[1.5.0 <-> 1.8.1] Kerbalism v3.2

[Sir Mortimer]

On 7/6/2019 at 4:33 AM, Guedez said:

I was getting drained out of all science before unlocking the solar panels. Since I kickstarted myself them, it's been pretty normal now.

 

Also, is it kerbalism that is stopping my warp every single time I lose or get signal again? This thing is really bothering me and I can't figure out how to stop that form happening

OK, that's it, I'm changing the defaults for all notifications (except supplies, those would be deadly) to off now.

Until then, see 

 

On 7/5/2019 at 6:33 AM, Nnimrod said:

Ok, another question. I looked at the docs and it seems that the placement of the van allen belts is dependent on body radius, the belts at least should be compatible with JNSQ, if not the rest of the mod. How do you see the belts or know where they are? In the OP they are shown graphically, but not in my game.

Map view, press B to get that window where you can turn on the radiation field display.

[lordcirth]

51 minutes ago, Sir Mortimer said:

OK, that's it, I'm changing the defaults for all notifications (except supplies, those would be deadly) to off now.

But running out of EC is also deadly?

[mindstalker]

The FLOAT experiment isn't working when its running in the background. If I go to Tracking Station or controlling another vesicle, let a bunch of days pass then come back to my FLOAT experiment, no time has passed :(.

Running KSP 1.7.2.

FLOAT time is passing when I'm actively focused on the vesicle.

 

Edit: I take that back, it is passing, just 1/6th the rate or so.

Edited July 7, 2019 by mindstalker

[Tamfanu]

On 7/4/2019 at 4:12 AM, physicsnerd said:

Was just running some tests, and for some reason something in the config file for near future is causing the near future nuclear reactors to not work. Reactors work w/ Kerbalism if I remove the config file.

I've got the same problem, even with prior versions of Kerbalism until 2.0.0 (wich is not working in KSP 1.7.2). The Near Future GUI doesn't show up in the toolbar and the reactors dont work. As soon as Kerbalism is de-installed everything works fine. Running KSP 1.7.2 including "making history" and "breaking grund". In KSP 1.5.1 it worked well together. Does someone has a solution?

Beside that i appreciate the magnificent work done for this great mod.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Tamfanu
done some more testing with older versions

[ecaheti]

On 6/23/2019 at 7:55 PM, mindstalker said:

Noticed that in the new DLC I can't complete "pickup mun stone" contract with Kerbalism. It converts the min stone into data and doesn't register its return to kerbin.

I've got the same issue. Any hint (other than "don't take those contracts") ?

 

Edited July 8, 2019 by ecaheti

[mindstalker]

On 7/8/2019 at 6:51 AM, ecaheti said:

I've got the same issue. Any hint (other than "don't take those contracts") ?

 

Wait for a Kerbalism released for 1.7.2 or .3 .

Not sure if its storing it as a sample or as science. Its possible that if you turn off your antenna and don't allow it to transmit the stone, you might be able to bring it back?? I don't know.

[Cheesecake]

And again: can I add some other science-mods to work with kerbalism? And how can I add them in an easy way. I looked into mod-patches of kerbalism but there are replacement with kerbalism-experiments and I don`t know how this works.

[Sir Mortimer]

18 hours ago, Cheesecake said:

And again: can I add some other science-mods to work with kerbalism? And how can I add them in an easy way. I looked into mod-patches of kerbalism but there are replacement with kerbalism-experiments and I don`t know how this works.

Kerbalism science already has these support configs. The files are in GameData/KerbalismConfig/System/ScienceRework/ModSupport.

CommunityTechTre, ProbesBeforeCrew, SSPX, SoundingRockets, UniversalStorage2, DMagicOrbitalScience, NearFutureTech, RestockPlus, SampleReturnCapsule, StationScience

If you would like to integrate another mod into kerbalism, I suggest you copy StationScience to a new file and start working on that. Please try to follow the configuration principle outlined in those files.

