Air Superiority Fighter Competition Continued

[AlexClark]

4 minutes ago, dundun93 said:

That's because he had infinite fuel on. @AlexClark that would have been your excuse... I do it all the time.

If I can ever get KSP to load again to test, I'm sure that is the case. Since I moved everything to the rig at home, I've been having a lot of issues with Vessel Mover, BDA, structural failures, and loading screen freezes...

Edited January 16, 2018 by AlexClark

[goduranus]

On 12/29/2017 at 10:55 PM, exbyde said:

Top Five

Place	Creator	Craft Name	# of Mods (excluding BDA)
1	@Eidahlil	Pike	0
2	@goduranus	Rabid Squirrel	0
3	@Earthlinger	Berzerker 2.0	0
4	@Abraxis	DN-65c	0
5	@kittenshark134	F-19d Sparrowdart	0

 

Rabid Squirrel has 1 mod excluding BDA.

[exbyde]

6 hours ago, goduranus said:

Rabid Squirrel has 1 mod excluding BDA.

no one has ever updated that section, and i don't intend to, but thanks

[Piatzin]

Seems like the Berzerkers are cursed to be shoved down a rank whenever they make it close to the top. The originals held the #1 spot for like thirty minutes before being replaced by the Dorito, and 2.0 succumbed to the rabies within an hour

[exbyde]

3 minutes ago, Earthlinger said:

Seems like the Berzerkers are cursed to be shoved down a rank whenever they make it close to the top. The originals held the #1 spot for like thirty minutes before being replaced by the Dorito, and 2.0 succumbed to the rabies within an hour

hint: make a 2.1 with a single/pair of AIM-9s. May have done better if it wasnt being routed.

[Piatzin]

51 minutes ago, exbyde said:

hint: make a 2.1 with a single/pair of AIM-9s. May have done better if it wasnt being routed.

I've already made a version like that

Might submit later, but most likely I'll just design something new

[goduranus]

21 hours ago, Abraxis said:

but what if R60 OP?

I dug at the mod files, looks like R60 is straight up better than AIM-9, having half the mass, but the same thrust and warhead power. So it has twice the acceleration, weights down the carrying craft less and has no downsides.

[exbyde]

4 minutes ago, goduranus said:

I dug at the mod files, looks like R60 is straight up better than AIM-9, having half the mass, but the same thrust and warhead power. So it has twice the acceleration, weights down the carrying craft less and has no downsides.

But does it have any significant upsides that would make it more accurate or harder to jink? speed isn't necessarily a good thing.

[AlexClark]

9 minutes ago, goduranus said:

I dug at the mod files, looks like R60 is straight up better than AIM-9, having half the mass, but the same thrust and warhead power. So it has twice the acceleration, weights down the carrying craft less and has no downsides.

I've used both AIM-9 and R60 extensively, on lots of aircraft. The main advantage of the R60 is the weight/size. I can pack the same punch with an R60, but load twice as many on a fighter VS the AIM-9. As far as actual performance, they work with the same accuracy and dependability.

As @exbyde famously referred to my X-24, the "Missile Molester"

Edited January 17, 2018 by AlexClark

[exbyde]

3 minutes ago, AlexClark said:

I've used both AIM-9 and R60 extensively, on lots of aircraft. The main advantage of the R60 is the weight/size. I can pack the same punch with an R60, but load twice as many on a fighter VS the AIM-9. As far as actual performance, they work with the same accuracy and dependability.

As @exbyde famously referred to my X-24, the "Missile Molester"

see, there aren't a lot of dogfights here won by missiles. If one is, its usually a sign of an oversight or oversized aircraft. And i don't think i referred to the x-24 as the missile molester, i said the X-24 got molested by missiles because all the kills were missiles, showing an oversight in the CHAFF/ECM/FLARE department.

Also @darth_bachious i am testing your aircraft, and while it is unwritten, ailerons/ control surfaces that function for roll/pitch/yaw are essential if not required.

[AlexClark]

5 minutes ago, exbyde said:

see, there aren't a lot of dogfights here won by missiles. If one is, its usually a sign of an oversight or oversized aircraft. And i don't think i referred to the x-24 as the missile molester, i said the X-24 got molested by missiles because all the kills were missiles, showing an oversight in the CHAFF/ECM/FLARE department.

 

Now I took that as I had too many missiles, hence the X-59 having 0 missiles and 8 Vulcans. You cut me deep @exbyde, cut me real deep...

