Zuma Discussion

[Racescort666]

Since the SpaceX thread is getting a little off topic with the Zuma discussion, I figured that a new thread to discuss it would be worth while. I know in the past on this forum we have discussed the technical details of stealth spacecraft which makes this article especially interesting: http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/17612/the-secret-zuma-spacecraft-could-be-alive-and-well-doing-exactly-what-it-was-intended-to 

[NSEP]

I think Zuma is a satellite destroyer with a expensive lazer big laser.

Also, since the payload adapter is made NG themselves its really probably their own fault for the failure.

[DDE]

Just now, NSEP said:

I think Zuma is a satellite destroyer with a expensive lazer big laser.

Too small.

[Racescort666]

7 minutes ago, NSEP said:

I think Zuma is a satellite destroyer with a expensive lazer big laser.

Also, since the payload adapter is made NG themselves its really probably their own fault for the failure.

I wonder what the reasoning behind making their own payload adapter is though?

[Gaarst]

8 minutes ago, Racescort666 said:

I wonder what the reasoning behind making their own payload adapter is though?

Good luck building a payload adapter without ever seeing the payload.

[Piatzin]

I have the sneaking suspicion that the payload wasn't actually destroyed. With all the secrecy, it might be to distract anyone who wants to find out what it is

And yes I get paranoid sometimes

[Scotius]

Well, everything was so top secret, we weren't even allowed to see stage separation. And yet government freely announced mission's failure due to total loss of the craft? Fishy. Very fishy.

[_Augustus_]

34 minutes ago, DDE said:

Too small.

Polyus was hastily thrown together from off-the-shelf parts. A purpose-designed vehicle would be much smaller.

[Gaarst]

3 minutes ago, Scotius said:

And yet government freely announced mission's failure due to total loss of the craft?

No, some randoms rumours popped out from nowhere and somehow turned into facts. There was no announcement from anyone about anything besides SpaceX saying they didn't do anything wrong.

Edited January 12, 2018 by Gaarst

[magnemoe]

3 minutes ago, Gaarst said:

Good luck building a payload adapter without ever seeing the payload.

Yes, payload is top secret so you make your own adapter, this is double true if the satellite wanted an specialized adapter, as it did not have standard interface. think a cradle as it did not have hard points in bottom. 

Now the only known thing is that if the falcon 9 upper stage failed spacex would admitted it, for one they would need to find the reason and that research is hard to keep secret. 
Both the falcon 9 fails has been because of upper stage fails so they would had to look hard into another fail here. 
SpaceX would also not accept blame if it was not them for the same reason. 

Leaving some options:
1) fail either separation or circulation burn. 
2) payload was supposed to deorbit, has been work on maneuvering during hypersonic reentry even going after moving targets. Assume an falcon 9 is cheaper than an ICBM and its easier to keep the operation secret. Also explains the non standard mating as its an icbm warhead not an satellite. 
3) an stealth satellite, non standard mating to not fool up stealth, or as back is filled with solar panels and stuff. 
If an technology demonstrator you want an mystery to see how long until some find it. 
Note that just an unknown orbit as you can hide from enemy satellites if you know about them. 

 

[GoSlash27]

I'm going with an ELINT sat for the NSA. I think it's up there and operational.

Best,
-Slashy

[NSEP]

38 minutes ago, DDE said:

Too small.

Woops nearly forgot XD. There has been some conspiracy floating around that claimed that the California Fires have been caused by Terawatt lasers from soace.but when i remember how massive Polyus was, that seems unlikely.

Its a billion dollar project however, unlike those other cheap 100 million dollar satellites. I wonder what could make it expensive.

According to some sources the orbital inclination is about 40 degrees. Clues maybe?

 

[insert_name]

The CEO of iridium called it a corporate smear job and blamed Northrop Grumman

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-12/spacex-customer-blames-northrop-grumman-for-missing-satellite

Edited January 12, 2018 by insert_name

[_Augustus_]

6 minutes ago, insert_name said:

The CEO of iridium called it a corporate smear job and blamed Northrop Grumman

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-12/spacex-customer-blames-northrop-grumman-for-missing-satellite

Iridium always backs SpaceX and happily flies on reused boosters. I love them now.

[PB666]

58 minutes ago, Scotius said:

Well, everything was so top secret, we weren't even allowed to see stage separation. And yet government freely announced mission's failure due to total loss of the craft? Fishy. Very fishy.

Source?

[Shpaget]

1 hour ago, Gaarst said:

Good luck building a payload adapter without ever seeing the payload.

A proper technical drawing of attachment point would be enough for any competent machinist to make the thing.

43 minutes ago, insert_name said:

The CEO of iridium called it a corporate smear job and blamed Northrop Grumman

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-01-12/spacex-customer-blames-northrop-grumman-for-missing-satellite

We don't even have the official confirmation that the sat is lost, only rumors and hear says.

Even if the rumor that the "lawmaker was informed of total loss" is 100% true, that doesn't mean there was a loss, only that it was presented as such.