Near the top of the file, define the desired behaviour of the individual experiments like this:

@KERBALISM_EXPERIMENT_VALUES:NEEDS[YourMod,FeatureScience]
{
        YourMod
        {
                yourExperiment
                {
                        ECCost = 3 // ec per second
                        size = 0.5 // size in Mb
                        value = 40 // science value
                        duration = 3888000 // duration in seconds, this is 180 days
                        requirements = Body:Kerbin,Microgravity // additional requirements, see docs
                }
                yourReturnSample
                {
                        ECCost = 3 // ec per second
                        size = 0.5 // size in slots
                        value = 40 // science value
                        duration = 3888000 // duration in seconds, this is 180 days
                        requirements = Body:Kerbin,Microgravity // additional requirements, see docs
                        SampleMass = 4 // mass in Kg
                }
        }
}

The KERBALISM_EXPERIMENT_VALUES is only there to do exactly this: hold values that define science value, ec costs etc. for the individual experiments. They are not used by the Kerbalism mod at runtime, it's just helping with configuration to keep everything nicely in one place. If you don't do this you'll end up pulling your hair because it gets too confusing. Been there, done that. Also, this makes it very easy to tweak any number (science points, duration, EC usage etc.) at a later time without having to look through the entire file.

In the next step, those values need to be applied in two different places, with two slightly different semantics (which is what can make this so confusing): first, it needs to be applied to the EXPERIMENT_DEFINITION (that's what defines the experiment itself to KSP), and it needs to be applied to the parts the experiments run on. Kerbalism replaces the stock ModuleScienceExperiment part modules with its own.

// ============================================================================
// Replace existing experiments with our own
// ============================================================================
@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE:HAS[#experimentID[yourExperimentID]]]:NEEDS[YourMod,FeatureScience]
{
        !MODULE:HAS[#experimentID[yourExperimentID]]  {}
        MODULE
        {
                name = Experiment
                experiment_id = yourExperimentID
                ec_rate = #$@KERBALISM_EXPERIMENT_VALUES/yourMod/yourExperiment/ECCost$
                requires = #$@KERBALISM_EXPERIMENT_VALUES/yourMod/yourExperiment/requirements$
                data_rate = #$@KERBALISM_EXPERIMENT_VALUES/yourMod/yourExperiment/size$
                @data_rate /= #$@KERBALISM_EXPERIMENT_VALUES/yourMod/yourExperiment/duration$
        }
}

@PART[*]:HAS[@MODULE:HAS[#experimentID[yourReturnSampleID]]]:NEEDS[YourMod,FeatureScience]
{
        !MODULE:HAS[#experimentID[yourReturnSampleID]]  {}
        MODULE
        {
                name = Experiment
                experiment_id = yourReturnSampleID
                ec_rate = #$@KERBALISM_EXPERIMENT_VALUES/yourMod/yourReturnSample/ECCost$
                requires = #$@KERBALISM_EXPERIMENT_VALUES/yourMod/yourReturnSample/requirements$
                data_rate = #$@KERBALISM_EXPERIMENT_VALUES/yourMod/yourReturnSample/size$
                @data_rate /= #$@KERBALISM_EXPERIMENT_VALUES/yourMod/yourReturnSample/duration$
                sample_mass = #$@KERBALISM_EXPERIMENT_VALUES/yourMod/yourReturnSample/SampleMass$
                sample_reservoir = #$sample_mass$
        }
}

@EXPERIMENT_DEFINITION:HAS[#id[yourExperimentID]]:NEEDS[YourMod,FeatureScience]
{
        @baseValue = #$@KERBALISM_EXPERIMENT_VALUES/yourMod/yourExperiment/value$
        @dataScale = #$@KERBALISM_EXPERIMENT_VALUES/yourMod/yourExperiment/size$
        @dataScale /= #$baseValue$
}

@EXPERIMENT_DEFINITION:HAS[#id[yourReturnSample]]:NEEDS[YourMod,FeatureScience]
{
        @baseValue = #$@KERBALISM_EXPERIMENT_VALUES/yourMod/yourExperiment/value$
        @dataScale = #$@KERBALISM_EXPERIMENT_VALUES/yourMod/yourExperiment/size$
        @dataScale /= #$baseValue$
}

That should get you going real soon.