[exbyde]

4 minutes ago, AlexClark said:

Now I took that as I had too many missiles, hence the X-59 having 0 missiles and 8 Vulcans. You cut me deep @exbyde, cut me real deep...

You did, if used properly, a lot of missiles isn't a horrible thing. You had your missiles set to one per target, i would have expected...what, like six with that kind of weapons loadout? Would be great if set up for routing until you got to the drones/low profile stuff. Your aircraft got hit hard by missiles because its ECM/CHAFF systems were not up to snuff, and you gave up maneuverability by using a non-vectoring engine.

On 1/8/2018 at 10:20 PM, exbyde said:

Er...it's gonna need more mods than that. Put it up against the Mini Val:

Few things i noticed:

1. Underpowered, could use a second engine

2. too heavy, most fighters are 4-6t/engine, yours is 10. Reduce fuel to 200u total

3. Thrust vectoring is very critical, very few aircraft make it on the board without a panther engine or the like.

4. Too many missiles, 25% of your parts are missiles or missile rails.

 

My points still stand, you could have used more thrust or less weight, and 25% of your aircraft weight was missiles which may as well have been on static display. Watch the videos and figure out what you need to change from that.

Alright @darth_bachious its time to test out the 325 A Raider against the #5, @kittenshark134's F-19-d SparrowDart

Unfortunately, this aircraft has no ailerons and sluggish elevator, giving it the handling of a 737 taking off for a transcontinental spring break flight. Weight needed to be a little more centered, and putting 3 tons on the wingtips didnt help with that. Better luck next time.

[exbyde]

@Eidahlil I cannot fully disclose my displeasure for the flying sunfish you have created due to the rules of offensive language on this forum. There is no reason this aircraft, this conglomeration of one of the weakest, most inappropriate for combat engines in KSC's inventory, wing strakes, and sidewinders should have any place on this board. It's not capable of actually flying to its waypoint at first start, instead opting to circle the KSC randomly until i reset the combat. Its strongsuit is throwing missiles like a pedophile at a childrens parade. But somehow it's dethroned @kittenshark134's F-19d. I really don't think there's an aircraft i've rooted for less than this flying meme.

so, yeah...

good job. you proved me wrong.

[exbyde]

right, i clearly don't have the mental capacities to continue this tonight, so i will continue posting videos tomorrow. Spoiler

Spoiler

The Flying Sunfish beats out the DN-65c for the #4 spot

 

[goduranus]

53 minutes ago, exbyde said:

one of the weakest, most inappropriate for combat engines in KSC's inventory

The Juno's heat is low enough that IR missiles don't lock onto most of the time. Although, I don't think crafts with tweakable values outside normal ranges should be allowed, the Hedgedrone and Pike both have settings outside of normal ranges.

Hedgedrone's AI settings, weapon swap interval, and missile offbore angle are way different than what people can set in game, giving it an advantage over players who don't know to how text edit the craft file:

Here I suspect that max G force and max AoA controls when the autopilot decides to break off of its gun run, and by giving them huge values the plane will stay on target's tail when normal planes would have broken off and reset its maneuvers.

Quote

        name = BDModulePilotAI
        isEnabled = True
        pilotEnabled = False
        defaultAltitude = 1200
        minAltitude = 500
        steerMult = 18
        pitchKiAdjust = 0
        maxSteer = 1
        steerDamping = 8
        maxSpeed = 200
        takeOffSpeed = 70
        minSpeed = 1
        idleSpeed = 200
        maxAllowedGForce = 539
        maxAllowedAoA = 539

Also the scan interval, normally is 3, which I think sets how often the plane can switch weapons. Low value helps it avoid cases where the plane momentarily fails to open fire because the target moved into the range of a different weapon, but the AI has yet to switch to that weapon. Also the max Missile on target usually capped at 6 but doesn't matter in this case.

Quote

        name = MissileFire
        isEnabled = True
        weaponIndex = 0
        targetScanInterval = 0.2
        fireBurstLength = 0.2
        guardAngle = 360
        guardRange = 40000
        gunRange = 600
        maxMissilesOnTarget = 12
        guardMode = False
        team = False
        isArmed = False
        stagingEnabled = True

And missiles with offbore set to 100 where it's normally 50, allowing it to shoot at stuff at higher deflection angles

