Inflatable Airlock Doesn't Work With Other Same-Size Docking Ports

[Capt. Hunt]

As anyone who's read my first post in this thread can see, I'm definitely in the D category.  Until the OP said so, I had no idea it functioned as a docking port.  Then again I had yet to use the part in game at all, and was solely basing my expectations on the real life Voskhod Airlock.  I suspect that some players may still think that airlocks and docking ports are the same thing, because of various Sci-fi movies and TV shows. 

4 hours ago, Steven Mading said:

That's not a minor problem.  It's major.  Because that's the *only* purpose the part has is to be a docking port, and when you don't realize it's a Jr sized port, the conclusion the player comes away with is *not* "I guess I got the size wrong".  The conclusion the player comes away with is "I guess it's not a docking port after all.  I thought it was but it's not acting like it so I guess it isn't.".  You get no feedback that tells you it's a docking port when you try connecting to the wrong size.  It acts the same as it would act if it wasn't a docking port at all, so the player has no feedback to realize the problem.

 

I still think the best solution is to change the description as I suggested, it doesn't require an art change or any change in functionality, and it's inline with the purpose of the part's real life equivalent.

Like @Snark, I can come up with a whole bunch of alternate uses for this part that don't involve the docking node.

[Dunbaratu]

4 hours ago, Snark said:

It does, however, serve the other functionality of an airlock, in that it is, in fact, a hatch.  It provides a way to get in and out of the ship.  It's also crewable.

It attached to something that is already a hatch in the first place.  Before attaching the part, I have a hatch that leads outside that a kerbal can hold onto the ladder of but you can't really fly the ship while a kerbal is hanging on.  After attaching the part, that hatch is obstructed by... a longer hatch that a kerbal can hold onto by being inside of, but you still can't really do anything while they're in there because everything is off-center making the craft uncontrollable.

Without the docking port functionality, all it would add is length to the same functionality that was already there.

Quote

C:  I thought it was 1.25m, it didn't work, and then I just figured it wasn't a docking port and gave up.

The game provides no difference at all in feedback between "part won't dock because it's the wrong size" and "part won't dock because it's not a docking port".

Given that it didn't *say* it was a docking port (calling itself an "airlock"), it's a reasonable conclusion to draw that it's not one when it doesn't behave like one.

[LoSBoL]

6 hours ago, Snark said:

[SNIP]

Might be interesting to do a forum poll, something like this:

The first time you used the "inflatable airlock" part as a docking port, what was your experience?

• A:  I realized it was junior-sized right off the bat and had no trouble.
• B:  I thought it was 1.25m and it wouldn't dock, but then I quickly figured out the problem.
• C:  I thought it was 1.25m, it didn't work, and then I just figured it wasn't a docking port and gave up.
• D:  It never occurred to me in the first place that this is usable as a docking port.

My answer to such a poll would be B.  Sounds like you're a C.  I wouldn't be surprised if there are a fair number of D's out there.  I'm guessing that A will be a very small minority.  But it might be interesting to see what the numbers actually look like.

• E: I read the Weekly where the airlock was first introduced, where @RoverDude explained everything I needed to know.
• F: Somebody already posted their experiences on the forum before I got to use the part.

When it comes to KSP, it usually ends up with F for me. but in this case my memory didn't fail ending up in E. 

[Snark]

9 hours ago, Steven Mading said:

It attached to something that is already a hatch in the first place.  Before attaching the part, I have a hatch that leads outside that a kerbal can hold onto the ladder of but you can't really fly the ship while a kerbal is hanging on.  After attaching the part, that hatch is obstructed by... a longer hatch that a kerbal can hold onto by being inside of, but you still can't really do anything while they're in there because everything is off-center making the craft uncontrollable.

I'm confused.  You're... putting the part on top of a hatch?  That's literally the one place on a spacecraft where you wouldn't want to put it.  Because, 1. it obstructs the hatch, and 2. there's already a hatch there.

I mean, sure, if you place the part on literally the one part of a ship where it's not useful and actively gets in the way, and also deliberately place it without symmetry so that it throws off your CoM... of course it wouldn't be useful.  So why would one do that?

