" game.

Edited October 18, 2017 by Rocket In My Pocket

[Chemp]

Welcome PalmettoSC!

This is actually a recurring question with several threads dedicated to the subject. It's a rather controversial point, I think this is the most recent thread if you're looking for more in-depth explanations.

[Spricigo]

As pointed out is a recurring request. And by now the argument pro and against it are also 'recurring'.

Personally I have no interest in a multiplayer mod except for some curiosity on how some issues would be dealt with. 

[Kerbinchaser]

[Vanamonde]

A post or two have been removed from this thread. If you're not interested in a thread, just skip to the next one. No need to make fun of fellow KSP players. 

[NSEP]

Because Squad does not have all the time to add in cool features? Sure, everyone wants and pressures squad to do it, but that just does not help.

[mystik]

13 hours ago, PalmettoSC said:

Kerbal space program has been around for a while and there is still no official online multiplayer? Why? This feature is screaming to be added. For example an online sandbox mode where you can play with friends. Not only would this allow current players to enjoy this great game even more, it would generate the company more money. More people would be asking their friends to buy the game so that they can play online with them. So what is up with this? 

And how would multiplayer work with time acceleration? Or do you get to play only real time? Good luck ever reaching Eeloo playing like that. Your grandkids will be the ones flying the rocket back.

Not all games should have multiplayer. This request is not realistic and childish. Plus, how many people would have the time to play when someone else has time, how do you go back if you decide to reload?

[ZooNamedGames]

18 hours ago, PalmettoSC said:

Kerbal space program has been around for a while and there is still no official online multiplayer? Why? This feature is screaming to be added. For example an online sandbox mode where you can play with friends. Not only would this allow current players to enjoy this great game even more, it would generate the company more money. More people would be asking their friends to buy the game so that they can play online with them. So what is up with this? 

One of the most common requests which also falls into the most complex requests due to answering the question "how does the game handle time warp". Some say you remove it. Some say you sync crafts together (the way DMP handles it) and others have their own concepts but many of them don't work and the biggest reason why is because KSP is designed from the ground up to be a singleplayer game. Unlike another popular sandbox game, Garry's Mod (GMod), that was designed with multiplayer in the forefront whereas multiplayer capability hasn't for KSP.

In my personal opinion (and solely that), I don't think multiplayer will release for KSP1. Instead with T2, Squad will develop KSP2 and that will have multiplayer compatibility built it from the forefront. Attempting to modify KSP in it's current state is insane as the patch fixes and updates have created a disconnected array of additions to the game. It'd be easier and simpler to build a game from the ground up to offer multiplayer. Again, this is an opinion.

[Kerbart]

18 hours ago, PalmettoSC said:

Kerbal space program has been around for a while and there is still no official online multiplayer? Why? This feature is screaming to be added. For example an online sandbox mode where you can play with friends. Not only would this allow current players to enjoy this great game even more, it would generate the company more money. More people would be asking their friends to buy the game so that they can play online with them. So what is up with this? 

Since pointing out that this has been asked a million times before is not allowed...

yes, a very good question, and remarkably nobody has ever brought it up. It’s indeed a mystery why this hasn’t been implemented yet!

A few things to keep in mind:

• KSP runs on Unity. Perhaps running multi-player games on Unity is not as easy as one would think it is.
• Multi-player games either connect peer-to-peer or require a server. Servers cost money. One of the ways to solve that is by charging subscription fees or micropayments. I’m not going to suggest that that has been discussed to death (for obvious reasons) but I wouldn’t exclude the possibility that the KSP community in general would be fairly hostile to such a business model. That makes running multi-player with centralized servers hard. Of course you could release a server pack individuals can run, but now it has to (potentially) run on low-grade hardware with subpar bandwidth and create a bad user experience.
• There are issues beyond the logistics of connecting players with each other. For instance, how to handle timewarp. If, hypothetically, someone in the past thought multiplayer was a good idea (maybe to the point of making a mod for it, if only someone would!) they might have discovered that claiming “timewarp is the easiest issue to solve in multiplayer” turned out to be a very optimistic claim. While picking a certain strategy to handle timewarp is easy, it’s usually not satisfactory to at least some of the players.
• Griefers would be another issue. People who just join a multiplayer server to smash their ships into others, deorbit fuel stations, etc. 
• Lag. If you’re moving at 3000m/s, being off by 1/100th of a second means you’re short, or overshooting, by 30m. That’s enough to turn safe docking or landing into a disaster.

