1.4.1 & Making History Really Buggy

[s_powers]

I'm actually pretty stunned and very disappointed in the amount of really obvious bugs in 1.4 and 1.4.1. It is almost as if no one even tested the update at all. If they did then they really did the community a disservice by releasing it in this state.

I knew something was horribly wrong when i watched the shambolic live stream launch, but against my better judgement i bought the DLC. I don't have a problem with the DLC itself but the bug testing is mind-blowingly bad.

I really hope Squad and whatever Devs take-two have brought in patch these bug very quickly and they should be very concerned about the state of this release.

So far we had bugs like 

- Off center engines......

- Spacesuit bugs

- Missing KSC building textures such as tracks to vehicle assembly

- disappearing meshes

- camera clipping and misalignment

- Load screen crashes on mission editor

- parts not working correctly

- Hideous aerodynamic effects overhaul.( I see what they are going for but you really have to tune the distance to see the right effect. It renders particles at different distances and looks so disjointed and , again buggy, unpolished and beta,)

The list goes on......

To whomever this concerns, sort it out!

This is a really disturbing sign and i'd hate to have to eventually revert to 1.3.1 and join the 'i told you so' crowd. I expected the production value to go up with a major publisher involved not down!! I know they lost some geniuses from the team but still. It looked like they left things in capable hands. Again very, disappointed and concerned.

KSP Player since late Alpha.

 

[Gargamel]

I'm very surprised at this too. 

Normally updates and such go into pre-release for bug testing, but they seemed to have skipped it this time.  I wonder what the thought process was behind this?

[juanml82]

10 minutes ago, Gargamel said:

I wonder what the thought process was behind this?

Paying loans, probably. Unlike previous patches, Making History means money is getting in.

[Gargamel]

9 minutes ago, juanml82 said:

Paying loans, probably. Unlike previous patches, Making History means money is getting in.

But having to do the job again costs more than getting it right the first time. 

[klesh]

58 minutes ago, s_powers said:

buggy, unpolished and beta

 

Yup, that about sums it up.

[Superfluous J]

36 minutes ago, Gargamel said:

But having to do the job again costs more than getting it right the first time. 

Eventually, sure. But not right away. 

[adsii1970]

41 minutes ago, Gargamel said:

But having to do the job again costs more than getting it right the first time. 

So... what you are saying or recommending is I should wait to update?

[Kerbart]

When 1.0 came out (an incredibly bad decision as the .9 beta was the one and only beta release, there were obviously external factors in play) there was a vaguely similar situation. A radically revised aeromodel that wreaked havoc among the community’s ability to play the game.

But also: the game was updated on a nearly daily basis.

I’m not complaining about what the DLC offers; I think it’s the right price for what’s (on paper) offered.

What is disappointing is the bugfest, especially given the amount of time between 1.3 and 1.4. “But Kerbart, we also had to test and release the Console re-release!” Well, that one is on you, Squad. No one said that Flying Tiger was a good idea and that adventure ended exactly as predicted.

Meanwhile, there’s no reason this release needed to feel as rushed as it felt. Bugs on edge cases are ok. Bugs on regular play... What the # was done in all those months of bug fixing?

[s_powers]

I also think that due to the state of the release it could take them multiple patches, maybe even months to fix most of this stuff.

Like Gargamel said, and another reason i was worried about the update was that there was no pre-release to modders so they could get to work on their mods pre-release (which you would expect given they upgraded unity) and the youtubers where 

given copies with very late notice, i think within 48hrs of release.

I consider Felipe (who left to valve i think) to be a genius dev, but with all due respect it is of my understanding he and the other pre-take two devs where very inexperienced. They did an incredible job all things considered.

So, I really expected take-two to come in with people to polish up stuff like dodgy coding and performance stuff. Instead they come in and make things 10 times worse and take money for it. I'm actually kind of annoyed.

 

[klgraham1013]

1 hour ago, Gargamel said:

I wonder what the thought process was behind this?

Take Two fiscal year?

[Cavscout74]

1 hour ago, s_powers said:

 

This is a really disturbing sign and i'd hate to have to eventually revert to 1.3.1 and join the 'i told you so' crowd. I expected the production value to go up with a major publisher involved not down!! I know they lost some geniuses from the team but still. It looked like they left things in capable hands. Again very, disappointed and concerned.

 

So far I've still been tinkering about once a day on 1.4.1 + DLC for a little bit before getting frustrated & switching to my 1.3.1 backup again.

[Gargamel]

27 minutes ago, adsii1970 said:

So... what you are saying or recommending is I should wait to update?

I am. 