The whole point of the part is that you place it elsewhere, in the kinds of places that you would put a docking port.  Gives several benefits:

• A hatch, in a place that your ship would otherwise not have a hatch
• A docking port, conveniently sticking out far from the body of the ship, making it easier to dock to
• A crewable part, which can hold an extra kerbal

...Perhaps I'm misunderstanding how/why you're using the part, could you explain?  (Just want to make sure we're not talking at cross purposes here.)

9 hours ago, Steven Mading said:

The game provides no difference at all in feedback between "part won't dock because it's the wrong size" and "part won't dock because it's not a docking port".

Agreed, that's an issue-- it's always been that way.  Would be nice if the game had some sort of "you're doing it wrong" feedback for situations like that.

Would also be nice if the UI for docking ports explicitly showed the docking port size, so that it would be easier to judge compatibility.

9 hours ago, Steven Mading said:

Given that it didn't *say* it was a docking port

I could see how the name could be somewhat misleading, for some folks, I guess.  Personally, it seemed clear enough to me, because

• the description says dock, and
• the "part capability" tab says docking node, and
• the part is located in the "Coupling" tab which is where docking ports live, and
• the name "airlock" doesn't mislead me because airlocks aren't a thing in KSP, and
• not all of the stock docking ports have "docking port" in their name anyway,

...so this didn't cause me a problem.  I immediately spotted that it was a docking port.

The thing that I didn't realize at first was that it was a hatch, and also that it could contain a kerbal, because it doesn't say "crew capacity: 1" in the editor tab (because it has no crew capacity when retracted).  Since there's nothing in the editor UI that shows that it has those capabilities, I didn't notice them until I was actually using it in flight, and when I right-clicked on the part I could see the extra options available.  That's when the other shoe dropped, for me.

[LoSBoL]

3 hours ago, Snark said:

[SNIP]

 

Hmmmm, let me do a correction on my last post, I didn't know everything I needed to know 

Your mod brought up something interesting, the airlock also doubles as a science container being able to pull science, that's sweet!  It looks like its only able to do so tru an actiongroup and not in the in game menu.

 

 

 

[Snark]

4 hours ago, LoSBoL said:

Your mod brought up something interesting, the airlock also doubles as a science container being able to pull science, that's sweet! 

Whoops.  Please ignore that, I'm still tinkering with some config on my KSP install for working with DefaultActionGroups.  That bit of text is there in error-- I don't think the part can actually do that, and the fact that the text has been added is because the config's not properly tuned yet. 

[Dunbaratu]

15 hours ago, Snark said:

I mean, sure, if you place the part on literally the one part of a ship where it's not useful and actively gets in the way, and also deliberately place it without symmetry so that it throws off your CoM... of course it wouldn't be useful.  So why would one do that?

 It didn't even occur to me that anything else was allowed because I fixated on the word adapter in the description.  Calling it an adapter makes it sound like it modifies a hatch, not makes a new one from scratch.

Yes, if making a new hole in the side of the ship is what it does, then it has a purpose, but that purpose is not being an adapter and the description isn't quite right.

 

Edited April 15, 2018 by Steven Mading

[Zeiss Ikon]

On 4/13/2018 at 8:56 PM, Snark said:

The first time you used the "inflatable airlock" part as a docking port, what was your experience?

• A:  I realized it was junior-sized right off the bat and had no trouble.
• B:  I thought it was 1.25m and it wouldn't dock, but then I quickly figured out the problem.
• C:  I thought it was 1.25m, it didn't work, and then I just figured it wasn't a docking port and gave up.
• D:  It never occurred to me in the first place that this is usable as a docking port.

I still haven't used the thing in game, but I've played with it in VAB to see the extend/retract appearances.  Like some others, I read the description ("Docking node" "attraction range") and could see it was intended as a docking part, plus, to me, it looked a lot more likely (based on its location in the tech tree) to be a Junior size docking part than a full size.  I will admit, hjowever, that I'd seen discussion of the part on the forums before purchasing the DLC.

I could see immediate utility in this part, independent of any attempts at reconstructing Voskhod or similar.  If I have a vessel that needs a lot of other stuff radially attached to a crewed part, but also needs a radial docking port on the crewed part, I can likely squeeze an inflatable airlock in between.  It's flat(ish) to the surface of the part when retracted, so it won't cause launch drift or pinwheeling in orbit, but it extends far enough to clear at least 1.25m and 1.875m parts, possibly even 2.5m size (tanks, etc.).

