Bad science in fiction Hall of Shame

[DDE]

7 minutes ago, ARS said:

Two different terms for the same explosive substance back-to-back

If it weren’t the same, it would have been merely bad research. Some years ago I saw mentions of interwoven molecules lattices of different explosives that were supposed to pack more caboom.

9 minutes ago, ARS said:

from Iron Man 2:

You’ve come to the wrong universe.

[kerbiloid]

23 minutes ago, ARS said:

palladium isn't really all that harmful to humans

Its salts and solutions can be.

Safety cert on the Pd solution (toxic component - nitric acid)

https://www.carlroth.com/downloads/sdb/ru/2/SDB_2532_RU_RU.pdf

So, if the Stark reactor washes it out with some acid, maybe Tony collects the Pd salts.

23 minutes ago, ARS said:

Lithium Dioxide

Technically, lithium peroxide has 2 O's: Li₂O₂.

Maybe Nick Fury meant this one.

Quote

Justin Hammer'

Probably was secretly reading wiki, so just said "...and the (looks into wiki) cyclo-blah-blah-thing (RDX) "

Edited January 28, 2019 by kerbiloid

[cubinator]

8 hours ago, DDE said:

Come on, the technical term would be depleted dihydrogen monoxide projector - because a detritiated water cannon just doesn’t sound as terrifying... unril you consider the pricetag.

So, if I'm interpreting this correctly...

[DDE]

9 minutes ago, cubinator said:

So, if I'm interpreting this correctly...

Allons y!

[KerikBalm]

On 1/28/2019 at 10:19 AM, ARS said:

The frequent use of "Depleted Deuterium" in a lot of sci-fi weapons (as a cooler-sounding version of depleted uranium ammo) is particularly bad science in itself due to the fact that you can't even get depleted Deuterium, because it's a stable isotope

I've never heard this use. Your criticism doesn't make sense though. "depleted" doesn't mean stable or not stable, it means that something is absent/gone/used up. In the sense its used with depleted uranium, its uranium which has been depleted of naturally occurring U 235... that its, its the opposite of enriched uranium. It has a lower than normal U235 content. When you make enriched Uranium (enriched for U235), you also make depleted uranium (the U235 is depleted). Depleted uranium is mostly U 238, and that is pretty stable (very stable relative to U235... 4.5 billion years vs 700 million years)

The problem is that when you talk about a depleted element, you are assuming that the other party knows which isotopes you are referring to (ie which isotope it lacks).

The problem with depleted deuterium is that you aren't talking about an element with multiple isotopes, its that you are talking about only a single isotope.

If one spoke of depleted hydrogen, that would be fine... although we'd be left to wonder which isotope is absent/reduced. Is it protium that is eliminated (so its heavy hydrogen? such as used to make heavy water/in nuclear reactors?)

Is it Deuterium? Tritium? (Tritium's half life is so short, it doesn't need to be depleted unless you're taking hydrogen thats been sitting around a nuclear reactor core)

Pure Protium would have some uses.

But it doesn't make sense in general. U235 is 0.72% of natural uranium: not much, but significant (and about 2 billion years ago, or about 3 half lives ago,... there was so much that natural nuclear reactors formed on Earth). Its when you start separating uranium, making one part high in U235, and anther low- then the low part is really low and essentially gone. It would be ridiculously hard to deplete Uranium of isotope 238 (so it may be highly enriched in 235, but there's still going to be a lot of 238 in there).

Hydrogen on  the other hand... Deuterium is only 0.0156% (by atom, but roughly double by mass) of Hydrogen... its already pretty darn depleted in bulk hydrogen. To have deuterium depleted of protium requires a huge amount of enrichment.

Its nonsensical.. deuterium depleted of what? protium? Tritium? neither of those are in deuterium to be depleted (as opposed to isotope 235 of bulk Uranium) - does one just mean concentrated deuterium? Deuterium enriched hydrogen? Depleted of deuterium? Are you just talking about bulk hydrogen?