KSP is a known for it's bugs upon each release.  During Alpha and beta, this was expected, as the player base was the test bed.  Squad would take the info and improve the game.  With 1.x they usually did a bug hunt release to a select number of users, and they'd fix all the things they could before full release.  Of course, the player base is general is a bit on the maniacally crazy side, so there were always a number of bugs that would not be found even with the pre-release.   But most of the game breaking or obvious bugs would be found.

But with this one, things like the capsule interior, docking issues, would have been found with the pre-release. 

I'll just wait for 1.4.2 and the DCL .1 releases to happen before moving up.

[panzer1b]

Im actually really glad i waited to get making history until i actually knew what was truly in it.  As much as id like to support the devs, i cant bring myself to buy something thats buggy, unfinished, and doesnt even have all that much in terms of features i care for.  Mission builder isnt my thing as i play sandbox exclusively, and the ONE thing i was really hyped for ended up a dissapointment since i cant easily make my own launchsites (like the woomerang one) using a cfg file and placing them on other planets like Duna or whatnot so i dont have to either cheat craft to destination or use buggy and laggy mods like kerbin constructs.  Parts are nice and all, but 15 bucks for something i can get free in mods with much higher quality and variety just isnt something i consider a good deal (15 bucks is nothing for me, but its the point of spending money on something that released in such a broken state and with so few things i care for).

 

Anyways, if squad (or whoever is developing the game) actually proves to me that they can release something polished, ill buy the expansion, or maybee the next one just to help fund future development.  As it stands, ill vote with my wallet and stick to 1.4.1 which is at least playable (and has all the features i want through mods) even if a few things are buggy (reentry fx being the most obvious one that i just cant understand how this was missed during testing unless NOONE launched a vessel into orbit during testing).

[Gorman]

I have been playing MH for about 6 hours starting a new career mode. I honestly seem to have a different experience to you guys. I haven't noticed anything that stood out to me like a glaring bug. Rockets seem to work, I can get into orbit ok. I see re-entry effects ok. I am on MacOS 10.12.6. What is going on??

[adsii1970]

I waited three months before upgrading to 1.0... guess I will do that here, too...

[RatchetinSpace]

I'm not overwhelmed by bugs. There are issues with re-entry effects but apart from that everything has worked. What problems are people having?

[panzer1b]

11 minutes ago, RatchetinSpace said:

I'm not overwhelmed by bugs. There are issues with re-entry effects but apart from that everything has worked. What problems are people having?

Biggest non fx related thing that stands out to me are a few offcenter parts (as in the attachment node isnt dead center).  I dont have MH, so i cant comment on those parts personally but a few people have mentioned that some of the engines in the parts pack have that problem.  While fixable with the offset tool, its really something that stands out as plain and simply terrible QC and something that should never have been in game when the attachment nodes arent centered so your thrust doesnt go through center of mass/part.

 

Obviously there are ways around it, and with proper CFG edits you can fix it yourself, but it really should never have been allowed to get past quality control in the state its in (look at the new 2.5m jumbo64, if you place it on another 2.5m part it looks a teeny bit offcenter).

Edited March 16, 2018 by panzer1b

[Zeiss Ikon]

I haven't installed 1.4.1 yet, though I do have 1.4.0 installed and have downloaded 1.4.1.  I've purchased and downloaded the DLC (this morning), but haven't installed it yet.  I also haven't had time to play much since it came out (I get a couple hours a week, not several a day like some folks).  I haven't seen anything in 1.4 that I'd identify as a genuine "bug" -- reentry effects actually look like what I'd expect at, say, ionospheric or thermospheric altitudes (where air molecules mostly don't interact with each other because they're so sparse); if they gradually transitioned to the old effects at, say, 35-40 km or so, I'll call that change a big win.  I have tried the new Mk. 1-3 command pod, just long enough to launch and make a trans-Munar insertion -- cheaper, lighter, better than the old Mk. 1-2.

So, I don't see bugs (yet).  Maybe 1.4.1 added some -- I'll find out soon, and if so, I can easily revert to 1.4.0 (the download is still on my HDD).

[klgraham1013]

2 hours ago, Cavscout74 said:

So far I've still been tinkering about once a day on 1.4.1 + DLC for a little bit before getting frustrated & switching to my 1.3.1 backup again.

1.3.1 was a great version and I have no problem sticking with it. 

[Dafni]

1 hour ago, panzer1b said:

Biggest non fx related thing that stands out to me are a few offcenter parts (as in the attachment node isnt dead center).  I dont have MH, so i cant comment on those parts personally but a few people have mentioned that some of the engines in the parts pack have that problem.  While fixable with the offset tool, its really something that stands out as plain and simply terrible QC and something that should never have been in game when the attachment nodes arent centered so your thrust doesnt go through center of mass/part.