I doubt that "the lawmaker" gets to know what is Zuma.

[monstah]

AFAIK, the rumours started because SpaceX never reported it as a success. It never occurred to me that the satellite could be perfectly fine, but, thinking about it and what I've read this week, it makes perfect sense.

 

edit - I read the link on the OP, and i found it a quite good sum up of the reliable info I've read this week... until this started:

Quote

There is a possibility that Zuma is actually working properly, but is otherwise masked from observers on the ground and their commercially available tracking capabilities.

That’s right, it's possible that Zuma’s launch went exactly as planned, and that a new form of largely untrackable spacecraft has been put into orbit. 

[emphasis mine]

The jump from "The official tracking doesn't give out its orbital details because it's classified and amateurs haven't located it" to "OMG STEALTH TECH!", and the willingness of the author to, as soon as this conclusion is drawn, completely shift the focus of the article as if that conclusion is a given, changed my attitude towards the article almost instantly...

Edited January 12, 2018 by monstah

[PB666]

1 hour ago, Gaarst said:

No, some randoms rumours popped out from nowhere and somehow turned into facts. There was no announcement from anyone about anything besides SpaceX saying they didn't do anything wrong.

Plausible deniability, a favorite occupation of governments all around the world.   I will help them, Zuma belongs to me (evil scientist grin)[all plausibly true, particularly the last part]. After is underwent payload separation I used PB666 drive to change orbit to an inclination of 65' (still on going). The fire of the second stage deorbit boosters was designed to throw everyone off course. 

See . . . . . . . . .I created a story, just feed it out over the internet and in a week half the world will believe it. YOu don't believe my story because I co-disclosed my propaganda technique, but you are easily fooled by someone else's propaganda technique when its not co-disclosed. Which is a basic problem with the internet, there is alot of information but people lack the cognitive tools to deal with it. I can assure you beyond all reasonable doubt that if NG was involved and Zuma was speculatively spy, that the Russians (and possibly Chinese) are doing their darn best to track it, and they either already are tracking it or are working to find ways of tracking it. And they are not going to tell you today that they can track it. They might want to intercept transmissions to the satellite for their own purposes and at some point and time later, maybe 5 years they will say they knew since the beginning just to undermine the will to repeat it.

If the zuma craft really crashed into the Southern Indian ocean, would you not expect military search and rescue craft to be in route (hard to keep something like that secret), just to see if any pieces were obviously floating around. There will be pieces on the beaches of Madagascar and the Diego Garcia's counter parts in a few months.

Again you guys are feeding the monster, what is that saying about best intentions. Step 1- create a hype machine (an anonymous source), feed the machine, then create a government conspiracy to embellish the hype, and the next thing you know the world thinks its crashed. Let the gullible do the rest.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glomar_Explorer

Edited January 12, 2018 by PB666

[DDE]

1 hour ago, _Augustus_ said:

Polyus was hastily thrown together from off-the-shelf parts. A purpose-designed vehicle would be much smaller.

I doubt it. Only a third of the main vehicle was the FGB, all indicators point to it being of comparable size to the operational Skif and Kaskad batteries.

[insert_name]

1 minute ago, DDE said:

I doubt it. Only a third of the main vehicle was the FGB, all indicators point to it being of comparable size to the operational Skif and Kaskad batteries.

To be fair, there has been a lot of advances in miniturization and electric propulsion since polus was launched

[kerbiloid]

If it were a suborbital test, how many Falcons are they going to spend declaring the results as "The important thing in life is not the triumph but the struggle", "not in orbit, but still success"?

Edited January 12, 2018 by kerbiloid

[PB666]

Quote

" Desch later told Bloomberg in a message that he didn’t know for sure what led to the disappearance but was speculating that a dispenser failed to release the satellite, " -Bloomberg news

Desch works for Iridium. He speculates based on rumors that the satellited did not make orbit, but all indicators are that it did make orbit because the F9 second stage made orbit and was noticed deorbiting on the second pass. Then the government says that only SpaceX can qualify the status of the space craft because it is classified, obviously it means that the US paid for the launch, which obviously mean that one of its spy agencies owns it which means that only they can report its status . . . . . . . .What if the fairing is part of the satellite, then would it need to dispense to work, just deploy. Since iridium didn't make the fairing how would they know. . . . . . . .  .

5 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

If it were a suborbital test, how many Falcons are they going to spend declaring the results as "The important thing in life is not the triumph but the struggle", "not in orbit, but still success"?

proof?

 

Edited January 12, 2018 by PB666

[sevenperforce]

The optics package for the megawatt laser on the 747YAL, which was made by Northrop Grumman, is small enough to fit inside a SpaceX fairing.

A modern megawatt-class ICBM-buster would be perfect for DPRK deterrence.

[kerbiloid]

5 minutes ago, PB666 said:

proof?

Of what?

[PB666]

7 minutes ago, kerbiloid said:

Of what?

not in orbit.