It’s not that these issues cannot be solved (although I would think that, once the community is aware of this multi-player concept, they might struggle to come up with a generally accepted time-warp resolution); it’s that making it all work is much, much difficult than coming up,with the idea of multi-player in the first place.

On a positive note: now that it has been brought up, we can start thinking about solutions!

[osimmac]

On 10/19/2017 at 10:14 AM, Kerbart said:

Since pointing out that this has been asked a million times before is not allowed...

yes, a very good question, and remarkably nobody has ever brought it up. It’s indeed a mystery why this hasn’t been implemented yet!

A few things to keep in mind:

• KSP runs on Unity. Perhaps running multi-player games on Unity is not as easy as one would think it is.
• Multi-player games either connect peer-to-peer or require a server. Servers cost money. One of the ways to solve that is by charging subscription fees or micropayments. I’m not going to suggest that that has been discussed to death (for obvious reasons) but I wouldn’t exclude the possibility that the KSP community in general would be fairly hostile to such a business model. That makes running multi-player with centralized servers hard. Of course you could release a server pack individuals can run, but now it has to (potentially) run on low-grade hardware with subpar bandwidth and create a bad user experience.
• There are issues beyond the logistics of connecting players with each other. For instance, how to handle timewarp. If, hypothetically, someone in the past thought multiplayer was a good idea (maybe to the point of making a mod for it, if only someone would!) they might have discovered that claiming “timewarp is the easiest issue to solve in multiplayer” turned out to be a very optimistic claim. While picking a certain strategy to handle timewarp is easy, it’s usually not satisfactory to at least some of the players.
• Griefers would be another issue. People who just join a multiplayer server to smash their ships into others, deorbit fuel stations, etc. 
• Lag. If you’re moving at 3000m/s, being off by 1/100th of a second means you’re short, or overshooting, by 30m. That’s enough to turn safe docking or landing into a disaster.

It’s not that these issues cannot be solved (although I would think that, once the community is aware of this multi-player concept, they might struggle to come up with a generally accepted time-warp resolution); it’s that making it all work is much, much difficult than coming up,with the idea of multi-player in the first place.

On a positive note: now that it has been brought up, we can start thinking about solutions!

 

 

a few things to keep in mind...

• KMP, DMP, and now LMP all are MODS created by the community that adds a primordial form of multiplayer, its not perfect at all, but it proves that multiplayer is possible.
• The community could run their own servers if Squad released the server software alongside the client, just as most games do like minecraft, CS, gmod...
• Timewarp issues are already solved, just look at the mods i mentioned above, there are many solutions to the issue, each with their own pro's and con's; none of them game breaking.
• Griefers could be an "issue", but i think we're all mature enough to not do that, most people just want to be able to play with a group of friends or find new friends on servers. Griefers can be banned and crafts can be relaunched.
• Lag isn't an issue because relativity. If you're docking in space, you shouldn't be travelling 3km/s relative to the craft you are docking with when close/approaching; the mods i mentioned above allow people to dock their craft together, and if all the checks for if a ship is landed or not is done client side, then sent to the server, lag would be irrelevant. 

The reason why people really want squad to develop multiplayer is because we've already created one, proving its feasibility; but its very limiting and buggy, career mode and other aspects of the game have no way of handling multiple players on a single save, so sandbox mode is most commonly used used, also whenever updates are rolled out, the mod usually breaks and requires some time to be fixed.. I know from experience that DMP will often rotate flying craft 90 degrees and cause them to bug out while flying through the air, its bizarre and dealing with that stuff is time consuming and hard to fix.  it would be nice of squad to listen to their community and create a stable multiplayer. We don't need a KSP2 quite yet, much can still be done with this amazing game, so long as people work to improve it.

 

https://github.com/LunaMultiplayer/LunaMultiplayer

https://github.com/godarklight/DarkMultiPlayer

 

personally, im disappointed with the making history expansion, but i would gladly pay 15-20 bucks just for solid multiplayer support.  being able to share the KSP experience would make the game 1000x better, just flying space planes together is amazing.