 

Obviously there are ways around it, and with proper CFG edits you can fix it yourself, but it really should never have been allowed to get past quality control in the state its in (look at the new 2.5m jumbo64, if you place it on another 2.5m part it looks a teeny bit offcenter).

True. Baffles me how obvious stuff like offcenter nodes can make it into a major release.

 

8 minutes ago, klgraham1013 said:

1.3.1 was a great version and I have no problem sticking with it. 

True, especially considering the huge number of well established mods we have now for that version.

[s_powers]

Can people saying they haven't noticed bugs please stop.

The huge amount of bugs is an objectionable fact and if you don't notice them that is good for you but it relieves pressure on the developers to hurry up and fix things for the rest of us.

 

I would add that i noticed many bugs within the first hour and many more after and i'm in utter disbelief that people whos' job it is to play and make the game didn't notice them. 

Edited March 16, 2018 by s_powers

[Gorman]

Sorry, the other game I play Dwarf Fortress has so many bugs, that KSP looks positively perfect to me 

[panzer1b]

33 minutes ago, Gorman said:

Sorry, the other game I play Dwarf Fortress has so many bugs, that KSP looks positively perfect to me 

What it looks liek is meaningless, the problem is that us older KSP players have actually grown to expect good quality in almost everything squad released, and we have also been very much used to them running an open beta test before release in order to let the community playtest and report bugs that the QC team for whatever reason didnt notice.  There is nothing wrong with bugs, but releasing a new game update without an open beta test period, and ofc release it with a good number of (yeah minor, but still) annoyances which do get noticed quite quickly isnt what id call professional.

If the game was still an indie title, i can excuse bugs because most indie games are made with a rather small dev team with little if any resources to use.  After TT took over, i at least expected some good money put into development, but it seems that not only did they neglect the community, add questionable content (EULA scandal and analytics/spyware anyone), and release something with this many bugs, only to meet some predetermined release date.  I think it was much better when squad ran everything and they never told us of a release date until they really were ready to do so, and they even put the update off a few times from expected because bugs showed up.  Maybe its just me, but id far prefer they delay a product release then push it out with lots of bugs and glitches that make certain things super annoying (its still quite playable, but we have some FX bugs, parts being offcenter, most of the stock missions being badly worded with objectives or plain impossible to complete without knowing whats in their code, ect).

Well, whatever the case, i still have 1.3.1, and well 1.4.1 seems to work for the most part (i dont really use the 2.5m tanks enough to care about the offset tanks, and the reentry fx isnt an issue when i disable reentry fx entirely).  Its not like its a big deal, but id still prefered to see a bit more professionalism and quality after TT took over rather then the mess they did.  Hopefully they learn from these mistakes and dont repeat this in teh future...

[J.Random]

6 hours ago, Kerbart said:

When 1.0 came out (an incredibly bad decision as the .9 beta was the one and only beta release, there were obviously external factors in play) there was a vaguely similar situation. A radically revised aeromodel that wreaked havoc among the community’s ability to play the game.

But also: the game was updated on a nearly daily basis.

You forgot that two month long celebratory dev break during which customers were left hanging with a wonderful memory leak. :D

[Cpt Kerbalkrunch]

I haven't seen all the things you guys have, but I'll take your word for it based on what I've seen myself. The reason I haven't seen any gameplay bugs is that I've been stuck on the mission builder. It's basically the core of the expansion, and probably the only thing that really makes it worth the money. I've got high hopes for it, and I'm really trying to get the hang of it. However, the entire 3rd tutorial is simply missing. The game says there are 3, but I only see 2. At the end of the 2nd it tells you to save and continue on to the next one to learn more advanced techniques; but there is no next one. You can't hit save or continue; you can only hit done. Which ends the tutorials. I've asked in both the mission builder threads, but haven't heard anything yet.

Pretty much everyone is asking why they didn't do more testing and what kind of Q&A did they do, but I keep wondering who did it. From all we've seen and heard, you give this to any serious player and they'll find these things within a day; which is exactly what happened. Giving a preview to YouTubers doesn't mean anything to me. If you're not on this forum I don't consider you part of this community, and I don't really pay attention to what they're doing. This forum, however, is full of serious players. Squad would be wise to make use of some of them for testing new parts and features. And we all would be better off with a more polished product. For now, I'm just waiting to see what the next patch is able to do. And how soon it comes along.