Once you're done with the mod, please open a pull request on Kerbalisms GitHub page. 

 

[russ0133]

I'm still at the start of my career, but does the science transmission rate/generation increase with new parts? It's... hard... to get atmospheric science done because some experiments take a lot of time - how am I supposed to stay in atmosphere for the whole time so I can finish the experiment? Also the antenna transmission rate is awful slow sometimes.

Later parts add Hard Drive space too? The initial pod 512kb is too little

[lordcirth]

2 minutes ago, russ0133 said:

I'm still at the start of my career, but does the science transmission rate/generation increase with new parts? It's... hard... to get atmospheric science done because some experiments take a lot of time - how am I supposed to stay in atmosphere for the whole time so I can finish the experiment? Also the antenna transmission rate is awful slow sometimes.

Later parts add Hard Drive space too? The initial pod 512kb is too little

For atmosphere, make a basic plane and let it fly level for a while. Or use a chute tuned to open at the max of 5km. Or ignore them and go for space.

[Krymson Skorpyon]

Sorry if this is a repeat - I couldn't find it by searching.

There is a contract that says "Put a Kerbal in orbit for 30 days".  Does the entire 30 days have to be in orbit around Kerbin, or can I fulfil that contract by flying by Mun, maybe Minmus, and out of the Kerbin SOI, to do science stuff as long as the overall mission is over 30 days long?

I know I can do a save game and test it, but I thought I'd ask here, first.

[dskzz]

Hiya, great mod thanks for spending so much time supporting it over the years! 

And here's yet another problem/question for your masterful input!  Actually I have a couple things...

 

IS there a way to disable the internal antennas installed in command pods?  Most specifically, when I went and tried to use the FASA Mercury pod, on the launchpad it would drain power down to zero pretty much immediately.  It turned out that the drain was from the open internal antenna.  I had a similar problem on other modules; I think  I wound up turning the idle drain to zero to fix it, which seemed to fix regular pods, but I still can't use the Mercury pod.  And also I'd like to say save up my data to transmit at a certain time, waiting for capacitors to charge, etc.  But I get the continual transmission because it seems those internal antennas never turn off.  Also it'll spam the [0.0 Science Transmission].  

 

EVA Report: No power.  So I put my guy into EVA and I can't do the EVA report because my guys have no power apparently.  I tried sticking a battery in his inventory, nothing.  Am I missing something?  I tried a fresh install (it was my kerbalism/FASA test so it wasnt 100% clean)  and got the same issue.

 

Science question -  Is there a way I can disable the new science collection (just conflicts with too many mods!  I'll wait a couple months more maybe or maybe I'll try my had a modding to bring some of those up in) but keep those super cool experiments like the unmanned probe experiments?  

 

Edited:  One more!  Is zzzKerbalism still a thing? I dont see it in my gameData.  I installed by hand.  

Thanks again guys and keep up the good work!

 

Another edit: This is using CommNet and Constellation

Edited July 15, 2019 by dskzz
Last minute revisions!

[Ryan_Coates]

@N70 show take in account for sub orbital data that is harder to get. 

[Drew Kerman]

This is an image created using Mission Architect based on actual flight data (here for day side, here for night side - rad readings at far right of sheet). You can read more about the details in the flight analysis just published today for the night side mission that completed this picture (day side was flown back in January). KSA has been slowly discovering the belts since late 2017, you can start here with this report and there are links that will take you back to previous reports that lay out how the Agency flew missions to map things out. It wasn't all space flights either, as aircraft science missions to the poles discovered hazardous radiation we suspect is linked to the outer belt. Hopefully an orbital mission in 2020 via the Ascension Mk2 will let us finally get a full 3D picture of things!

(The above is mostly role-play - obviously I know about the Tracking Station visualization)

[Shiolle]

Hi, and thank you for the great mod.