Edited March 31, 2018 by osimmac

[Spricigo]

15 hours ago, osimmac said:

• KMP, DMP, and now LMP all are MODS created by the community that adds a primordial form of multiplayer, its not perfect at all, but it proves that multiplayer is possible.

And all the issues with that mods also demonstrate that the task is not simple. The resources allocated to this task are resources not being used for something else, thus Squad need to make a choice between multiplayer and whatever other feature is in their to do list.

Is not just a matter of being possible or not, is a matter of limited resources.

 

15 hours ago, osimmac said:

• The community could run their own servers if Squad released the server software alongside the client, just as most games do like minecraft, CS, gmod...

This option also bring their set of limitations (a few pointed by kerbart). But more important, if the player base was more open to the idea of paying subscription/micropayments that would solve an important point for Squad: making profit from multiplayer.

16 hours ago, osimmac said:

• Timewarp issues are already solved, just look at the mods i mentioned above, there are many solutions to the issue, each with their own pro's and con's; none of them game breaking.

There is many solutions, the point is which one to use. As said:

On 19/10/2017 at 2:14 PM, Kerbart said:

While picking a certain strategy to handle timewarp is easy, it’s usually not satisfactory to at least some of the players.

Also, timewarp  is just the more evident case of divergence of opinions on how to make multiplayer. There is the question of craft ownership and control, how contracts will be offered, if science can be traded/shared...

On 19/10/2017 at 2:14 PM, Kerbart said:

Griefers would be another issue. People who just join a multiplayer server to smash their ships into others, deorbit fuel stations, etc. 

16 hours ago, osimmac said:

Griefers could be an "issue", but i think we're all mature enough to not do that, most people just want to be able to play with a group of friends or find new friends on servers. Griefers can be banned and crafts can be relaunched

Deorbiting fuel stations and smashing ships into others can, in principle, be the entire point of a particular server/game.  What kind of behaviour is actually griefing change with the context and people involved.

Nonetheless we may rest assured that at some point that is an issue that need to be dealt with. In a game for all ages is very naive to expect that everyone will be mature.

 

17 hours ago, osimmac said:

Lag isn't an issue because relativity.

Ignoring the issue don't make it go away. If timing and synchronization is important (and there is many instances in KSP multiplayer where it would be) then lag is an issue.

 

17 hours ago, osimmac said:

it would be nice of squad to listen to their community and create a stable multiplayer

The same way is nice of squad to listen to the "stock DMP" crowd, is nice to listen to people that have a different opinion how to implement Mp and the people that prefer squad resources being devoted to other features.  

In any case, whatever option they make about the subject, there is a lot of work ahead.

 

[Red Thought]

I, for one, don't really want multiplayer.    A multiplayer game like this would be great, but the physics would have to be different.   I could imagine that instead of normal KSP time warp, perhaps there could layers of physical warp not based of time but on speed, when you break into another sphere of influence or, reach a certain altitude above a body,   These warps would be physical warps, in that time would not be warped, rather players speed, or progression on particular orbit.    This would fix the issue  of players having to wait on other players, while still keeping base orbital mechanics in game.  At the start of each warp a player could choose how long he wants to warp for before stopping to alter course and then be able to enter back into warp.   Perhaps this could be done somehow with a mod or in the stock game, using a special engine or something else,  but it would be a giant change for base game, unmodded.   

[ARS]

The main issue of multiplayer is, unlike regular multiplayer game, which confines several players in a small world, KSP's world is A LOT larger than most games, and planetary transfer can take days, months or even years. To prevent the game from astronomically boring (pun intended), people just timewarp their way to the desired destination, saving them a lot of time. Just imagine when you implement an "actual" multiplayer timeflow, you've finished a transfer burn to outermost planet and it takes 1 year to reach the destination. Now have fun doing nothing for 1 year waiting for it (which, in real life space program, the long time between planetary transfer is indeed, spent doing... Nothing).

As pointed above, people who join for "science" by blowing things up can cause issues (and indeed, since the only available target in stock game is KSC itself, multiplayer presents them with "target rich environment"), but the other problem is people who create ships with insane part count. Not all people have high spec gaming rig for 1500 part ship, a lot of us just use potato computer and running KSP stock purely for fun. When you just want to fly your small jet aircraft, and suddenly your friend flies beside you with 2000 part monster, the sudden lag can cause the game to crash when your potato computer isn't strong enough to handle high part count (game crashing due to high part count is very common problem)

[Wjolcz]

In a different game.