[ARS]

30 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

-snip-

Hydrogen has 3 isotopes 1H (Hydrogen), 2H (Deuterium) and 3H (Tritium) and they are all present in hydrogen. So if Hydrogen is ‘depleted’ and 2H and 3H isotopes are removed, the part that is mostly a mix of 2H and 3H could be referred to as ‘enriched Hydrogen’. If this ‘enriched Hydrogen’ (2H and 3H) was further process and the 3H was removed; the 3H could be referred to as ‘super enriched Hydrogen’. While the bulk of the remainder which is mostly 2H could now be referred to as being depleted Hydrogen – but we already have ‘depleted Hydrogen’ (the first process where 2H and 3H was removed) so it is specifically referred to as ‘depleted 2H’. This would be 2H with very little tritium in it (if any). This makes ‘depleted 2H’ a very specific name for specific product. Depleted Deuterium can only happen because Hydrogen has three isotopes of interest, and so there is two steps instead of one. There would be no Depleted Tritium as there is nothing else to take out

I've forget where I saw this term, it's already a very long time ago, but the only thing that I remember it's use is on "mass reactive depleted deuterium shells". Perhaps they were looking for a "cool" sounding isotope/element to correspond with depleted uranium (very dense non-radioactive, mostly, substance) and blew it.

Correct me if I'm wrong

[KerikBalm]

1 hour ago, ARS said:

if Hydrogen is ‘depleted’ and 2H and 3H isotopes are removed, the part that is mostly a mix of 2H and 3H could be referred to as ‘enriched Hydrogen’. If this ‘enriched Hydrogen’ (2H and 3H) was further process and the 3H was removed; the 3H could be referred to as ‘super enriched Hydrogen’. While the bulk of the remainder which is mostly 2H could now be referred to as being depleted Hydrogen – but we already have ‘depleted Hydrogen’ (the first process where 2H and 3H was removed) so it is specifically referred to as ‘depleted 2H’. This would be 2H with very little tritium in it (if any). This makes ‘depleted 2H’ a very specific name for specific product. Depleted Deuterium can only happen because Hydrogen has three isotopes of interest, and so there is two steps instead of one. There would be no Depleted Tritium as there is nothing else to take out

Well first you previously mentioned stable vs unstable as being relevant to depleting stuff (a previous post), that's not relevant. Second is my point that when calling things "depleted" the isotope that is depleted has to be assumed/considered to be implied.

I still disagree with you when you get to "depleted 2H". This again goes back to my point about the name for an element which encompasses all isotopes, and the name for an isotope, which is specific for that isotope. "Depleted hydrogen" could mean something as long as there is a consensus as to which isotope is being depleted (normally due to widespread use/an important use for, such as with U235 and U238 for weapons). Deuterium only ever refers to 2H, not a mixture of isotopes, depleted deuterium is meaningless. The closest to the meaning you seem to want to convey is simply purified deuterium.

 

 

 

[p1t1o]

I think it is possible that the "depleted" prefix to "depleted uranium" is a one-off and is not necessarily applicable to anything else.

Uranium is in wide use and is mostly related to its fissile nature, DP however has applications which use its density, and can only be used if its fissile nature is "depleted".

THere are exceptionally few contexts where this would apply to any other substance. Im sure there are some examples, but Id wager there are far more appropritate words/terms to use already, shoehorning in the "depleted [x]" format just seems unnecessary "sci-fi" jargon.

**

I recall a vaguely related memory of a sci-fi computer game ("Xenocracy" IIRC) which had a low yield nuclear missile called a "tamped nuclear warhead". First it was incorrect use of the word "tamped", the tamping does not reduce the yield, actually the exact opposite. And ALL nuclear warhead must be tamped, or be impractically huge with much reduced efficiency, its kind of an important part of the mechanism.

[kerbiloid]

Maybe they mean "deuterium depleted"? I.e. a deuterium-poor thing.

Spoiler

 

 

Edited January 31, 2019 by kerbiloid

[KerikBalm]

3 hours ago, p1t1o said:

I think it is possible that the "depleted" prefix to "depleted uranium" is a one-off and is not necessarily applicable to anything else.

Well depleted is a word of the english language, with a known meaning... although as a prefixit is weird. Its like attaching an emty prefix to something.

A depleted tank is basically the same as an empty tank... the problem comes when talking of a substance. Depleted Uranium = empty uranium? here there is more to it that must be implied or assumed due to common (at least within a technical field.. but then it becomes field specific jargon) background knowledge. That assumption is that its depleted of isotope U235. Without that implication/assumption, it doesn't make any sense.

So to apply it to another substance with no hint of what is implied or assumed (such as previous references in the fictional universe), then its just BS technobabble. If the references are there to imply what is missing, then its only technobabble if the references themselves are non-sensical.

3 hours ago, kerbiloid said:

Maybe they mean "deuterium depleted"? I.e. a deuterium-poor thing.

That is grammatically correct (well with a noun following it), and has a clear meaning. I have no problem with the phrase deuterium-depleted as an adjective for a substance, such as water.