I would like to use some bodies from the World Beyond mod. Of course, planets there don't have radiation profiles, and I would like to create a few. This is a huge mod, and I'm only using two small systems in it (it's fairly modular). I'm not sure I have the patience to cover the whole mod. I have read the section of the documentation about modding Kerbalism, but I still have some questions.

1. I'm not sure how to approach multiple stars orbiting each other. I've seen in OPM config inside Kerbalism, it extended Kerbol's heliopause. Do I need for the heliopause of each star encompass its SOI? Will it work?
2. All exoplanets show 0 solar flux. I guess that is because the stars they are orbiting are considered planets by Kerbalism (they have surface temperature and other values that Sun doesn't have). How do I make Kerbalism recognize them as light and radiation sources?
3. What radiation model do you suggest for a pulsar? It must have a hell of a radiation flux.
4. Also, how do I select values for Van Allen belt strength for planets? I was going to base them on RSS data and their descriptions, but I'm not sure I understand how radiation pause parameter works.

Edited July 16, 2019 by Shiolle

[Sir Mortimer]

23 hours ago, Shiolle said:

Hi, and thank you for the great mod.

I would like to use some bodies from the World Beyond mod. Of course, planets there don't have radiation profiles, and I would like to create a few. This is a huge mod, and I'm only using two small systems in it (it's fairly modular). I'm not sure I have the patience to cover the whole mod. I have read the section of the documentation about modding Kerbalism, but I still have some questions.

1. I'm not sure how to approach multiple stars orbiting each other. I've seen in OPM config inside Kerbalism, it extended Kerbol's heliopause. Do I need for the heliopause of each star encompass its SOI? Will it work?
2. All exoplanets show 0 solar flux. I guess that is because the stars they are orbiting are considered planets by Kerbalism (they have surface temperature and other values that Sun doesn't have). How do I make Kerbalism recognize them as light and radiation sources?
3. What radiation model do you suggest for a pulsar? It must have a hell of a radiation flux.
4. Also, how do I select values for Van Allen belt strength for planets? I was going to base them on RSS data and their descriptions, but I'm not sure I understand how radiation pause parameter works.

1. The heliopause doesn't technically need to encompass it's SOI, but I'd suggest doing so because outside of that heliopause, you have a relatively strong background radiation. Radiation levels in the heliopause are effectively less than outside. While you're orbiting that star, I suppose you would expect to be within it's heliopause (which is huuuuge).

2. Currently, Kerbalism expects the sun at body index 0 and will calculate the light flow from that body. In beyond home, I think, there is no sun at index 0 - and that's why Kerbalism doesn't see any solar flux. This will also affect your solar panels in background simulations.

3. For a Pular, I'd personally do something like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQPQKub2yk4 (Note that this doesn't work yet in the released version of Kerbalism. If you grab the binaries from the github repository, you'll be able to set geomagnetic_pole_lat and geomagnetic_pole_lon (to tilt the field away from the rotation axis) and geomagnetic_offset (to offset the belts from the center of the body).

4. Radiation levels for anywhere but earth are notoriously hard to come by.

 

EDIT: I looked at a very preliminary possibility to support Kopernicus and multi-star systems. If you're up to it, use the binaries from this branch and let me know if they work https://github.com/Kerbalism/Kerbalism/tree/kopernicus

Edited July 17, 2019 by Sir Mortimer

[Clinton]

Sorry if I've missed this earlier, but where can I find out what experiments I've successfully obtained in the new Kerbalism Science System? (which seems great btw)

I used to use XScience but I don't think it's compatable with this Kerbalism's new science system because it's showing no experiments. 

[Sir Mortimer]

54 minutes ago, Clinton said:

Sorry if I've missed this earlier, but where can I find out what experiments I've successfully obtained in the new Kerbalism Science System? (which seems great btw)

I used to use XScience but I don't think it's compatable with this Kerbalism's new science system because it's showing no experiments. 

Currently the only way to check that is in R&D.