[322997am]

Guys extrapolate from missing data. Seriously. We've been asking since 0.7.3, we were always promised, it was never made. It wont happen. I was part of the people who were campaigning for this on the forums back in '16. Squad doesnt want to do it, it wont happen. resistance is futile

[Talos]

There are two perfectly good working multiplayer mods at the moment. At this time, I'd prefer Squad to focus on adding new singleplayer content rather than make a multiplayer game mode.

[Wjolcz]

4 hours ago, 322997am said:

Guys extrapolate from missing data. Seriously. We've been asking since 0.7.3, we were always promised, it was never made. It wont happen. I was part of the people who were campaigning for this on the forums back in '16. Squad doesnt want to do it, it wont happen. resistance is futile

This isn't the case of them wanting to or not. It just won't work. And if it was meant to work it wouldn't be worth it.

[IceTitan]

Unlike most people here i would just enjoy a multiplayer mode where 2 or more people control 1 rocket/spaceship.

[GrouchyDevotee]

PS4 Enhanced Edition player here.

I have noticed the multi-player discussion mentioned on these forums a couple times. I've played many multi-players games before, and probably will again, so I understand the concept.

What I honestly don't understand about this request is this;

What would you actually want to do in a multi-player KSP game?

[KenjiKrafts]

On 17/04/2018 at 4:07 PM, GrouchyDevotee said:

PS4 Enhanced Edition player here.

I have noticed the multi-player discussion mentioned on these forums a couple times. I've played many multi-players games before, and probably will again, so I understand the concept.

What I honestly don't understand about this request is this;

What would you actually want to do in a multi-player KSP game?

Real Time Dogfighting would be a start, I could really put my tanks through their pases and you could even do Space X vs NASA. 

Not that this will happen or be pleasant as you'd have to sacrifice the time warp 

[GrouchyDevotee]

48 minutes ago, KenjiKrafts said:

Real Time Dogfighting would be a start, I could really put my tanks through their pases and you could even do Space X vs NASA. 

Not that this will happen or be pleasant as you'd have to sacrifice the time warp 

One of the things I personally like about Kerbal Space Program specifically is the absence of all the Pew, Pew, Pew..

My favourite multi-player games are air to air combat, so yeah I see what you are saying, but why not just play a game optimised for that? My Play Station is already struggling to keep up with this. 

I know everybody likes different things for a variety of reasons, so don't get me wrong, but comparing rockets isn't why I play this game.

It would be a neat timeline game though, as a difficulty setting for career mode, play a 'timed' game against what Russia and United States accomplished in the early years.

 

[Mark Kerbin]

Im just imagining the lag....

My (reasonable good) PC struggles to deal with large vessels. I can't even begin to imagine the insanity that would be multiplayer. Even with just 2 people you are still talking about vast amounts of data.

Edited April 20, 2018 by Mark Kerbin

[RedPandaz]

On 10/19/2017 at 5:03 AM, mystik said:

And how would multiplayer work with time acceleration? Or do you get to play only real time? Good luck ever reaching Eeloo playing like that. Your grandkids will be the ones flying the rocket back.

Not all games should have multiplayer. This request is not realistic and childish. Plus, how many people would have the time to play when someone else has time, how do you go back if you decide to reload?

Maybe real time would only work in-atmosphere/planet range [sayyy, 1000km?], and outside of the atmosphere it would work like singleplayer? If you wanted to go with buddies you could form into an in-game group and have the same local time, all agreeing on a time warp?

On 4/19/2018 at 5:51 PM, Mark Kerbin said:

Im just imagining the lag....

My (reasonable good) PC struggles to deal with large vessels. I can't even begin to imagine the insanity that would be multiplayer. Even with just 2 people you are still talking about vast amounts of data.

In this case though I think a good deal could be allieviated by moving the calculations to large Squad servers

[Mark Kerbin]

4 hours ago, RedPandaz said:

In this case though I think a good deal could be allieviated by moving the calculations to large Squad servers

And you think they have money for that... how, exactly?