In fact, this is just specifying what is implied or assumed in the uranium case. In the uranium case, its really U235-depleted Uranium, shortened to depleted uranium, with the isotope left unspecified/implicit.

With deuterium-depleted water, its perfectly analogous, except they make the isotope explicit rather than assuming its implicit to the listener/reader.

But depleted deuterium... that's BS

[p1t1o]

29 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

Well depleted is a word of the english language

Exactly. In the english language, rules dont have to make sense

"Depleted tank" has seperate meaning to "Depleted [element]" because:

[image obtained by searching "eccentric british"]

[magnemoe]

4 hours ago, p1t1o said:

I think it is possible that the "depleted" prefix to "depleted uranium" is a one-off and is not necessarily applicable to anything else.

Uranium is in wide use and is mostly related to its fissile nature, DP however has applications which use its density, and can only be used if its fissile nature is "depleted".

THere are exceptionally few contexts where this would apply to any other substance. Im sure there are some examples, but Id wager there are far more appropritate words/terms to use already, shoehorning in the "depleted [x]" format just seems unnecessary "sci-fi" jargon.

**

I recall a vaguely related memory of a sci-fi computer game ("Xenocracy" IIRC) which had a low yield nuclear missile called a "tamped nuclear warhead". First it was incorrect use of the word "tamped", the tamping does not reduce the yield, actually the exact opposite. And ALL nuclear warhead must be tamped, or be impractically huge with much reduced efficiency, its kind of an important part of the mechanism.

Depleted uranium is an thing, you can have other uses. deuterium depleted water makes sense as water byproduct after producing heavy water. It however an waste product, same as DU until they found it had special properties for armor penetration.  You could use standard uranium but DU is way cheaper as an waste product and is less radioactive than metallic uranium, the U235 extraction should also remove more highly radioactive breakdown elements. its still an poisonous heavy metal. 
Light water has the benefit of being as dangerous as normal water. You could bottle it and sell it as diet water however :)

Make an question around heavy water production
I assume they are extracting deuterium from hydrogen gas as an molecule with one deuterium atom would be 50% heavier and hydrogen is used in lots of chemical processes. 
Now ionize the gas and go for the de2 molecules burn with oxygen for heavy water. 
Sounds way easier than hunting for water 1 proton heavier? 
 

[StrandedonEarth]

Hmmm, depleted stuff.... Depleted rum, where all the alcohol has evaporated? That’s probably all you’re  left with if you let a flaming cocktail burn too long...

[DAL59]

This was an actual, published article:

[DDE]

17 hours ago, DAL59 said:

This was an actual, published article:

Stupid Iranians and their precious centrifuges!

That's one production line, BTW.

No Factorio fans were harmed in the production of this picture.

[kerbiloid]

Spoiler

58 minutes ago, DDE said:

And now compare this technohorror to the plant which we can use for that in KSP.  Kerbal science rules!

 

[Gargamel]

20 hours ago, DAL59 said:

This was an actual, published article:

In the weekly world news...  Which aside from weekly, the rest of the name is a misnomer. 

[StrandedonEarth]

5 minutes ago, Gargamel said:

In the weekly world news...  Which aside from weekly, the rest of the name is a misnomer. 

The one I really had to laugh at was a front-page headline claiming a human skeleton was found on the moon. This was long ago, probably in the 80's (long before photoshop had even been dreamed of), and the hatchmarks where the skeleton picture was literally cut and pasted into a munscape moonscape was so obvious a blind person would notice it.

[Gargamel]

Before this thread devolves into a place we don't want it to go, remember guys we have rules against posting content involving conspiracy theories and such.  Given the topic of the thread though, just be smart about what you post. 

[KerikBalm]

Well "conspiracies theories" are a category of fiction in a way... I would think as long as the fiction isn't argued as fact on these forums, I would hope that it would be fine.

I would also think conspiracies theories that turned out to be true, and are now known and accepted as true (WW2 Gleiwitz incident for example). I would guess that what is prohibited is arguing against established fact with whacky conspiracy theories.

We should still be able to poke fun in the scientific plausibility of a human skeleton on the moon (a mummy would be one thing, like if you had a work of fiction where someone is abandoned/murdered on the moon... but why would the flesh decay and leave just the bones?), or the idea of a steampunk A-bomb without enriched Uranium - where would they even get uranium...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranium_mining#History

Quote

Until World War II uranium was mined primarily for its radium content; some carnotite deposits were mined primarily for the vanadium content. Sources for radium, contained in the uranium ore, were sought for use as luminous paint for watch dials and other instruments, as well as for health-related applications, some of which in retrospect were certainly harmful. The byproduct uranium was used mostly as a yellow pigment.