[LoSBoL]

On ‎15‎-‎4‎-‎2018 at 12:52 AM, Snark said:

Whoops.  Please ignore that, I'm still tinkering with some config on my KSP install for working with DefaultActionGroups.  That bit of text is there in error-- I don't think the part can actually do that, and the fact that the text has been added is because the config's not properly tuned yet. 

  Tried it, didn't work indeed....

You can store experiments, but it can't pull them by itself. It's not your mod that's not cooperating, Stock KSP lets you select 'collect all' to be added to a custom action group, so you could actually call it a bug in KSP. The same thing goes for command pods, which also can't collect science, but gives you the option to 'collect all' with a custom action group. Didn't work either...

Did discover yet another use for these airlocks, they make out to be perfect rover 'flippers' to flip your vehicle right side up after belly up's. 

Edited April 17, 2018 by LoSBoL

[Guest]

Folks, I think everybody is missing the point. This part lets you add a appendix vermicularis to your ship and therefore is extremely useful.

No seriously though, in my mind this is an adapter first and a crewable part second. The point, to me, seems to be that while you cover your ship/station in medium sized ports to dock all kinds of awesome new ships/station parts, this part can be placed alongside them and keep the aesthetic similarity of 1.25m part that actually provides a berth for a Junior sized ship. So for that reason (alone) it seems to fill a little niche for me!

[Daveroski]

Rescues... Motie style.

 

[El Sancho]

I found this thing absolutely infuriating. It's the size of a regular Clamp-o-tron, and there's nothing to tell you different, so I wasted a truly aggravating amount of time trying to get it to dock with the regular clamp-o-tron before coming here and reading this thread.

I find it seriously annoying that they don't say anything in the description. Really annoying indeed.

[Ernstberth]

On 4/21/2018 at 7:15 PM, El Sancho said:

I found this thing absolutely infuriating. It's the size of a regular Clamp-o-tron, and there's nothing to tell you different, so I wasted a truly aggravating amount of time trying to get it to dock with the regular clamp-o-tron before coming here and reading this thread. 

I find it seriously annoying that they don't say anything in the description. Really annoying indeed. 

Yeah, me too and the next point what is annoying me is that i found it out afer building my new station with only inflatables. now i have to bring adaptors up. 

Edited May 1, 2018 by Vanamonde

[jpinard]

Is this thing rigid enough to connect two medium sized space stations together?

[Loskene]

44 minutes ago, jpinard said:

Is this thing rigid enough to connect two medium sized space stations together?

It's completely rigid, like any other part, the inflatable bit is just flavour text/verisimilitude. Should work fine, just don't accidentally retract them :V

[jpinard]

On 7/25/2019 at 12:38 AM, Loskene said:

It's completely rigid, like any other part, the inflatable bit is just flavour text/verisimilitude. Should work fine, just don't accidentally retract them :V

I tried doing some testing with a girder test rig to make sure I could undock the original side if I needed to, but every time I'd try to undock it the rig setup would break.  In practice does it work where you can leave it attached to either end if both sides  are attached via jr. docking port?

[Krazy_Kerbal]

bump. Why did I not google this before thinking that KSP was going to do something logical. You've been warned, and your lucky if you searched this before assuming.

 

Compatibility. The Inflatable Airlock, when expanded, can dock with Clamp-O-Tron Docking Port Jr. or another Inflatable Airlock.

 

Ok, I looked at the .cfg file and see this was made by Roverdude. Thank you! It's fantastic, I just wished it worked with the Jr. and Normal sized port, so for now, I just edited the .cfg file to change its size to 1, from 0.

Edited November 15, 2021 by Krazy_Kerbal

[Bej Kerman]

On 3/16/2018 at 2:15 AM, klesh said:

Just saw RoverDude posted on Reddit yesterday that it will dock to a docking port jr when the airlock is extended.  I’ll give that a try later on.  

 

Edit:  It's later on, and turns out it works just fine:

 

This would be a cool way to make a compact docking hub that extends to make docking easier, before pulling the craft in. Just a shame the devs decided 'nah, that'd be too helpful'.