[infinite_monkey]

Trying a new career with Kerbalism for the first time. And in order to make it even more realistic, I also use PBC. Jeez, that is tough...

Is there a way to know what science a probe could do, and how much of it has been done already? Something like x-Science or ScienceAlert?

It would also be nice if the original science messages could be preserved somehow. It's a bit boring to read the same few messages over and over again

[baldamundo]

3 hours ago, Sir Mortimer said:

Currently the only way to check that is in R&D.

Would be really, really handy if Kerbalism could be made compatible with Science! [x] or if its planner could incorporate similar functionality

[Shiolle]

@Sir Mortimer Thank you for your reply. I've created the first iteration of configs for one of the smaller solar systems in that pack based on values for similar stock planets and the description of the bodies in the pack. However, the major issue aren't even the values, but the fact that all magnetopauses are oriented towards Kerbol and not their host star (see the screenshot below), which is not even coplanar with the bodies in the new system. I will try to install Extrasolar to see if this issue is somehow resolved there, and if it is, how.

Spoiler

While this is ongoing, I found out that some of the engines in Kerbal Atomic are missing a radiation source and added them using extrapolation of existing engines based on their power. I will share it a bit later.

[Clinton]

12 hours ago, Sir Mortimer said:

Currently the only way to check that is in R&D.

Cheers that works well enough for my purposes thanks!

[Sir Mortimer]

20 hours ago, baldamundo said:

Would be really, really handy if Kerbalism could be made compatible with Science! [x] or if its planner could incorporate similar functionality

Yes, it would. It's an itch that's bugging me personally, too, so chances are high that there will be something to help you out with that.

Personally I'd like to see 2 things: 1. if a probe did generate any science lately (or if it should be deorbitet before it is too late to do so) 2. how much of the science in the current situation is left to be done

19 hours ago, Shiolle said:

@Sir Mortimer Thank you for your reply. I've created the first iteration of configs for one of the smaller solar systems in that pack based on values for similar stock planets and the description of the bodies in the pack. However, the major issue aren't even the values, but the fact that all magnetopauses are oriented towards Kerbol and not their host star (see the screenshot below), which is not even coplanar with the bodies in the new system. I will try to install Extrasolar to see if this issue is somehow resolved there, and if it is, how.

  Hide contents

While this is ongoing, I found out that some of the engines in Kerbal Atomic are missing a radiation source and added them using extrapolation of existing engines based on their power. I will share it a bit later.

Thanks for the radiation thing, btw

Your magnetic fields are easily fixed by a little (or entirely unknown) field that can be set in the radiation body:
 

RadiationBody {
  name = Styx
  radiation_model = metallic
  radiation_pause = -0.001
  reference = 12 // index of the reference body, default = 0
}

You need to set reference, which is the FlightGlobals index for the body to which the radiation field is oriented. It defaults to 0, which makes sense for most solar systems because that's where the sun is.

Let me know if it works, also let me know if you've had any success with the Kopernicus branch.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Sir Mortimer

[Rauko]

13 hours ago, Sir Mortimer said:

Yes, it would. It's an itch that's bugging me personally, too, so chances are high that there will be something to help you out with that.

Personally I'd like to see 2 things: 1. if a probe did generate any science lately (or if it should be deorbitet before it is too late to do so) 2. how much of the science in the current situation is left to be done

 

Thankyou @Sir Mortimer, great news hearing you want to address this. 

For me, the most important thing would be to see (in VAB) which remaining science would my probe do in any known environment (like second button in [X]Science), allowing us to filter (in a fashion way or just like science, by a written literal) by situation/biome/body.

That is the most important thing while designing a probe. 

Can't cience left in current situation be seen in auto tab now? When experiments are running you see time remaining.

A far less important but nice thing to see would be science already transmited. (To see how useful your probe was).

[infinite_monkey]

5 minutes ago, Rauko said:

A far less important but nice thing to see would be science already transmited. (To see how useful your probe was).

You can see that in the log, although that is cluttered with other messages as well.