In the United States, the first radium/uranium ore was discovered in 1871 in gold mines near Central City, Colorado. This district produced about 50 tons of high grade ore between 1871 and 1895. However, most American uranium ore before World War II came from vanadium deposits on the Colorado Plateau of Utah and Colorado.

So no place to get Uranium in the US until after the civil war. Radium itself wasn't even discovered until 1898. Radioactivity hadn't been discovered until 1896.

There was no theoretical basis for an A-bomb in 1860-1865. Not even for the manufacture of a "dirty bomb" (even if they knew about radioactivity over 30 years earlier, they wouldn't know of its health effects).

There's simply no way this lines up with the facts. This fictional Confederate A-bomb is sort of a historical-fiction science-fiction hybrid.

Maybe we need a thread for bad historical fiction?

[DDE]

So, Russian authorities re-open investigation into the Duatlov Pass incident.

The chief presecutir claims that the investgiation has considered more versions of events than the Internet.

https://www.rbc.ru/society/04/02/2019/5c5800719a7947fb95af8d32

He was then reportedly sighted driving this:

Spoiler

 

30 minutes ago, KerikBalm said:

Well "conspiracies theories" are a category of fiction in a way... I would think as long as the fiction isn't argued as fact on these forums, I would hope that it would be fine.

I would also think conspiracies theories that turned out to be true, and are now known and accepted as true (WW2 Gleiwitz incident for example). I would guess that what is prohibited is arguing against established fact with whacky conspiracy theories.

A meta conspiracy theory that is semi-confirmed is that the CIA distributed a circular among their numerous press contacts asking them to paint any alternative versions of the JFK assassination as “wild conspiracy theories”. Which is why we today use the same term for alien rectal probing, stories about pedophile rings in pizza parlors, and allegations of political machinations that wouldn’t be surprising in a society other than a “modern” and “enlightened” one.

And that is all I recommend saying on the topic. Do not attempt to investigate pizza parlours, shotgun in hand, and do not foward me FBI handbooks that seem to have been written at the tail end of the Satanic Panic, even though I’m a Criminal Minds fan.

[kerbiloid]

3 hours ago, KerikBalm said:

a human skeleton on the moon (a mummy would be one thing, like if you had a work of fiction where someone is abandoned/murdered on the moon... but why would the flesh decay and leave just the bones?),

Temperature variation from -100 to +100, UV splitting moleculas.

They presume that the Apollo flag is now white due to the color decay.

Say, 70 kg of body contains 2/3 ~= 45 kg of water. (Let's partially evaporate, partially split with UV), so 70-45 = 25 kg of mummy.

According to wiki, a dry skeleton weights ~5..6 kg.

So, there is ~20 kg of organics to loose under dT and UV.

[DAL59]

On 2/15/2018 at 5:05 AM, Brikoleur said:

It's going for Earth!" about Eros when it's accelerating at 15 g and more in random directions, I mean 15 g is about 150 m/s^2 and we all know what even a 1 m/s midcourse adjustment burn does to your trajectory

If your in a hohmann transfer, a small change makes a large trajectory change, but if Eros is already moving towards the Earth at high speeds, and the acceleration changes rapidly in direction, then it would still be possible to predict the trajectory.  

[StrandedonEarth]

Okay, so I have today off and I'm watching T2: Judgement Day. I just finished watching the first chase scene. I'll ignore the fact that when the T-1000 drove a Peterbilt tow truck off the overpass into the spillway I could clearly see the front suspension was destroyed (some classic Dukes of Hazzard magic there). But then a few minutes later it crashed and exploded. I'm pretty sure spilling diesel fuel can't be ignited by a 12V or 24V spark. I'm even more sure it wouldn't explode like that, in those conditions. But hey, just more Hollywood magic at work. Without the explosion they couldn't have put in the cool liquid-metal-man CGI effect, which was so cutting edge at the time.

[Gargamel]

9 hours ago, StrandedonEarth said:

I'm pretty sure spilling diesel fuel can't be ignited by a 12V or 24V spark. I'm even more sure it wouldn't explode like that, in those conditions

It takes a few seconds of under direct the flame of a blow torch for diesel to ignite.   This is a common practice in fire fighter training for learning how to put out large liquid fires.    Fill a small pool half full of water, dump 50 gallons or so of diesel in it, let it settle, hold a blow torch to it, run.   And yeah, diesel doesn't really explode.