Quote

        shortName = AIM-9
        maxStaticLaunchRange = 8000
        minStaticLaunchRange = -80000
        maxOffBoresight = 100
        DetonationDistance = 7.5
        dropTime = 0
        inCargoBay = False
        detonationTime = 2
        BallisticOverShootFactor = 0.699999988
        engageEnabled = True
        engageRangeMin = -80000
        engageRangeMax = 8000
        engageAir = True
        engageMissile = False
        engageGround = False
        engageSLW = False
        stagingEnabled = True

 

Edited January 17, 2018 by goduranus

[Piatzin]

1 hour ago, exbyde said:

@Eidahlil I cannot fully disclose my displeasure for the flying sunfish you have created due to the rules of offensive language on this forum. There is no reason this aircraft, this conglomeration of one of the weakest, most inappropriate for combat engines in KSC's inventory, wing strakes, and sidewinders should have any place on this board. It's not capable of actually flying to its waypoint at first start, instead opting to circle the KSC randomly until i reset the combat. Its strongsuit is throwing missiles like a pedophile at a childrens parade. But somehow it's dethroned @kittenshark134's F-19d. I really don't think there's an aircraft i've rooted for less than this flying meme.

Wait what? I'm confused, what's wrong with the plane? It's a meme? What?

55 minutes ago, goduranus said:

Although, I don't think crafts with tweakable values outside normal ranges should be allowed, the Hedgedrone and Pike both have settings outside of normal ranges.

Yeah... ^ We found out about the Pike after my Berzerker somehow acquired those settings, but I had expected Eidahlil to refrain from text editing future craft....

1 hour ago, exbyde said:

The Flying Sunfish beats out the DN-65c for the #4 spot

Eek

[Abraxis]

Wait I have a brilliant idea

to what extent can we take directly modifying the .craft file?

Edited January 17, 2018 by Abraxis

[exbyde]

11 minutes ago, Earthlinger said:

Wait what? I'm confused, what's wrong with the plane? It's a meme? What?

Eidahlil developed this plane specifically after i told AlexClark he needed thrust vectored engines and fewer missiles on his plane. and somehow this thing works

1 hour ago, goduranus said:

And missiles with offbore set to 100 where it's normally 50, allowing it to shoot at stuff at higher deflection angles

why would you leave a setting like that as a tweakable? that seems like something that should be hard-coded into the weapon. That's like leaving the max thrust of an engine as something you can tweak in a craft file.

[goduranus]

9 minutes ago, Abraxis said:

Wait I have a brilliant idea

to what extent can we directly modify the .craft file with our own custom values, that can't necessarily be set while in-game?

Do you mean what is technically possible? or what we should submit for the thread?  Text editing allows you to give an engine more thrust and use no fuel, give SAS modules more torque and your batteries more electricity. So you could potentially build a craft with much higher thrust to weight ratio and faster steering. You can also edit the alignment of guns so they line up perfectly instead of being very slightly off when you attach them to curved surfaces. With BDArmory, you can influence of the autopilot logic and change various AI settings, like how much to lead missile launches and how far away to launch them from and how often to check for weapon switches.

Edited January 17, 2018 by goduranus

[Abraxis]

2 minutes ago, goduranus said:

or what we should submit for the thread? 

that's right

100x engine thrust plane

can we do it

( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Piatzin]

44 minutes ago, Abraxis said:

can we do it

Super category

Not the normal one

59 minutes ago, exbyde said:

Eidahlil developed this plane specifically after i told AlexClark he needed thrust vectored engines and fewer missiles on his plane. and somehow this thing works

Ah okay

[NotAnAimbot]

10 hours ago, Abraxis said:

100x engine thrust plane

can we do it

if OP allows all mods I don't see why we couldn't take advantage of stock

[Piatzin]

55 minutes ago, NotAnAimbot said:

if OP allows all mods I don't see why we couldn't take advantage of stock

There's a difference between a mod that has had dozens of hours invested into it in an effort to make it realistic and balanced and a text edited engine or AI pilot that was patched together simply by typing in big numbers

[Abraxis]

14 minutes ago, Earthlinger said:

There's a difference between a mod that has had dozens of hours invested into it in an effort to make it realistic and balanced and a text edited engine or AI pilot that was patched together simply by typing in big numbers

But what makes mine super while Eidahill's is not? Don't we all have wildly differing definitions of how much is editing too much?

Edited January 17, 2018 by Abraxis

[exbyde]

1 hour ago, NotAnAimbot said:

if OP allows all mods I don't see why we couldn't take advantage of stock

Using a mod and modifying stock values are different. Even then mention is made to propulsion systems and weapons. I may dq pike, the sunfish and berzerker 2 if anything more than bdai values were tweaked outside an editor.